1995 Lumina - Strange Starting and Electrical Problems

[blk95lumina]

1995 Lumina LS 3.1L w/ ~186K mi

For the past several months, my car has had intermittent starting issues that seem to occur more frequently when the weather is cold, and I figured the starter motor and/or solenoid are going out. However, this morning was particularity strange. I should also note I just replaced the battery ~3 months ago and the alternator is putting out ~14+ volts.

This morning was about freezing (32F).
I am able to use the fob to unlock the power locks and the interior dome light is shining nice and bright. When I put the key into the ignition and move forward to the first ignition position, there is no chime, there are no lights on the dash, the fuel pump does not pressurize, and then upon moving the key forward the car does not even try to start. It appears all electrical is dead, even though the power locks work and the dome light is bright. After several attempts, I remove the key and then try to turn on the headlights but there is no chime at all to indicate the lights are on w/o the car running. I step outside the car to see if the headlights are at least dim but there is nothing. All of the sudden as I am standing there, the headlights turn On nice and bright (it is ~8am and day light outside). I then go back inside the car and put the key into the ignition and now I hear the chime, the dash light now turn On, the fuel pump pressurizes, and the car starts up without any hesitation.

My initial thoughts are the anti-theft system or the ignition lock cylinder. However, if that were the case, then why would the headlights not work and then all of the sudden come On and then afterwards the car starts up fine? How are the headlights related to the ignition?

Thoughts and ideas are appreciated for were I should start. That is ideas other than just shotgunning parts such as the starter, lock cylinder, etc.

Thank you.

[maxwedge]

Sounds like bad battery cables or connections to me.

[aleekat]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Sounds like bad battery cables or connections to me.

Ditto

[jeffcoslacker]

Yeah cable/wire connection. Check at battery, and where the jump start terminal is, as well as at the starter and engine ground.

You may have a fusible link primary wire at the starter that has partially failed too. Look at the small wires for any sections that are darkened or feel less rigid than the rest of the wire.

Another way to check this is if you catch it in the act, leave the key on, door open, open the hood, reach down to the wires going to the starter and move them around a bit, see if the affected systems suddenly come to life. You'll hear the ignition chime start, DRLs come on, and probably hear a couple of relays close when the connection is made. If that makes it work, you've either got a bad connection down there or a bad link. Fortunately on the 3.1 they are easy to see/mess with from up top, you don't have to roll under the car to try this.

When links don't burn through completely they can cause problems like this. And everything they supply is affected, while other systems work fine. I'd check all the regular connections first though, before focusing on that.

Why would it act like it did? Well, if this is the problem, the temp that morning was just right to make the link's insulator contract and pull the damaged wire section apart. There might be just enough there to carry a little current, but not enough to operate the systems. Trying to put power to the headlights through a bottlenecked wire creates a lot of heat. The insulator warms up, sags, and the wire strands inside expand and make more contacts. Suddenly the lights come on, and everything is normal again. Until the next time. Same can happen with a weak cable connection, but the mechanism is a little different.

Here's a burned link on a Buick starter that caused similar symptoms. No headlights, no ignition, only specific primary power affected.

[blk95lumina]

Thank you Jeff!
I am just catching up on your post and will look at the wires again this weekend.

Is this the power cable you are referring to?
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,c...,parttype,2501
AIRTEX / WELLS Part # 1J1211R

This past week I inspected and re-torqued the battery connections, inspected the power and ground wires from the battery to the starter, disconnected, wire-brushed, and reconnected the power and ground on the starter. Also disconnected, wire-brushed the terminals and chassis where the main battery ground is connected and a small ground for the headlights I think.

The car starts but still delays for 1-2sec. after turning the key.
I think you are onto something about a bad connection internally. I did not remove the protective cover and tape that binds the power and ground wires together as they are routed down to the starter, so no telling what the power wire looks like under there.

**The car has now started to lose all electrical power while running. Before I did the above steps, I started the car and went to go get the ramps and when I returned, the car suddenly died. I looked inside and it lost all electrical power while running.

This morning as I was driving to work, I felt the car suddenly lose engine power for just a very brief (1sec.) moment and then come back to life. When it did, the dash lights all flashed (air bag, ABS, Brake, Traction, etc.) as though I had just re-started the car. It was really odd but falls inline with the car losing all electrical power while running earlier this week.

I really need to fix the problem before I take it on a longer trip. Maybe I will just replace the entire power cable that runs from the battery to the starter. Funny thing is when I ordered a new starter, the website asked if I wanted a new power cable and I declined b/c the shipping was more than the $5 cable.

Thanks.

[blk95lumina]

Hello.
Can anyone provide the part# for and where I can buy the fusible link at the starter for my '95 Lumina 3.1L?

Are there any other fusible links on a '95 Lumina besides at the starter?

I have searched a few major auto parts sites, called them as well, and called after market manufacturers with no luck.

Thanks.

[blk95lumina]

Looks like I finally found a generic GM fusible link...

Will this work properly for my '95 Lumina 3.1L?
Dorman® 85620 - 14 Gauge GM Fusible Link Wire Carded

http://www.carid.com/dorman/14-gauge...FQsAaQodpUAA6w

Thanks.

[blk95lumina]

Looks like Dorman also makes a 16ga wire for GM. Part No. 85621 What gauge fusible link should I get? Thanks.

[Blue Bowtie]

A typical fuse link is a section of wire 2-3 gauges (AWG) smaller than the conductor it is intended to protect. If the starter power lead is AWG10, install a AWG16 fuse link. If the main wire is AWG8, install a AWG14 link.

If the main circuit wire is connected to a Volkswagen, it doesn't matter since nothing can protect the vehicle wiring harness anyway.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

A typical fuse link is a section of wire 2-3 gauges (AWG) smaller than the conductor it is intended to protect. If the starter power lead is AWG10, install a AWG16 fuse link. If the main wire is AWG8, install a AWG14 link.

Industry Standard is 4 AWG sizes smaller. A 10 AWG circuit would be protected by a 14 AWG fusible link. An 8 AWG size circuit would be protected by a 12 AWG fusible link.

[Tech II]

Agree with Shurkey, on size...length? From what I have read should not exceed 9"....

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Tech II

Agree with Shurkey, on size...length? From what I have read should not exceed 9"....

I'd have said "4 to 6 inches, or however long the OEM fusible link is (was)."

[blk95lumina]

**Update**
Yesterday I looked at the fuse/relay box located on the front driver's side panel under the hood. This box houses fuses and relays for the ignition, headlights, ABS, etc. which are all the components that have been giving me intermittent problems. (see my other post about the ABS and Red Brake light)

I noticed nearly every wire/connector had green oxidation/corrosion on the bottom of the box.

I sprayed out the box with CRC Lectra Clean and compressed air.
Then removed each fuse and relay one at a time, cleaned the contacts on the fuses and relays, sprayed down into each set of contacts in the box with CRC 2-26 Electrical Grade, and blew out with compressed air.

I did the same with the main power post for this box that connects to the battery along with replacing the parking lights and horn fuses which were very badly corroded even up inside the fuse.

I also performed the same cleaning steps for the fuse/relay box on the front passenger side panel under the hood and cleaned another ground near the front passenger side headlight.

I then sealed the top of each box with duct tape.

So far the car starts and runs well and this morning was ~45F. Time will tell whether this did anything. The issues were intermittent, so I need to give it a week or two before I would feel confident.

[Tech II]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech II View Post
Agree with Shurkey, on size...length? From what I have read should not exceed 9"....

I'd have said "4 to 6 inches, or however long the OEM fusible link is (was)."

Or maybe, I was just bragging?

[blk95lumina]

**FIXED**
I have been driving the car every day for the past 2 weeks and have not experienced a single intermittent electrical problem. It may be a pseudo effect but the car feels like it runs better too. It definitely starts faster than ever before.

If you experience multiple electrical issues, take a look at the fuse boxes under the hood and clean per the steps above and you might be surprised and relieved as I was.