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Forced Induction Discuss topics relating to turbochargers, superchargers, and nitrous oxide systems.
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Old 09-01-2006, 01:49 PM   #16
curtis73
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

If you're flexible on engine displacement and target boost range, 6.0 powerstrokes have a Variable vane blower that should be in the junkyards by now. Not cheap, but cheaper than new. There aren't many trims available for that setup but it might be a close enough trim for you.
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Old 09-02-2006, 04:16 AM   #17
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis73
If you're flexible on engine displacement and target boost range, 6.0 powerstrokes have a Variable vane blower that should be in the junkyards by now. Not cheap, but cheaper than new. There aren't many trims available for that setup but it might be a close enough trim for you.
The engine I'm running is an Isuzu 4BD1T, basically a japanese copy of the cummins 4BT at 3.9 litres. I'm in New Zealand where the vast majority of automotive stuff comes from japan (we import their cast-offs and drive them into the ground). American engines are almost non-existant.

A stock variable vane of a 6.0 might reach down to a lower range than my current turbo. But I've recently got a Gt2052V from a 2.5L audi diesel to play with. It's pretty small but the air requirements of a low speed 3.9L and medium-high speed 2.5L aren't too far off.
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:40 PM   #18
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

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Originally Posted by curtis73
Here is diesel tuning in a nutshell (and these are generalizations but they hold true for most traditional turbo diesels)

Since there is no throttle, the intake is open to full atmospheric air all the time. At idle, the injectors are injecting just enough fuel to support idle operation. As you put more "foot" into it, the injector pump injects more fuel. As such, a diesel engine more or less operates between extremely lean at idle to borderline lean at full power. Soot and black smoke is basically unburned fuel that makes it out of the exhaust. Black smoke does not necessarily mean rich mixtures, it can mean late injection, poor efficiency, damaged injectors, or one of several things. But... since we're talking about a later, electronically-controlled diesel, we can rule out some of those things. Under normal operation, a 24v electronic Cummins doesn't belch black smoke thanks to efficient flame decks, accurate timing control, and good fuel atomization.

So, let's assume that the stock setup lets the engine operate between really lean up to a little bit lean at full power. Chips take advantage of the conservative factory tune and inject the extra fuel. Since there is still more air than fuel in the factory tune, giving it more fuel fills the gap without lapsing into black smoke territory. Also involved with that additional fuel is additional heat energy going through the turbo. In the case of some turbos (like early powerstrokes) there is no boost control other than the amount of exhaust, so increasing fuel increases boost. To an extent, in un-controlled turbos adding more fuel adds more air which allows you to add more fuel... etc. Of course you reach an inefficiency point with the turbo/intercooler which limits your streetability.

Other diesels with electronic or mechanical wastegates must be retuned to allow the extra boost or adding more fuel will simply create more black smoke and higher EGTs. For instance in the case of the Duramax you only have a small window to add more fuel at stock boost levels. After about 60hp you have to up the boost to get more air to go along with your extra fuel.

Basically, here's what you need to do. Small upgrades in fuel will give nice boosts to power. Keep EGTs in check and you'll be fine. If its a daily driver only, go ahead and juice it up a bit. An 80 hp chip should do fine on a stock truck. 100hp and more will require a careful eye on a pyrometer installed in the exhaust manifold. If you're going to tow with it, consider a better intercooler, a bigger downpipe, and a large-diameter exhaust to keep EGTs down. As a general rule, if you're going to get one of those switchable tuners that offer three or four HP levels, the hottest settings are fine for occasional street use, but a big no-no for towing. Upgrading intercooler and exhaust typically make the hottest settings fine on the street and OK for occasional light towing.

Its really pretty simple when you think about it. With gas you have to worry about VE and cam timing and all of the mechanics of how the engine ingests air. With diesel, that part is fixed. Its a simple matter of mass air vs. mass fuel. Increase the air and you can increase the fuel. Keep doing it until your pyrometer says stop. Then do things that reduce EGTs like exhaust and intercooler mods and add even more fuel. Your two biggest limiting factors are EGT and reliability of internal parts... and I guarantee you'll reach EGT limits before you even stress the guts of that Cummins. I have a link (on my other computer) to a dyno run of a 5.9 Cummins that makes over 1200 hp and 2131 lb-ft of torque AT THE WHEELS. Not kidding. Many Cummins owners are daily driving 5.9s that make 1200 lb-ft and 600+ hp at the wheels, so don't worry about the stock internals. You have a 360-cubic-inch motor that weighs nearly 1200 lbs. Its built for it
Thanks for all the great advice curtis!


Some other info I gathered is that his truck is actually a 2003 (I think I said 02) inline 6, it has 4" exhaust and a Edge Juice tuner.

What should be the next mods? Injectors, EGT gauge (I think this might come with the edge tuner though), open element filter?

I haven't got to get in the truck and mess with the tuner. I just spoke with him and he said he was only able to boost 25ish psi and his truck was bucking (he was hitting 30ish a week ago. fuel cut, i'd assume?). Anyways, the shop thats been putting the stuff on his truck is suggesting bigger exhaust (4.5 inch), meth injection etc...doesn't seem necessary just yet.


I'm going to see the truck tonight and mess with the tuner. I'm gonna check for boost leaks since hes peaking @ low 20 psi.


P.S. Its an auto tranny

**EDIT: Where can I find bigger injectors?
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Old 09-06-2006, 11:42 AM   #19
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

Update...


Last night, I took a look at the truck and found a few things...

1) oil ontop of the motor (I suspect its coming from the valve covers or pcv valve. Truck has 70k miles on it)
2) When the truck is in race or extreme mode, egts cleared 1000 F easy . It would go up really fast as if it wasnt gonna stop. When he let off, it would go up to about 1200 F and then slowly drop off.
3) We set the boost to 35psi and it would peak at about 24psi. No visible boost leaks. Its sealed really good, so I kinda doubt theres a leak unless 1 of the pipes busted and theres a hole in the bottom that I didnt see.
4) He has a 4" tip and stock turbo back piping (3" ?)


Hes been driving to truck around for a couple weeks and I'm sure hes been beating on it. Anyways, I let him know that his egts are really high and theres something wrong with his truck. @ cruise egts are around 600-700 F and @ cruise or full accel intake temperatures are @ 99 F.

I know that the 4" turbo back exhaust pipes may help his boost issue and EGTs but I kinda think theres something else going on since he was boosting 30ish psi a week ago.

Could those high temps have already damaged the new egt probe?

Anyone know what could be going on?
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:40 PM   #20
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

well, with any tunning ur going to have to make the truck reliable witch means he will have to by a tanny from ATC or some place, but the best tune for a dodge is a SMARTY, and he will dump smoke everyywere and he will notice a big big change in power, i can bet my life he will be happy with this too so trust me on that
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Old 08-19-2011, 07:48 PM   #21
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

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Originally Posted by Brandon Archer View Post
well, with any tunning ur going to have to make the truck reliable witch means he will have to by a tanny from ATC or some place, but the best tune for a dodge is a SMARTY, and he will dump smoke everyywere and he will notice a big big change in power, i can bet my life he will be happy with this too so trust me on that
I can vouch for using Smarty. Good buy.
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:58 AM   #22
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Re: Dodge Cumming Turbo Diesel Tuning...

You need an electric motor!!
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