Dealer fees

[robroy55]

Remember, if you trade in your car, you only pay taxes on the differenct and not the Full price of the new/used car. This may make up you mind as to weather you want to trade in your old car or not depending of the difference figure??\\Good Luck,
Rob Roy

[Dave_s]

Is that true in all states? I will have to look into if this is true in CT.

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

Normally they have a shipping fee from where it was mfg. to the dealer I think this is what your concerned about.

I don't know if it's still called that but years ago that was known as "destination fee". Many dealers tried to tell their customers that , that was a "non-negotiable" charge, as it appeared on the Moroney sticker, but I've seen some dealers remove the charge from the contract in order to sell a vehicle. The customer needs to be firm and insistent, and ready to walk if a dealer refuses.

[Colt Hero]

Any time you buy a car from any place, never include your trade-in into the negotiation of the price for the replacement car. If the salesman asks if you have a trade-in, always say 'no'. You bring the trade-in into the discussion AFTER you've settled on a purchase price. Salespeople don't like this "tactic", but it's the only way to make sure they're not ripping you off (which is what their intent is). When negotiating the price, ask explicitly if there are any "fees" to be tacked on. This overall number, whatever is it, is what you'll be paying. It doesn't matter how many fees there are or what the salesman says they're for, they're just part of the overall price of the vehicle. The car could be $5 with $10,000 worth of fees - it doesn't matter. You're going to be shopping the "out-the-door" price, so don't be concerned about fees. What I do is FAX offers to dealers, and on my form I have very explicit instructions for them to detail any "fees" that they might charge in their counter-offer. This works very well for me and eliminates any surprises. In fact, when I walk into the dealership, it's usually the first time, with an agreed-upon price in hand, ready to buy the vehicle.

[Dave_s]

Colt, you can only do things that way if you are buying new. If you are buying used, you have to look at what they have on the lot. In my case, I was trading in a car that had 156K on it, a missing mirror, a bad dent, and a blown trany. I figure that it would cost be a bunch to put a new trany in. The junk yards by me do not pay for sables. They have plenty of them. My choices were to donate it and get a small tax deduction if any, junk it and get nothing, or try and trade it in. Anything they gave me over $100 bucks was free money from my perspective. My point is that while your plan is good for buying new, every situation can be different. Different strategies will benefit you in different cases.

[Colt Hero]

Well, you're right - what I described is what I do to buy a NEW car (I buy all my cars new ... my motto is 'Buy New and Hold'), but ALL of what I said still applies for a used car purchase. You just don't mention the trade-in during negotiation of the purchase price for the replacement car - whether it's a new or used car (or whether the trade-in car runs like a top, has extensive damage, or is a burned wreck). And you can still ask about fees - for a new or used car - because (as you found out) they can make up a fee for any reason (in order to reel you in by giving you a price that really isn't the final price). You can even shop around the "overall price" (including fees) to other sales locations - although with a used car it's a little harder to compare apples to apples, obviously. You can even use my FAX method with a used car. In fact, if you had done this it would've uncovered the hidden fee (or got you out of paying it in the end).

As far as your trade-in goes, 156K might sound like a lot of miles to you, but my '97 Taurus wagon is about to turn 160K. Yes, the tranny is "soft", but the car is otherwise in very good shape. I'm thinking it's going to go my requisite 200K (making it a success in my opinion). Would I put a replacement tranny into a Ford Taurus/Sable with 156K miles? I dunno. It would depend on the shape of the rest of the car and its history. I would probably do it for my Taurus because I bought it new and it's never taken a hit or had any other problems. Here, I could have my tranny rebuilt for around $1500. And even though the car is probably barely worth that on the open market, I'd probably still do it because $1500 today just isn't a lot of money compared to the cost of another car to replace it. With a replaced tranny, I could probably get another 4 years out of the car (at a miniscule average cost of about $1/day). The other stuff you mentioned (a dent and a mirror) is hardly worth mentioning because it's cosmetic and also because both things could be fixed for as little as $50 (installing the mirror yourself and either ignoring or fixing the dent yourself). That's one of the nice things about owning an older car with problems: it gives you an opportunity to hone your repair skills without having to worry much about the outcome. You can pull a dent out and finish it off with filler and paint and get the satisfaction that you did it yourself. Same with mechanical repairs (although I wouldn't try rebuilding a transmission). You should give it a try. Buying the tools you need is half the fun...

[Dave_s]

I did do something similar. I called around and asked if anyone was willing to match the price (less the fees). One dealership with the same model with similar miles told me not to bother driving out. When you get to the point that you are buying at 2K less than KBB its hard to find room to negotiate. Unfortunately, the brakes on my Taurus (the one with 197K) that I had been driving around died. I think its the master. Not a big deal to replace it, but its not worth the effort. It would have cost me about at least 800 in parts to get the thing back on the road. At some point, enough is enough.

I agree about the tools though. It is fun buying them.

[Colt Hero]

Dave,

Was it a Taurus with 197k or a Sable with 156k? You start out by saying you're looking to get rid of a Taurus with 197k, then you say you're trading in a Sable with 156k. 197k on any Ford or Mercury product is probably at the end of its rope. 156k, however, is another story.

How much was the fee, by the way? I don't see it anywhere in this thread. To me, these "fees" are just a way for dealers to under-advertise the TRUE price of a vehicle. This racket started in the mid-90's with "doc fees" - which were usually small - say $90. But then someone probably figured they might as well jack the number up really high - say $500 to $1000 - so they could undercut the competition's price and get more people in the door. Then they'd lower the boom on the unsuspecting customer and get the REAL price they needed to get for the vehicle.

I don't get excited about "fees". I just make sure I know how much they're worth so that I know what the TRUE asking price is for the vehicle. Back in '02 when I bought my Impala, I actually had a salesman tell me on the phone that his deal was better than another dealership's deal because his "base" price was lower. For example, his dealership was asking $17,500 for the car, but their fees were $600, bringing the TRUE asking price for the vehicle to $18,100. The other dealership wanted $17,700 for their car, with fees totaling $200 (total cost $17,900). The sales guy at the first dealership was adamant that his deal was the better one, but the math didn't say so and I bought the vehicle from the 2nd dealership for $17,900.

Lastly, I've never heard of a dealership dropping the destination charge, but again, that's just another "fee". A dealership might "drop" this fee if your negotiated price is high enough (or poor enough) to absorb it. You have to know what you're doing when you buy a car. That means, RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH, then establish an acceptable "purchase window" price, then negotiate from below the bottom of the window into the window until you have a deal. It might take several dealerships to accomplish your goal, but it can be done. I do it every time (with very little trouble).

[Dave_s]

I replaced the Taurus. I was driving it because of the two cars, its the one that still ran. We will be donating what is left of it to charity after I take all my stuff out of it.

We traded in the sable. Trany would act up and refuse to shift once heated up (changed coolant and VSS. it didn't help). It also needed 4 new tires and new arms for the drivers side rear spindle they got bent somehow). I figured that would cost me about 2K to get it going again. Doesn't seem worth it when all I'm expecting to get is another 50K out of the car. It also had a dead battery, and another code that I can't remember.

The dealer fees were 400. The price comparison was done on an out the door basis. I couldn't find anyone to match the price. I did get an offer for a smaller, no frills car at the same price. I didn't see the point.

[Colt Hero]

Well, good luck with the replacement vehicle - and in the future - watch out for those fees!