[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

By 4G i meant 4G63 if i was to say 4th gen it would have said 4th gen i know what year cars had them and what gens, im not retarded. Hell it even came

I just assumed 4g meant the generation because we refer to them that way (1g, 2g, etc).

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

I understand that you will put DSM's as better than any other car because thats your first choice in cars. Ive driven a 4G powered 1st gen talon it had nice acceleration, handle pretty well but i wasnt impressed with the car. Honda makes more HP per liter na than any mitsu ever has, without the aid of forced induction most of there cars couldnt break 15's from the factory.

Ok, DSMs are SLOW stock. Although some people run high 13s with some free mods. I'm saying they are basically de-turned Evos that have a lot more potential than they are given credit for. Take an Evo motor, give it the smallest turbocharger known to man, and you've got a recipe for potential. Honda may make more hp per liter than Mitsu naturally aspirated, but Mitsu makes more hp per liter total. Why is not using a technology a good thing? I mean all that proves is Honda motor's efficiency and how they went about tuning them. That's an achievement in itself. You can talk all you want about how much hp per liter NA your motor makes but it's not going to matter when another motor has more hp total. In the end you run a certain time, on the drag strip or on the track. And it doesn't really matter how you did it, or what crutch you gave yourself.

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

Also the FQ400 shouldnt be used as a comparo for bone stock cars, if thats the case then fuck it the z-tune skyline would hand the FQ's ass to itself. Hell you want to make it interesting the fastest all motor honda runs a 9.4, whats the fastest all motor mitsu. As for handling yeah awd would be better for corners but that awd also adds extra weight and parasitic drag on the angine since it has to power 2 more wheels.

I compared it to a Murcielago, a $280,000 car. If that's not a fair comparison then what is? Again that's great that Hondas can run those times NA but in the end you run the time you do, no matter what you have to overcome. AWD does have more drivetrain loss but this equals less than the gains from it. There are FWD and AWD DSMs and the AWDs are always at least a second quicker. And when you're racing from a stoplight you can't do a burnout, but the AWDs will always get their 1.6 60 foot. I think people underestimate the results of 4 wheels vs. 2 on the street. DSMs with moderate mods beat Supras with 700 hp on the street because they can't hook up. Look for the King of the Streets video if you want proof. Here's a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU9_wNARC0c&search=dsm The SRT-4 and AWD DSM in this video are evenly matched when they race on the highway. But look what happens when they race from a stop. How many bus lengths did the DSM put on that car just because it had AWD?

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

Il admit all cars have there individual potential, but swapping a GSR into a civic HB can get it into the 13's, and an h22 swap on an accord can get that into the 14's, with about 10 psi, lsd, and some other mods the car can get into the 12's thats a 4 door economy car never ment for racing that can beat alot of v8 and alot of turbo I-4's.

How much does swapping an engine in a Honda cost? And the turbo kit, and the lsd, etc? You don't need any of that, or weight reduction, for a 1g DSM to get into the twelves.

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

I see what your saying but i do disagree alot 700 for the 12's and under 2k for 11's elaborate please id love to see this. Best bang for the buck maybe, reliable maybe for 25kmiles. I had a h22 turbo in a civic running 16psi stock internalls, motor lasted about 35k and the rings went in it. And that was with about 120k already on it. Car was good for low 11's and sold it to a guy for over 5k. Say what you want but alot of people arent going to go out and buy a dsm cause someone told them you can run 11's for under 2k. And i know not everyone is going to buy a honda cause someone said an engine swap is getting it into the 13's NA. This is opinions. Thats what forums are no one is right or wrong in this.

I can't prove this anymore than you can prove you could run 11s with your mods. But the thread I posted has an Import Tuner article where they dyno a 1g and get 110 hp gain from around $200 in mods. If you read the last post in that thread, one of the most respected and knowledgeable DSM gurus confirms the article and says that setup (+ cat-back) is good for 12s. Here's the quote:

"I believe it. I've seen 1Gs run mid 12s with the same mods, and I've posted this before. But instead of the FCD, hacked MAS, and a full exhaust as opposed to just the downpipe. These arent major differences, and the HP numbers they got (most likely from a dynojet) are in line with a mid 12 second car (AWD of course). I might be the only one, but I'm not terribly surprised, even if they did fudge the dynojet a little bit, it's close enough. After all, this is the whole reason we waste our lives with these shitboxes... No one buys a turbo DSM because it's a nice reliable car. We buy them because they tear ass for short money."

And everyone quotes psi like it has something to do with how much your internals, etc can take. 16 psi on one turbo and 16 on another are two completely different things, and produce completely different hp. An amount of psi does not have some universal effect.