[lowsonoma1999]

Originally Posted by sofpan

[font=Arial]So as you said, you believe that my opinion is wrong because I own a 1998 Hyundai. So you mean that the todays hyundais are good cars with quality.
I will say the same that I wrote before:
[font=Arial]Logically, any car industry (let's say Hyundai) if it had quality, it would have it in 1998 and today (as a matter of principle). Often, the quality is better when someone has an older model, because every car industry by the pressure of lower cost, reduce the quality year by year. So, older cars = better cars. In the other hand, when a car factory is new in the game (as HYUNDAI was in 1998) makes better products because the Industry is not known (famous) and want to have costumers. As the years passing, they reduce the quality because they gain fans. Fans have no brain and they buy cars anyway, by the colour, the design, the technical specifications. You can not see the quality when you buy a car. To see the quality, must pass a lot of time, like 6 at least years.

That logic cannot be more wrong. So you are saying Hyundai's quality was as good back when they first started out than it is today? Hyundai's quality back in the day did suck. I have a tech that has been working on Hyundai's since the mid-90s. He used to have to push cars off the transporter, because they would have junk transmissions before they even made it to the dealer lot. And this wasn't a one time thing, he said it happened all the time. So these cars are of better quality than they are today? HA That why JD Powers does an initial quality survey, to see how many issues the customer has with their new car within the first 90 days of ownership, and Hyundai is always up there in the top 5. Back then, Hyundai used a lot of other peoples technology. A lot of engines borrowed from Chrysler and Mitsubishi. Now those companies are looking to Hyundai for their designs. I have a customer with a 2001 Elantra with almost 300k miles on it, almost all of it delivering newspapers. Only thing he has had to replace is maintenance parts, brakes, and maybe a wheel bearing here and there. Few weeks ago he was even commenting that he was still on the original alternator and starter. That car is 7 years old now, and I can say I've never seen an 87 Excel with that many miles. When Honda first started making cars, their quality wasn't up to par either. So were their cars from the 70s of higher quality than todays cars? By your logic, that would be the case. Hyundai's resale value is low because they are still trying to break the image of their cars from the past. There is also quite a large amount of Hyundai rentals. This floods the used car market with 1 or 2 year old cars with 30k miles that are selling for cheap because the rental companies are willing the sell them cheap when they are done with them. You see very few Honda or Toyotal rentals out there. Avis, Budget, Enterprise, Hertz, they all buy parts from me for their cars that they wreck. Avis and Hertz are my two largest customer. Avis along, just at the Indianapols location just took deliver of 219 new Hyundais ready to be put into service. These 200 cars will all of a sudden hit the used car segmant in another year. This is also the reason GM has drastically reduced the number of cars they sell to rental companies. They are wanting to increase the value of their used cars.

Originally Posted by sofpan

The problems I experienced at the decade that I own Accent, are not normal[/u]. Moreover, they are not normal because the service of Hyundai in my country is really expensive and most of all is more expensive than other, more prestigeus brands (OPEL, HONDA, etc). And even if the high cost of service is a theme of the Greek Authorised Dealer, the Hondai Motor Company must have an opinion and a power over it. Because if you are not agree with me on this, then for you is logical Hyundai Motors to sell globally cars of low cost and then the Dealers in every country to retain high cost of auto parts and work, so the Hyundai owners to have a high (in absolute number and comparable to other brands) maintenance cost over the years.
Is it OK with you? And Hyundai Motors have nothing to do with this? Because for me it's not OK. It doesn't seems to me logical. To have the dealers to destroy (with their high costs) the image that Hyundai Motors tries to build globally.
And the high cost of the parts, it can't be a matter between Greece's and Korea's governments as you said, because I say again, auto parts from other brands and countries are cheaper (even if they are from more prestigeus brands, from countries like Japan or Germany). So the between countries agreements and the taxes that imposed, IS NOT A EXCUSE.

Again, this is going to be different in every country. I wouldn't necessary blame Hyundai, unless Hyundai just says, "oh, let's charge the people of Greece more for parts, just because we can." Here in the US, Hyundai parts are cheaper in price than most all the other car companies out there. Almost all air filters sell for $13.12. There are a few that are $13.32. According to my Honda dealer, all Honda air filters are $25.00. That's about twice, just for a simple air filter. And there aren't any import taxes there, since more than likely the Honda part is made here in the US. And buying stuff for the Toyotas and Honda's I've owned, I do know that I have paid more for parts from them than I would for a Hyundai.

Originally Posted by sofpan

[font=Arial]Finally, how can I know that these that you told that you also own a Toyota and a Honda, and you find the Hyundai better than those japanese cars? How can I know that you are telling the truth?

I owned a '90 Honda CRX Si. I drove about 50 minutes each way to work, so I bought it to save on gas. Didn't save me that much, because I dumped more money into that car than any car that I've ever owned. Bought a 2003 Sonata LX in April of 2003 for my wife's birthday. She drove about 45 minutes each way to work, thus leading to the 100k miles she put on it in 3 years. We then built a house and moved a little closer to her work, cut her drive down to about 30-35 minutes. Traded it in on a 2006 GMC Envoy because she wanted 4wd and something bigger. Well, after putting 21k miles on it in 7 months, I bought a low mileage 96 Accord, just to save gas. 17mpg in the Envoy was expensive. And referring to that Hyundai's don't get the fuel economy that they advertise. Yeah, my Envoy is rated 21mpg on the highway, and it gets 17 on the highway, and much less in the city. It's the same way with all car companies. The NTSB didn't change the way they rated fuel economy until 2008, where they tested in more real world conditions. This took a hit on every car manufacturer out there because the rated fuel economy went down on every car on the road. Back on my point, I owned the '96 Accord for about 8 months before my in-laws gave us their '98 Camry. The Accord needed a lot of work, but I never got around to fixing any of it. It got her from point A to B. ABS didn't work, struts were soft and noisy, oil leaks, sunroof sometimes worked, sometimes didn't, same with windows and radio, transmission had some super hard shifts. The Camry I was given needed a lot of work as well, but not as much as the Honda, so I kept it, and sold the Honda. PLus the Camry had leather, and all the goodies. But still again, had to replace all the struts and mounts, the leather interior is coming apart, hard shifts, tensioner spring for the timing belt was weak, even though it was changed with the timing belt at 60k miles, valve cover gasket leaking, sunroof doesn't work. All this is in a 1998, same as yours, with the about the same mileage. So, do I go around saying Toyotas are pieces of s**t because my car has tons of problems? No, I don't. Why? Because it's a 10 year old car. Things get weak over time, and they fail. Is this Camry of higher quality than a new one, I doubt it. Will it last another 100k miles? I doubt it. That is why I plan on buying a 2009 Sonata in the spring for my wife to drive. Why? Because I already had one Sonata last 100k miles without a single issue, and I don't feel like spending a ton of money on this 10 year old one. In a couple of years, I'm sure the cost of repairs will be more than what a new car payment would be.

I am now done with this thread and listening to this nonsense. Go to another forum and talk down on Hyundai and praise Honda and Toyota for the superior car that you think they make. BTW, I have another customer with a 2006 Azera. No problems with his car yet, but he loves making fun of his next door neighbor because his 2007 Toyota Camry has had the transmission replaced in it twice now, and spends just about as much time in the shop as he gets to drive it. Yet, his poorer quality Hyundai as you see it, only sees the dealership for oil changes. I hear this story every time he comes in.