[MikeMan]

I'm with Zgringo on this one guys. Its not the best idea for Z newbies, but for someone with the know how (or the cash) its probably a better idea than a TT swap. Also, apologies in advance for the huge post.

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

Because it makes alot more sense.

In what sense of the word sense?
People have called me crazy (and probably still do) for my VG30DE swap, but I now have an engine that (when I've thrown a few more thousand at it) will kill 96.34% of VG30ETs out there.

The one thing that most car enthusiasts don't consider is the torque (and hence power) curve. Everyone I speak to just looks at peak torque (and power) output. The real judge of an engine's performance is the area under that curve. A flatter curve means more area. I would prefer to have a very flat power curve peaking at 300hp than a very steep curve peaking at 400hp. Fuck the bragging rights, this is my real personal opinion.

This is of course entirely subjective (as I have stated its my own personal desire), so if anyone wants to argue with me over this, get fucked.

As for whether or not a custom swap is worth the money, that again is entirely subjective.

I don't know where you are getting your Z32 TT clips from but you are getting ripped off. Importers can get them for less than $1500. And I doubt anyone is going to sell you a clean low mileage front end off a late model Q45 for less than that.

Yeah real objective here. Comparing the importer's cost on a Z32 clip (which is obviously going to be substantially less than what the consumer would get it for) to the consumer cost on a 'low milage' 'late model' Q45 clip (which is probably going to be the most expensive option for the swap). What are you doing wasting your time on these message boards? You should be in politics.

All things being even, you should be comparing the average consumer cost on a 'low milage' z32 clip, with the consumer cost on a 'low milage' 1990-1996 Q45 (seeing as the 'late model' Q45 has the VK45DE). Not to mention other Nissan and Infiniti cars also have the VH45DE, which you may get a clip for cheaper.

Not having ever been to the united states, I would not have a fucking clue as to what price they both go for over there, so I am not going to comment on the 'revised' costs to the consumer.

Again, I don't know where you are getting your parts but you are getting ripped off. Check out z1motorsports.com, and their basic power package to get you to a stage 3 Z32 TT. $1100 bucks shipped. Plus the cost of the clip that we didn't get ripped off on and you got a hell of alot less then you are quoting here.

Ok, going off the consumer cost of the clip which I'd say starting price of $1500 (and I doubt that that engine would be producing the 300hp it was born with) and adding on that $1100 for the package, we still haven't made the $4400 Zgringo was estimating. However, considering we are talking about a newbie installing these, we also have to consider the labour costs of installing the TT engine (which Zgringo forgot about). Getting closer.
Now even if we take the highest hp figure quoted on z1motorsports (which is no doubt going to be at least be slightly inflated to increase sales) of 350rwhp, taking into account a 20% drivetrain loss, we're looking at around 437hp. Not only do I call bullshit on this one, but we're still less than that 450hp we were aiming for yeah?

So in this case we'll add a bit to make your numbers more realistic and keeping in mind that while the TT swap is fairly easy as swaps go because the engine was designed to be in the car, 96.34% of people will have to source an outside shop to swap the VH, and we are over double the VGs number and the VG is a turbo and thus can be made to make more power alot easier. Because this is not a car the VH was meant to be in you'll have to fab your own exhaust and thats not too bad however, I think the tuning world is still waiting on the fab your own headers at home kit. Not to mention you have to get another 1300 rpms out of the VH to make that 450hp.

I miss your logic here. the VG30DETT is indeed a turbo, but when we're at the limit of the injectors and street fuel, I fail to see how its easier to make more power. We're going to have to start changing the pistons to lower compression if we want to increase the boost but keep running street fuel, which is what we're going to have to do to the VH45DE to make it turbo/supercharged anyway.

My exhaust fabrication cost me $2000 AUD (probably about $1500 USD) and it was apparently the hardest headers the exhaust place has ever had to make. Now, considering that they are tuned-length headers (the single most effective power gain for a naturally aspirated car apart from turbos or nitrous) we've also scored about 20-50 more ponies for the VH45DE (depending on other factors like cam overlap, the design of the headers etc.). I doubt the headers would have been as hard to make as my set either, considering the VH45DE and the VG30DETT would have around the same width (and hence roughly the same engine bay clearance.)

Even if we had to change the rev limiter (or remove it) I again fail to see your point. I really doubt that we're going to get any substantial valve float 1300rpm more than stock. Even if we do, we'd change the valve springs (and of course while we're there, get some more aggressive cams. You cant argue with your own reasoning. )

And I would really like to see you run that 10psi of boost on 10.5:1 compression for more than a half hour, VH factory forged bits not withstanding. That and I dont' see how you are going to be able to make a custom set of headers for the VH in the Z32 and custom 3" exhaust plus all the supercharging work for 1500. So with the supercharger ruled out and a full exhaust system and intake done you got what you can do with a NA engine? Underdrive pulley? Changing the oil? And you are already far past the VG in price without anywhere really left to go.

You have a point here. If we wanted to supercharge it, we're looking at either race fuel (or beyond) or changing the pistons. A decomp plate would probably work just as well though, and cost us quite a bit less. Regardless, we're going to have to change the VG30DETT's pistons or whatnot if we want to run more than 15psi at stock TT compression anyway.

They wouldn't save, and dropping this much cash to cut 100 pounds on a car that is over 3000lbs is somewhat of a drop in the bucket. Yeah you would see an improvement, just as you would if you spent all this money on other things.

As I've pointed out, its probably not as much money as you claim. Regardless, if may cost a bit more but overall its probably going to give a much better torque curve, with more room for performance mods later.

After you've changed the pistons, if you had a VH45DETT and a VG30DETT next to each other, exactly the same mods on each, the VH is obviously going to decimate the VG30DETT. A little bit more initial outlay, and you've got yourself a more efficient engine and a better base horsepower to start building on. This was my reasoning on the VG30DE swap in my Z31 and I still stand by it.

Which rules out 96.34% of the human race and just about everyone here. And if you can do all this by yourself then I direct you here

Thats fair enough. Its just another option to consider. He isn't telling everyone to go out and do it, he's just saying 'hey, heres an idea, you can decide if you want to do it or not.'

Like a VH swap for example.

Financially, even a TT swap is a stupid idea when you can trade in a NA for TT for less money. Some things are more important than money though.

Yep, hope you like my stock USDM tail lights.

My stock Z31 taillights look better as I'm sure lltz will agree.

Don't take this as a flame, I'm just not going to stand by while people try and put Zgringo down for what I consider a reasonable idea for at least a few enthusiasts out there.

Cheers,
-Mike