put 10k in either both of those cars, which will be faster?

i say the 240sx, since i have one :flipa:

to be honest with you, it would still be about the same. you can get a turbo kit for both, and strenghten internals for 10K.

damn... and you have a 240sx too... haha, j/p, more input please

I'd say it depends who's working on the cars..

say NISMO was working on the 240, and MUGEN was working on the integra....

front wheel drive vs rear wheel in a drag race?

240sx no doubt about it...just control your tire slippage :-P

well the 240 will definitly have the poewr advantage. but the integra would have a weight advantage. you don't see many super fast 240's out there. they usually run around 13 to 12 second 1/4 miles. even though that is still fast, its not as fast as you can get most hondas. like for example. my friend knows a guy who put a stock gs-r motor into a hatchback civic and he ran a 13.9 now thats around 6K right there total now he still has 4K left over for a turbo. with that you will have one fast ass honda. it won't be very balanced but it will still be a fast ass dragster. now if you put the same money into a 240. you can run about the same time, but the differnce is, it will be alot more balanced plus ours is a RWD. hmmmmm now that i think about it, it will be about the same. i've seen a video of a turboed KA (usdm 240 engine) take down a turboed GS-R powered civic hatch from a roll. hmmmmmmm

I'm unsure of what the original poster's intention of speed... But putting a b18c1(gs-r) into a civic hatch wouldn't cost 6k.... it'd cost maybe 4g's at most if you do the work yourself. If the car was to be strictly a drag racer, I'd rather have a boosted H22A in the hatch. Yes, it will have horrible weight balance, but she'll be fast! Oh yea.. I don't think the gs-r motor would throw the weight balance too off... so it could have possible handling capabilities... Oh yea, a hatch isn't an integra so I don't know..

The red top sr20det front clip costs something like 5g's right? I think the motor swap itself nets a low to mid 14 second car. That leaves you with 5g's to work with.. LSD, some tires, brake pads, shocks, struts, and springs, and some motor upgrades and you'll have what.. a mid 13 second 240 with some prowess in the twisties?

It depends on what the 10k was put toward. If one owner spent 10 on the drivetrain, and the other owner put on a 10k paint job then its a no brainer.

lol.... c'mon now...

I say the 240. almost like 420!

Originally posted by fatninja19
a hatch isn't an integra

:D yes it is. integras (cept the 4 doors) are all considered hatchbacks...cuz...they have a h/b (3rd gens).

as for the arguement at hand...it could go either way really. u could jus drop a vtec head on that ls block an then build it a bit an turbo the motor an BAM ur into 12's no problem. i dun't really kno much bout nissan's but i kno not to underestimate how quickc they can be for not too much money either. i'd say really jus depends on wut u wanted to drive in the end...

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00

:D yes it is. integras (cept the 4 doors) are all considered hatchbacks...cuz...they have a h/b (3rd gens).



AAAAHHHHaweiof japoeifj aweoifj0-23u8qu34iq34j asdlkfj a....... I meant a civic hatch isn't really an integra....:p

well of course i was just rambling becusae i really had no right answer to the question. hehe so i just babbled about anything that i can think off. and a red top SR is not 5 K. you can get the whole swap done in queens with a front mounted intercooler for 4K. then you got another 6 grand left over for a larger turbo and etc, then bam 12 seconds easy. becusae a red top on a stock turbo with intake, exhuast, front mounted intercooler, running on 10psi is a already a 13 second car.

Originally posted by Fliquer
It depends on what the 10k was put toward. If one owner spent 10 on the drivetrain, and the other owner put on a 10k paint job then its a no brainer.

Hey now... How about a 747 wing/spoiler, bodykit, neon lights, and some stickers(i.e. GTR, TypeR, SpecV, TypeS), now that's going to be one hella fast car.

I think 240 is clearly the winner here, RWD does makes a big diff.

Originally posted by fatninja19
That leaves you with 5g's to work with.. LSD, some tires, brake pads, shocks, struts, and springs, and some motor upgrades and you'll have what.. a mid 13 second 240 with some prowess in the twisties?
why would you spend money on tires, brake pads, shocks, struts, and springs if you were going for speed in a 1/4 mile? MAYBE tires if you had a lot of power and needed traction fast....

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00

:D yes it is. integras (cept the 4 doors) are all considered hatchbacks...cuz...they have a h/b (3rd gens).


ALL generations of integras have a h/b

Originally posted by TatII
well of course i was just rambling becusae i really had no right answer to the question. hehe so i just babbled about anything that i can think off. and a red top SR is not 5 K. you can get the whole swap done in queens with a front mounted intercooler for 4K. then you got another 6 grand left over for a larger turbo and etc, then bam 12 seconds easy. becusae a red top on a stock turbo with intake, exhuast, front mounted intercooler, running on 10psi is a already a 13 second car.

WOW!!! Only 4k for the whole swap done and FMIC?? Is that including labor?? Holy shit man!! That's a good ass deal!! Last time I seriously looked into sr20det powered 240's... The cheapest shop I found around Southern CA with a good rep would end up costing me about 7g's with a FMIC!! Dang.. That's a good deal.... shoot.. then the 240 wins for sure if you live in Queens!




Originally posted by 90gs

why would you spend money on tires, brake pads, shocks, struts, and springs if you were going for speed in a 1/4 mile? MAYBE tires if you had a lot of power and needed traction fast....

First of all, you never stated if you were only referring to only 1/4 mile or an all around car. Second of all, you need suspension to help you launch... suspension exists also in drag cars, ya know? And lastly, you asnwered your own question... Does it take a lot of power to propel a 240 or a Integra into 12's or 13's, much less any car? Yes... And would you need traction FAST if you had a lot of power and would like to run a decent et?? Why of course.... Common sense, man.

yea.. still dont need the brake pads, LSD, or springs

Back to topic...

It was in an article in Sport Compact Car about 2 months ago, where they had this girl from Houston running mid-11's with her stock-looking Civic hatch.

The motor she was running in the hatch was a b18a (DOHC, non-VTEC). The motor was internally stock except for a blockguard to strengthen the cylinder walls, which doesn't change the internals mechanically.

The turbo set-up she had on there was basically a cobbled-up piece her and her boyfriend put together.

The same motor is the one running stock in the 1994 LS the original poster mentioned. There are some circles in the Honda world that believe that this motor is best for turbo-charged applications because of several things:

1) Stock, it does not have nearly as high a compression ratio as the VTEC motors have, so you can boost higher without changing internals.

2) It does not have the exhaust overlap the VTEC motors have, which in a forced-induction motor is never a good thing, because it can potentially blow the forced air right through the cylinder to the exhaust during overlap. This is why most pro/semi-pro Honda racers with all-out drag cars normally turn VTEC off on their race-cars.

3) Replacement/upgrade parts are a dime-a-dozen. This is important, especially in the volatile world of forced-induction.

I have also seen a video of a civic equipped with the same motor keeping-up with a 9-second Viper. The Civic in itself was a low 10-second, street-legal car (at least in TX).

As for the 240, I have seen sr20det motors running as low as 1800 dollars. I guess with that in mind with the 10-grand, you can potentially swap in the sr motor for about 4-grand (including labor and parts) and easily have a 14-second car without upgrades. spending about another thousand could get you low 13's/high 12's (potentially). But, with the examples I've shown above, you can also potentially find the best turbo kit and combine that with a very knowledgeable tuner for about 3-4Ks, and have potentially a 12-second car off-the-bat. That leaves about 1-2Ks for supension upgrades and other stuff.

What about the other 5000? Well, you can also use this money for upgrades like engine-management, boost controllers, stuff like that. Remember, a good turbo-kit normally comes with these things, whereas the sr20 doesn't. You can also save some of this money for parts in case anything breaks. Now, who do you think would have an advantage in parts availabilty and price? Maybe in Japan, you'd be able to find parts for the sr20 cheaper, but DEFINITELY not in the US.

That's my dissertation folks...

I SAY THE INTEGRA B/C I'M SOMEWHAT BIAS TO THE HONDA FAMILY AND I KNOW THAT THESE 2 CARS ARE DIFFERENT BUT LOOK AT WHAT THE OLD ONE (LARRY) DID TO A CIVIC HATCH FOR ABOUT 6K.... CAN U SAY 11.04 @134 MPH ( http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/22838/index.html ).....THAT'S STILL WITH 4K LEFT FOR TWEEKING AND MISC

Originally posted by 90gs
yea.. still dont need the brake pads, LSD, or springs

of course you still need a LSD. LSD helps you launch soo much better, esp during hard shifts, it stops all the power from slipping away by elimating that tire chirp when you shift hard, and the would just thrust forward. plus if your running over 300hp, and not have a limited slip, your open diff would heat up soo much it would just self destruct. it's happend to a friend of my boy's mr2.

oh oops i didnt realize a LSD was a limited slip differential, someone i asked a while ago said that LSD was a type of transmission... if i had realized you were talking about limited slip differential i wouldnt have disagreed, i disagreed because i thought you were talking about a new transmission... wow things make more sense now lol

The integra driver's gonna get his ass handed to him:p

Aren't there drag specific springs for FWD cars? Because I know there are for RWD cars.... You may also want upgraded brakes if you're planning on doing some 12 second passes(or faster).


And I don't think I recall seeing the orginal poster specify whether the cars would be used strictly for drag racing or what....

Alright, no one seems to have significantly touched on the costs for the 240, so I will take the awesome responsibility;)

SCC may have made a fast Honda, but they made a 240SX for 7k with 276 rear wheel horsepower...
the weight transfer isn't even comparable with front wheel drive. why do you think the NHRA (I think that's what the national drag thing is called) made the front wheel drive and rear wheel drive classes seperate. It's because the FWD cars would NEVER win over the RWD cars in the very final races.
Anyway, compare that 276 rwhp SR20DET with 3k extra cash in it with a honda engine... i'm not extremely familiar with honda and i'm not really into honda, but you don't see me caps locking all of my writing and incessently stating how I love nissan.
Anyway, you can pay 10k for the best, or you can pay 10k for crap...
If you get the best in both, the Nissan will come out on top always just because of the fact that it is RWD...
Until you've driven RWD and honestly have experienced the different in weight transfer, then please don't go off bantering about how it's not that much of a difference, because that's a blatant lie.
Anyway, don't hate, just accept the facts.
Also, there are 10 second 240SX's out there with the USDM engine, better than any 12 second SR20DET in the drag strip... Different purposes... I have never seen a 10 second Honda Civic, and I would like to be proved otherwise if there actually is one, but please don't just quote numbers, sent a link to a video.

Originally posted by S14Kyle
I have never seen a 10 second Honda Civic, and I would like to be proved otherwise if there actually is one, but please don't just quote numbers, sent a link to a video.

As you wish...

First off, the Viper he's gonna race:
http://www.house-of-power.com/images/albert.mpg

Him running this Viper:
http://www.cheesefrog.com/frog/cheezevsal.mpg

His car and mods:
http://www.vwdov.ca/forum/showthread.php?threadid=12840

Also, we have couple of resident ten-second Honda drivers on this board (hybridsol, dblovrhedcamron). As a matter of fact a while back, their CRX ran HemiGeorge's 10.1 second Hemi 'Cuda and beat it. Also hybrid's Del Sol and camron's Integra both have heavier bodies than a Civic hatch.

P.S.: I have never seen a documented ten-second, street-legal 240SX/Silvia/180SX run. Why don't you direct me to some videos?

Edit: In reference to my previous post, how much would the parts cost for the SR20DET? Since you seem willing to educate us.

Originally posted by 90gs
oh oops i didnt realize a LSD was a limited slip differential, someone i asked a while ago said that LSD was a type of transmission... if i had realized you were talking about limited slip differential i wouldnt have disagreed, i disagreed because i thought you were talking about a new transmission... wow things make more sense now lol

uh...lsd is a new transmission...:D an i knew they all came in a h/b form...blah blah blah :hehehe:

kyle...blu civic types in caps cuz he's at work. read his signature...its not outta ignorance...its jus wut he has to do at work i guess so thats not even a topic...

as for 10 second civics...u wanna see an 9 second vic? look up the name jojo callos or ed bergenholtz. u wanna see an 8 second vic? look up the name stephan papadakis. lets see ur 8-9 second 240's?

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00

as for 10 second civics...u wanna see an 9 second vic? look up the name jojo callos or ed bergenholtz. u wanna see an 8 second vic? look up the name stephan papadakis. lets see ur 8-9 second 240's?

Easy KrN...those are all basically dedicated drag cars...I was looking for street-going cars. There is the HKS drag 180SX that run's low sevens...but wait...it's powered by a Skyline motor...

heres a link to jay's 240. he run's 10's
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t89763.html

I think the more relevant facts to present here are ones that cover the budget given, not high dollar track dedicated cars.


S14Kyle: Does that 7k budget for the 276 rwhp 240 cover the cost of the car itself? And can you also give the specs and parts of the 240?

Originally posted by carrrnuttt


Easy KrN...those are all basically dedicated drag cars...I was looking for street-going cars. There is the HKS drag 180SX that run's low sevens...but wait...it's powered by a Skyline motor...

ah...aite...lol...still...:D

Originally posted by TatII
heres a link to jay's 240. he run's 10's
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t89763.html

Not doubting that there are 10-sec 240s out there...just want to know if there are any street-legal ones.

In the vid, it says that the 240 has about 390WHP. I know of S2000s that are at low high/low 12's with that much WHP, and they weigh approximately the same (2600/2800LBS). I doubt that it's a ten-sec car with "only" that much HP.

Besides, the video didn't really prove anything. It was just basically the car goofing-off. I wanna see a run.

theres videos of him running at the track. all the people in the 240 community knows of him. i'll ask around for his videos.

why would you need an sr in a 240? turbo the ka, cost you about 3 g's and you can do it yourself. you have more torque and wider power range. there are some ka's running 10's, very few sr's running 10's and it would cost a shitload amount of money.

only hard thing about that is you would need a very low milage ka, and it would probably have to be a dohc.

is it really easier to get a KA into 10's?

If the KA is better than why does Nissan only sell S15's with SR's?

I heard the whole thing is debatable i really don't know much about the Pro's and Con's.

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
is it really easier to get a KA into 10's?

If the KA is better than why does Nissan only sell S15's with SR's?

I heard the whole thing is debatable i really don't know much about the Pro's and Con's.

yea it's a debatable topic, but with the same money you can get a ka faster. ka's better for dragging and sr's better for an all-around easier to drive car.

the ka has higher displacement (sr is 2.0L and ka is 2.4L). i don't know why nissan didn't sell ka-t's... a ka-t is faster than a stock sr.

ka-t 1/4 is 13.8 and costs $3000 (if you have an engine) and is easy to install
stock sr is 14.5 and costs at the very least $5000 and requires an engine swap

then with all the other upgrades and mods you can do the ka-t would kill an sr...

if you really want to go fast get an rb25 or rb26, there was one an ebay that ran 9's...

bahhhhhh

all this talk of swapping in a Sr20DET


give me the KA24DET!!!

10k into a KA24DE and it will work just about any honda with 10k invested.....

point being it has more torque and all throught out the power band


and if ur just comparing apples to apples.... the KA24 is a 2.4L engine which has more liters then any 4 banger honda..... so on a turbo application the higher displacement engine has more potential for HP on the same parts and a quicker turbo spool....

240sx hands down.......

also someone said you don't see a lot of fast drag nissans....... thats because most people do not drag race them.... and someone said hondas are faster




now let us not forget the HKS 180sx(240sx) that I believe has a fastest run of 7.012 or something like that..... a real low 7...



any hondas running in the 7's?

Originally posted by SR20DETpower
also someone said you don't see a lot of fast drag nissans....... thats because most people do not drag race them.... and someone said hondas are faster

now let us not forget the HKS 180sx(240sx) that I believe has a fastest run of 7.012 or something like that..... a real low 7...

any hondas running in the 7's?

yea i think that had an rb26 in it. BEAST.

i've never heard of a honda that achieved anywhere near a 7 flat.

here we go

1/4 mi 7.184

http://www.nhraimport.com/2003/drivers/T_Kawasaki.html

1100hp

0-60 in less than 1 sec.

Originally posted by fatninja19
S14Kyle: Does that 7k budget for the 276 rwhp 240 cover the cost of the car itself? And can you also give the specs and parts of the 240?

Yes

Originally posted by S14Kyle


Yes


Nice.. But can you also give the specs and parts of the car please?



And 0-60 in less than a sec is cool...




When will the stock trans from a 240 need reinforcement before blowing up? How about the rearend?

Originally posted by mynismo


yea i think that had an rb26 in it. BEAST.

i've never heard of a honda that achieved anywhere near a 7 flat.

:rolleyes:

This is why I asked for street cars. First off, just like I told KrNxRaCer00, don't mention the race-dedicated cars. If you wanna go that route, the low eight-second FWD car of Stephan Papadakis runs a 4-banger that originally came in an economy-class Honda, and wasn't originally turbo-charged. Also, his crew's efforts, compared to HKS's with the 180SX, is still technically amateur. The 180SX is running a Skyline motor...a motor that came with a turbo stock. The 180 is also a no-money-spared project from a world-class company.

Now, if you want to compare apples-to-apples, you can check-out Adam Saruwatari's drag NSX (http://www.carandmodel.com/featuredcar/4.php), which is similar, as it runs a 6-cylinder configuration, and is a dedicated drag-car. It runs low 7's, and has a motor that originally came with the car configuration. The NSX motor, we all know, was never configured for turbo.

There are a lot of documented, street-legal, 10-second Civics in the U.S., of which I showed you one example in the video. Show me your street-legal, ten-second Silvia/180SX/240SX here in the U.S..

Not that I don't believe that there are those cars, it's just not as numerous as Hondas, because of initial cost, and cost of maintenance...which was the point I was making. The 276WHP 240 that somebody mentioned that cost 7grand...I can potentially create a 300-400WHP Civic for that much money...if the money is distributed correctly with no concern for the looks of the car. Hell, hybridsol's/dblovrhdcamron's low 10's-high 9's CRX cost them about 4grand.

Originally posted by carrrnuttt

There are a lot of documented, street-legal, 10-second Civics in the U.S., of which I showed you one example in the video. Show me your street-legal, ten-second Silvia/180SX/240SX here in the U.S...

Very very true, have a very good friend who drives one:)
As for 240s here...One of those near me too. If you guys remember an old member/moderator here and back at PH, her name was Ryuuko, when she used to come over and chill/race with me, I think one of her friends had a 240 and he claimed to be in the 10s. I could be wrong on that though, not positive they were friends, but they both used to come over and race. Either way, both my friend's civic and that 240 are VERY impressive cars

well like us 240 guys said. the 2 guys that have 10 second 240's street legal are DUI and JAY. they both run turbo KA's i believe. plus i would definitly know about DUI because Anthony from Realnissan knows him pretty well. and i was just with Anthony last weekend and i was talkin to him about 10 second 240's. and he said that DUI's is a 10 second one.

Originally posted by Self


Very very true, have a very good friend who drives one:)
As for 240s here...One of those near me too. If you guys remember an old member/moderator here and back at PH, her name was Ryuuko, when she used to come over and chill/race with me, I think one of her friends had a 240 and he claimed to be in the 10s. I could be wrong on that though, not positive they were friends, but they both used to come over and race. Either way, both my friend's civic and that 240 are VERY impressive cars

Hah! Guess I spoke to soon...Was just talking to a buddy on AIM who knows the guy with the "10 second" 240...He lied about being in the 10s. It's a 12 second car, still fast of course, but a long ways off from 10s.

Originally posted by carrrnuttt


:rolleyes:

This is why I asked for street cars. First off, just like I told KrNxRaCer00, don't mention the race-dedicated cars. If you wanna go that route, the low eight-second FWD car of Stephan Papadakis runs a 4-banger that originally came in an economy-class Honda, and wasn't originally turbo-charged. Also, his crew's efforts, compared to HKS's with the 180SX, is still technically amateur. The 180SX is running a Skyline motor...a motor that came with a turbo stock. The 180 is also a no-money-spared project from a world-class company.

Now, if you want to compare apples-to-apples, you can check-out Adam Saruwatari's drag NSX (http://www.carandmodel.com/featuredcar/4.php), which is similar, as it runs a 6-cylinder configuration, and is a dedicated drag-car. It runs low 7's, and has a motor that originally came with the car configuration. The NSX motor, we all know, was never configured for turbo.

There are a lot of documented, street-legal, 10-second Civics in the U.S., of which I showed you one example in the video. Show me your street-legal, ten-second Silvia/180SX/240SX here in the U.S..
there was one on ebay that claimed to run 9's on street tires with like 800hp, but it was powered by a skyline motor. rb26tt i think. but it was street legal.


Not that I don't believe that there are those cars, it's just not as numerous as Hondas, because of initial cost, and cost of maintenance...which was the point I was making. The 276WHP 240 that somebody mentioned that cost 7grand...I can potentially create a 300-400WHP Civic for that much money...if the money is distributed correctly with no concern for the looks of the car. Hell, hybridsol's/dblovrhdcamron's low 10's-high 9's CRX cost them about 4grand.
i don't know much about hondas. how much would it cost to get one in the 10's? for a 240 it would probably be around 16-18 g's. you can pickup a 12 sec sr on ebay for 8 g's.

Originally posted by mynismo

there was one on ebay that claimed to run 9's on street tires with like 800hp, but it was powered by a skyline motor. rb26tt i think. but it was street legal.

It was an RB25DET (skyline gts motor), and yes, it was street legal.

When all you guys mention street legal, in which region do you mean? A lot of 'street legal cars in Ohio may not be so 'street legal' in California. Perhaps the more accurate term to use here is 'streetable'.

The kid that Tat is taking about with the GSR swap in a hatchback is true but he ran a 14.1. I saw the timeslip. He spent 3500 on the whole setup because he put it in himself. Now that is 6500 left over and with that he can do internals and boost it and he would have a low 12 sec car. And buy the way that 14.1 run was on snow tires hehe!