Hi-res pictures....enjoy!

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1611231&a=13904016

Wow, is that time elapse photography? It looks like it only took an hour or so to install that beautiful bumper! Looks great, and I like that nifty ARB tool. cool stuff! what do you think it woud take to install the bumper with a couple guys and no power tools in a driveway?

I don't see there gas tank skid bolted to the Yellow X? :confused: I see blue Anti-swaybars in the rear picture is that to compliment the Shackles? :confused: The front bumper looks very nice! They photos for the rear bumper I'd need more detail? You can't see how it bolts up to the frame? Overall looks good!:)

Wow that bumper looks fantastic and the finished paint job is just great. I noticed that you had the bumper on without the swing arm for a bit. How hard is it to remove the swing arm if you want to run with just the bumper in town.

Overall I like the rear bumper. The ARB hi-lift attachment point is a nice. The delron plate for the tire carrier hitch is a good idea. (must have got that from ChuckH. :D )
Simple and effective. I still have concerns about the mounting, but that will be answered when someone who doesn't have a "business relationship" with Calmini actually provides some informative pictures and unbiased real world trials.

I really liked the airhose attachment on the one they had on Project X. It would be cool to have that as an option for people with air compressors (even better if Calmini offers their compressor/bumper as a complete option.

A couple of questions. Why are there rear swaybars on an offroad truck?

The 3rd brake light is covered and I would rather have the tire on one side or the other instead of just blocking both views. I wonder if there are any options to reposition it. Also did I miss the license plate holder?

I don't understand why there needs to be such a large gap between their front bumper and the body. Ian will probably say it's still not final, but it seems odd that an ARB not made for the Xterra fits better. The integrated skid is cool. But is it still mounted in front of the crumple zones? It would be great if someone would come up with protection for the skid bolts. I'll probably have to make my own. But it does look like they are using a larger bolt which should help them hold up better on impact..

Once the rear bumper mounting is answered (probably when Warmonger gets his), it looks like a solid option that will be the only one out there for most Xterra owners. Nice to see some good welds and clean design for a rear bumper. I guess the front bumper is still being worked on, but I didn't like the look of it at GoX. At least it helped hide the nasty front end of the 2002 redesign.

Thanks for the pics Ned.

Of course you like it Schlud; from the outside it's almost a direct copy of yours! :D

I agree, the finish work appears to be superb and Calmini used nice hardware for the latch and swing pivot.

As for the mounting, I just don't know without seeing up close how the center bracket mounts. I will say that the two frame rail attachements bolt to the very end section of the frame using the factory bumper mounting holes. Those holes were not intended to be weight bearing and are too close together to supply much twist strength (up and down). Also, that part of the frame bends side to side easily. That is why Nissan put the hitch attachment holes at the bottom with one of them being inside the box section. That is also why Nissan provides frame stiffeners with their hitches that help link everything together. Regardless, if the center mounting is strong, then there won't be too much worry with the frame rail attachments. It wouldn't be difficult to beef up the brackets later if you want.

Still, I wonder why Calmini didn't just add a few more inches of steel and put atleast one attachment point inside the box section of the frame and utilize the hitch mounting holes.

Now, as you may be able to see in this picture, my bumper is mounted using two of the hitch holes and one side bumper mount hole because KMA didn't make the insert brackets long enough either. On mine, I added an outer plate and an inner angled pice of steel to reinforce the end of the frame and I attaced them with the hitch mounting hole that is inside the frame rail. I think this is good, but we took things beyond that with Schlud's truck. He had new inserts put on that go all the way inside the box section and attach at all three lower holes and all three side holes.

Anyway, those are my observations. I really like the bumper and that's the one I would buy now if I were looking. I would probably make some alterations though, but that's just me! :D

Schlud,

Any chance you can lay off the anti-Ian undertone, at least until Ian actually provokes it in the thread?

Brent

Sure Brent. Done.

I would ask you to consider however, that I had no contribution in the flame war here on AF except to delete posts that were offtopic. Ian then felt comfortable with dragging myself and the board into his personal attack at XOC.

Maybe that's why I'm just a little bitter.

I'll stop the BS. It's better for the board anyway. :smoker:

That is why this board works so well! Everyone contributes! Even Claus! :D

I'll try to get some more detail shots of the mounting stuff soon.

Okay, I've added some structural detail shots.......ultra hi res! Same link as original post.

Thanks for the update Ned.

This is the part that bugs me. That c-section coming from the frame can be bent with a hammer. I don't have a hitch, but isn't that why Nissan puts the frame strengtheners on?

BTW Ned, thanks for all the pics, and your great attitude about some of our questions. Nobody is trying to crap on your new purchase, we're just interested in a new piece of equipment and discussing trucks is what we do here. :D
http://208.203.130.150/x/hitch/hitch3.jpg

But that truck is WAY to clean :)

OT

OT....I assume that means "Old Timer" :D

Originally posted by Schludwiller
A couple of questions. Why are there rear swaybars on an offroad truck?


Simple. The truck is designed to show off Calmini's parts, and those sway bar end links are part of their kit.

So those (blue) swaybars connectors are for a lifted Xterra?

Yes, they're longer than the stock ones, and part of the kit.

You can see them here...

http://www.purenissan.com/P0003083.jpg

I wasn't 100% sure, but suspected that is what they were!

Originally posted by Schludwiller
Thanks for the update Ned.

This is the part that bugs me. That c-section coming from the frame can be bent with a hammer. I don't have a hitch, but isn't that why Nissan puts the frame strengtheners on? ]


I did have the hitch and I do have the rail stiffeners, they are in there.

One thing that bothers me about your argument is that it is really directed to Nissan, not Calmini. Its Nissan's frame and design. I think that some of your ideas would improve things, but only ever so slightly. If things are to fail, it will be at the level of the frame, not the bumper. You can slide back stiffeners as far back as you want, but at that end point will, again, be the weak point (I would think) and the failure point.

I'm sorry but I don't think your argument is a real world argument.

And, too, I am not trying to flame, just comment honestly.

If someone wanted to do 'frame stiffeners', couldn't they just place some stock inside the frame and bolt it up? Same effect for less than a dollar?

Originally posted by xoc


Simple. The truck is designed to show off Calmini's parts, and those sway bar end links are part of their kit.

Out of curiosity would you use their extended sway bar? Or is that designed for people that want the lift, but drive more onroad.

Originally posted by rrdstarr
That is why this board works so well! Everyone contributes! Even Claus! :D



Hey wait a minute !....what the H E double hockey stick to ya mean by that??.....:finger: HOSER !

I love those blue shackles...just looking at mine sitting on my desk..hmm get a spray can???


Claus

Originally posted by ned946



I did have the hitch and I do have the rail stiffeners, they are in there.

One thing that bothers me about your argument is that it is really directed to Nissan, not Calmini. Its Nissan's frame and design. I think that some of your ideas would improve things, but only ever so slightly. If things are to fail, it will be at the level of the frame, not the bumper. You can slide back stiffeners as far back as you want, but at that end point will, again, be the weak point (I would think) and the failure point.

I'm sorry but I don't think your argument is a real world argument.

And, too, I am not trying to flame, just comment honestly.

If someone wanted to do 'frame stiffeners', couldn't they just place some stock inside the frame and bolt it up? Same effect for less than a dollar?

That's what I did on mine. I got some angle stock and ran it into the box section. However, without having the tools to bend and cut it's not possible to run them very far forward like the Nissan inserts do. I would rather have the Nissan inserts, but you can't get them without buying the hitch. The inserts don't really do much for the side of the frame and are there to strengthen the lower part where the hitch attaches. One of those attachment points is inside the frame section. Anyway, when mounting a tow hitch, the idea is to distribute the load and not put it all on the back of the frame. You're right that Nissan is responsible for the weak frame ends, but they also have a fix and there are easy ways to overcome that when mounting a hitch. I think the reason the frame is open at the end is probably for crushability in an accident.

KMA didn't put long enough inserts on either and that is why I had to build up the ends of my frame. Even so, it's probably not as strong as I would like it to be, but I won't know until I really load it up. Schlud had his mounts replaced so they go into the box section of the frame and utilize all six moutning holes (bottom and side) in the frame. After I got my bumper, I talked to several different fabrication and towing specialists about the attachment and all agreed that KMA blew it on the inserts and that a towing load needs to be distributed farther forward on the frame.

All that said, Calmini took a different approach. Obviously Calmini saw that the ends of the frame couldn't take much of a towing load so they developed the center mounting to put most of the load on the frame crossmember. That's fine, just strange to me. There really isn't anything structurally wrong with what they did as far as I can tell by pictures, but I just wonder why they went through the extra development work and everything when adding a few more inches of steel to the rail brackets would have served the same purpose and been more simple.

Anyhow, the bumper looks really sweet and I thank you for sharing the information and discussing it with us. Schlud and I are in no way saying the KMA is better, because it isn't...well, wasn't! :) It's just that wih all my years around metal fabrication and in talking with specialists in this area, I want to make sure nobody else gets screwed like I did with the KMA. Just enjoy your new bumper and let me ponder the reasoning behind the Calmini approach to load distribution! :D

What is this?

"IPF JO-1's" :confused:

Anything we can and do build at home is likely way overbuilt. There's a simple reason for this. We do not have sofisticated software to simulate the loads and structural fail rate of our designs. While Aftermarket companies can test and develop on PC's, we can't. [:(]

When aftermarket companies such as Calmini put smaller parts, thinner steel, etc, it's because they are cutting costs and have determined exactly what size they need for their design strength. Calmini must have determined that the center Hitch support will be cheaper to build than lengthening the Frame inserts.

Now, I'm designing a rear bumper for my truck. It will be the thickest steel I can work with and will mount somewhat like the Modified KMA's. However, I expect this bumper to not fail ever. Likely, the Nissan Frame will bend and fail before the bumper will. I do this because I don't want anything I build to fail and cause an accident anywhere. We can all imagine what will happen if the receiver failed on teh interstate while travelling 70mph..[:(]

Now If I had all the software and knowledge to just design what I need, then things would be different. HMMM come to think of it, I work with several structural engineers....

Most importantly, Steel brackets are only as strong as the welds.

Cliff

wilburburns,

I totally respect home fab. I tinker a lot and I know you get the sense of accomplishment you cannot get by buying off the shelf. It should be a good project for ya. I'd probably tackle it too if I knew how to weld [:( ] and I had a welder [:( ].

One thing you might want to consider (not just wilburbrns) but Steve has told me again and again that he will talk to anyone on the phone and take the time to really answer your questions....and probably give you some inside info on whats next for the X! He has said that he really prefers calls to e-mails though. :D

You might want to hit him up on design concerns and why he did what he did?!?!? :confused:

Ned, You probably don't know, but I actually own a truck..A Frontier...

I was just commenting on mounting brackets and etc...I mentioned KMA, because they seem to be the equivalent of home fabrictaion, while Calmini is a larger operation. That's where the comparison comes from.

Also, Chuck has modified a good strong KMA design. (the design was good, but quality obviously was not) So I was also referring to him as a home fabrication. Although, It sounds like he does have experience in fabrication, but I don't think he's got the necessary programs or schooling to calculate exactly what is needed for the designed purpose and intent. Therefore, Both the KMA and Chuck's modifications are overbuilt. :frog:Chuck, Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not Flameing anyone here, just trying to give a small voice of reason and opinion. I do question both design if being pulled from the rear at an angle. Possibly being winched backwards and not on a straight pull. This will cause a twisting motion. But again, which will fail first the Bumper or the Frame? :smoka: I don't think anyone really wants to find out...

BTW, My design has everything the KMA and Calmini have. Integrated Receiver hitch, Either shackle mounts or attached D-Rings, Will beable to lift from it, and hopefully a it will be sealed for use as an Air Tank. But I don't need the Tire Carrier. realistically, the tire carrier is the easiest part to build, but makeing it work with the Hatch is not so easy.:bloated:

Cliff

I'm still purchaseing all the necessary equipment, so don't expect to see my design anytime soon.:mad: I'm just learning to weld, but I have several experienced people to look over my work for strength and looks. Mostly strength, because clean welds just come with time..

Originally posted by ned946
What is this?

"IPF JO-1's" :confused:

They're integrated driving and fog lights from IPF. Check out Chucks thread "let there be light".

Originally posted by wilburburns
. Likely, the Nissan Frame will bend and fail before the bumper will.

Cliff

Reminds me of the last thing the guys at the welding shop said to me. "The rear end of the truck will get ripped off before this bumper does."

You mentioned twisting. I used my bumper this weekend and pulled from the center hitch with Chuck's receiver tow hook. Mainly because I want to distribute the load as much as possible. Also I was on a muddy section between trees and didn't want the stock truck I was pulling up to slide me into them.

I have two D-rings on each side, but I'll probably use them in specific situations that require off angle pulls. When I did damage to my door getting extracted all I could think about is if I had that damn bumper sitting in my garage I could have gotten out (It still had the short inserts and I was waiting to fix it).

Originally posted by Schludwiller


Out of curiosity would you use their extended sway bar? Or is that designed for people that want the lift, but drive more onroad.

I think that they made that an option for folks like Carlton. :D I guess this would be for folks who can "really feel a difference" in the way their truck rolls around corners and stuff on-road. I can tell a small difference, but I simply changed my driving habits slightly. I ripped out the rear swaybar more than a year ago and haven't missed it a bit.

Originally posted by ned946
What is this?

"IPF JO-1's" :confused:

Yep, IPF JO-1's would be these. Round 55 watt fog and driving dual beam lights. Pictured with fogs on.

Originally posted by wilburburns
I'm still purchaseing all the necessary equipment, so don't expect to see my design anytime soon.:mad: I'm just learning to weld, but I have several experienced people to look over my work for strength and looks. Mostly strength, because clean welds just come with time..

Just remember that clean welds are also strong welds! KMA isn't like "home fabrication" they are more like "drunk fabrication." Their welds are among the worst I've seen and some of them don't really penetrate all the way. Overlal though, the bumper is very strong and I don't think it would come apart easily.

I think you are right about the design issues between the two. My bumper itself is overbuilt, but the attachments are not. Although I'm sure it's plenty sturdy for most anything I can throw at it, the attachment to the frame could still be better. Actually, adding a third bracket like the Calmini wouldn't be out of the question, but I would not attach it at the back of the receiver tube, since that could potentially limit flexability having the end of the tube blocked off like that.

Anyway, after looking at it and thinking about it I don't think the third bracket is such a bad idea. The only reason I thought it was odd was that Calmini uses it as the primary load bearing attachment, whereas I would put it in as an extra attachment for even more strength.

Make sure you share your bumper with us when it's done! Backyard manufacturing kicks ass! :D

Make sure you share your bumper with us when it's done! Backyard manufacturing kicks ass!

Of course I'll show my work. That's half the fun of it...Being criticized and congratulated.:licker:

Hopefully, I'll have the rest of the equipment that I need by the end of the year. Then I can actually start building my designs...I'm sure you are aware of all the costs for equipment...Unfortunately, I wasn't when I started purchaseing Torches etc... :(

With the costs so far, I could have bought a couple of the things I want to make. But the self gratification and satisfaction will be well worth it.

Thanks for the good words...

Cliff

Originally posted by Schludwiller
the stock truck I was pulling up to slide me into them.

HEY! I resemble that remark!
:D