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No dash gauges, but dash lights


82Stang
02-06-2010, 12:16 AM
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE 180K 3.3L

I read other threads about the connections under the hood, both sides, which I unplugged and replugged. I also pulled the IOD fuse for a little bit. Then I removed the cluster and looked it over. Looked good to me.

Got code P1698 for manufacturers assembly control or something to that effect. Thought I checked all the usual culprits. The dash lights work fine, so does everything else. The dash gauges just don't work. This is something that has been an intermittent problem with the dash gauges going out periodically when hitting a bump. It leads me to believe a connection. But I checked all those. Any other ideas?

Thank you.

tempfixit
02-06-2010, 07:04 PM
Try resoldering the cluster. The connections look good with the naked eye but may be faulty.

http://www.ingriddijkers.com/CaravanPics.html

82Stang
02-06-2010, 10:46 PM
Try resoldering the cluster. The connections look good with the naked eye but may be faulty.

http://www.ingriddijkers.com/CaravanPics.html

One thing caught my eye. The separate cluster board that has the odometer and Trans range selector on it, both pieces of glass had a, I guess it could be called a burn spot underneath the glass in the left bottom corner of the odometer one and the right bottom corner of the Trans range one. It looked like a half inch circle of black or burned spot underneath the glass covering. I assume this means it's bad.

The other board that contains the gauges is totally separate and I didn't see anything that looked unusual there. It's not a problem for me to set a new drop of solder on these, I'm just wondering if I don't have the same problem or not. The lights etc all work. The gauges don't. I have had no luck trying to get them to work. I checked all those things I mentioned before. When trying the instrument panel diagnostic, there is no light up at the odometer or trans range for anything.

The engine light gives me a code P1698 for manufacturers controlled and auxillary. Also have ABS light on. I clear codes for 1698, but they come right back. I can definitely resolder, but doing that will probably make the joints overlap. If I've given some new info, what's your next move?

Thanks.

bigj-dog
02-08-2010, 12:21 PM
My '97 voyager used to have the same problem here and there, but the radio would also cut out. If you shut it off and restarted, it's almost always be fine the second time, i never fixed it because it was VERY intermitten, but i'm assuming it was the ignition switch. If you're wondering about the cluster, i'd just find a buddy who has one and swap them momentarily, or get a used one, for the $40 it'll cost you you'll save hours of head scratching.

82Stang
02-19-2010, 10:54 PM
Got another cluster from the boneyard. It had the same burn marks on the odometer/trans range boards. So, I am assuming they either come that way, burn marks are where they assemble the product, or this assembly was bad also. I tend to think that the cluster is not at fault. After looking and looking at the modules under the hood, I found this. The right side front has the Body control mount, of which I tapped with a hammer and no change while the vehicle was running. No change in the tachometer or fuel and temp guages, as this is the main problem. They don't read anything. Then I tapped the left side, which I believe has the PCM. As I was tapping the PCM with the engine running, the van would cut out as I tapped. Sometimes it would rev higher, but most often it would die out. What does this mean? Is the PCM, or whatever it is on the left side with the big plug going into it on the firewall left side, bad? Would this account for the no gauges and no odometer/trans range etc? Seems like they are unrelated, but I could be wrong. Anyone have these same types of things?

bigj-dog
02-19-2010, 11:18 PM
Yeah, that's the pcm. It looks like it's year specific. All of the things you have that don't work would be going through the pcm. surprising that it runs decent with it out, as usually it'll lose spark or fuel when they die. Might be worth a try to swap it out.

82Stang
02-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Yeah, that's the pcm. It looks like it's year specific. All of the things you have that don't work would be going through the pcm. surprising that it runs decent with it out, as usually it'll lose spark or fuel when they die. Might be worth a try to swap it out.


I'm willing to try swapping a part or two if it can help. The part that kills me, no pun intended, is that I have to keep trying parts here and there. I know what is and isn't working, but it seems to be eluding me at this point as to what is the cause. I'll try a PCM, but will that take care of the no gauge issue/no odometer/trans range, which is what I am concerned with mainly? We shall see.

bigj-dog
02-20-2010, 09:07 AM
Yeah, that's the bitch. At least you have multiple things not working, so it leads a person to believe that it's either the ignition switch or the pcm, once you've eliminated the instrument cluster. It seems for my money, it's better to waste a little extra money with the swaps, then hours and hours (sometimes anyway) chasing ghosts.

82Stang
02-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Yeah, that's the bitch. At least you have multiple things not working, so it leads a person to believe that it's either the ignition switch or the pcm, once you've eliminated the instrument cluster. It seems for my money, it's better to waste a little extra money with the swaps, then hours and hours (sometimes anyway) chasing ghosts.

You struck my interest up above when you mentioned the ignition switch also. I'm going to try the pcm first, but may also rip out another ignition switch. Only reason I am thinking this is because the key goes in, but doesn't always turn the ignition. It has to be played with a little at times and turn the wheel slightly etc etc to get it to turn on. Not always, just sometimes. Whether that symptom is indicative of a bad ignition switch, could be, but worth a shot checking also. Thanks.

82Stang
02-22-2010, 09:27 AM
What I've done so far:

- swapped another instrument cluster, no change, lights, but no gauges
- plug/unplug PCM/ECM and Body control module, no change
- swapped in another PCM/ECM on left front fender, no change
- fixed broken ground from Alt bracket to firewall/A/C lines on firewall
- swapped in another ignition switch, no change

There can not be much left, save for another BCM or wiring check. One thing I can mention is that when I turn the key on, at night, I can faintly see the odometer and trans range displays have some dim lighting as if to say some power was going to it. But there is no definition as to mileage or shifter, it's just a dim faint little light across the small boards of each. It's faintly illuminated as if to say that some power is getting to those boards.

Maybe try another BCM or check the wiring real good.

82Stang
02-22-2010, 02:56 PM
One more thing to add. As I said above, there is a code P1698 for manufacturer controlled trans and auxilary output. I erase it, but it comes right back.

I'm going to try unplugging the TCM and put key on to see if gauges come online or not. Then maybe open it up and see if anything looks fishy. I also read you can check power to the CCD by the 3rd terminal from the left in both rows on the diagnostic connector under the dash.

Spit
02-22-2010, 08:27 PM
Guys I show P01698 as being a "no communication between the Transmission and the Transmission Control Module (TCM). Are you having and problems with the van shifting? Stuck in Limp mode?

My van is in a transmission shop right now and the techs can't figure it out. It has a P01698 code and won't shift past 2nd gear.

I read something about a Relay in the main electical box under the hood a EATX relay? According to the post there are other relays in the box that are the same..like the horn relay which you can switch and see if it works? I just sent that info to the shop and I'm hoping they can fix it without a major rebuld.

Spit

82Stang
02-22-2010, 10:11 PM
Spit, I tried the switch of relays and no difference, for me anyway. The van did have a little difficulty shifting, but nothing major. It runs well. Except when in park, I try revving it up and it bogs down and exhaust is alot. But if I go slow with the accelerator, it revs up fine. Not sure what that is.

I got some info about testing the BCM for continuity through the diagnostic port under the driver side dash with the 3rd junction from left on each row. I did that with my multimeter set on 2000)))) and got a tone, which means an open or short circuit and it was reading about .4 to .9 fluctuating back and forth with KOEO. What does this mean, if anything? I'm not too schooled yet on the multimeter.

Aftr looking at the BCM on my kitchen table, it looked good I guess. Everything is covered in this amber jello crap so you really can't tend to anything if it was bad. But it looked as good as I would expect.

Since I have the P1698, could it be a bad TCM? I already changed out the ECM/PCM and nothing different. Where is the TCM? I even read about a VSS. I'm up for anything that could help at this point. It's getting a little bit long in the tooth now.

Spit
02-22-2010, 10:38 PM
82 stang

The TCM is on the driver's side fender. The PCM is on the Passenger side.

There a number of posts on this site dealing with bad solder connections on the dashboard/instrument cluster. that can cause the gauge problems you are citing.

The P01698 is telling you that the electrical signal from the trans is not getting to the TCM.
I would look at all the electical connections that I could. A lot of the people talking about the 1698 were saying that they had problems with the trans shifting...so if you aren't having trans problems maybe this isn't a real problem for you.

I have seen a couple of things posted on this subject...someone said bad or dirty connections at the Power Control Module..PCM (main fuse box under the hood) Some one said that dirty/coroded connections on the bottom of the PCM can be a problem.

Chaffed wires at the front of the transmission. Look for a harness that goes to the solenoid pack on ther front of the trans.

I would be sure to disconnet the battery...and then disconnect the wires at the TCM solenoid etc. & check them for corrosion etc. you should be able to spray them with terminal cleaner. and re-seat them firmly.

Spit

82Stang
02-22-2010, 11:29 PM
82 stang

The TCM is on the driver's side fender. The PCM is on the Passenger side.

There a number of posts on this site dealing with bad solder connections on the dashboard/instrument cluster. that can cause the gauge problems you are citing.

The P01698 is telling you that the electrical signal from the trans is not getting to the TCM.
I would look at all the electical connections that I could. A lot of the people talking about the 1698 were saying that they had problems with the trans shifting...so if you aren't having trans problems maybe this isn't a real problem for you.

I have seen a couple of things posted on this subject...someone said bad or dirty connections at the Power Control Module..PCM (main fuse box under the hood) Some one said that dirty/coroded connections on the bottom of the PCM can be a problem.

Chaffed wires at the front of the transmission. Look for a harness that goes to the solenoid pack on ther front of the trans.

I would be sure to disconnet the battery...and then disconnect the wires at the TCM solenoid etc. & check them for corrosion etc. you should be able to spray them with terminal cleaner. and re-seat them firmly.

Spit

What I know is the PCM/ECM is on the left front fender wall. The BCM is on the right front fender wall. Is this wrong? Is the TCM part of the ECM?

I've read about the solder connections, but don't see anything obvious on the cluster. I could be wrong, but not so sure. I could just try and resolder the points anyway, but not sure that will make a difference.

The code for 1698 does pertain to shifting and I did have a little bit of issue with the van shifting erratically in 2nd gear, but it really doesn't affect the drive at all. It runs great. Whatever the shift issue, it is slight at best.

I checked the connections on the bottom of the PCM and no such luck there.

Chaffed wires however, I haven't mingled with the front of the tranny. Maybe I should. This might be something to check around. If the TCM is around the front of the tranny, I'll try that cleaning etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, is the ECM/PCM part of the TCM? They aren't the same box, right? I'm having trouble identifying things here.

The original problem was intermittent and happened when going over bumps. This leads me to believe it must be a connection or something thereabout. Hopefully it is just a TCM plug. That would be easy.

Spit
02-22-2010, 11:34 PM
Stang,

Sorry, I got it backwards...the TCM Trans Control Module is on the passanger fender... The PCM Power Control Module (sometimes called an ECU) is on the drivers side fender next to the PDC Power Distributon Center (fuse box).

I was looking at some other posts on the suject and you may have the bad solder connection problem. You should to a search on of the term 'instrument cluster' and there is a great post with step by step instructions

Spit

82Stang
02-22-2010, 11:38 PM
Stang,

Sorry, I got it backwards...the TCM Trans Control Module is on the passanger fender... The PCM Power Control Module (sometimes called an ECU) is on the drivers side fender next to the PDC Power Distributon Center (fuse box).

I was looking at some other posts on the suject and you may have the bad solder connection problem. You should to a search on of the term 'instrument cluster' and there is a great post with step by step instructions

Spit


I hope it is that simple Spit. I can resolder the stuff easily. The only problem I have is trying to solder it so it doesn't spill over to anything else. The points are so close it's almost too hard to do. We shall see though, doesn't hurt to try. It only hurts to do nothing.

From what I recollect, the BCM is on the passenger side, I think. The TCM, I'm not sure exactly where. Frustrating I know. But it can't be that complicated. I will figure this thing out sooner or later. Just wish it was sooner. LOL. thanks Spit.

Spit
02-23-2010, 11:11 AM
use as the most fine-tipped iron you can find. It might help if you have some type of magnifier-glasses or something like that so you can see the small connections better while you work on them. In some cases on those cold joints you don't even need more solder, just melting and resetting the old solder gets it done.

Not sure on the BCM location...for some reason I thought the BCM was on the driver's side under the dash
Spit









Spit

82Stang
02-23-2010, 12:12 PM
Not sure on the BCM location...for some reason I thought the BCM was on the driver's side under the dash
Spit
Spit

I need to look that up and know for sure what's what.

82Stang
02-23-2010, 12:45 PM
for some reason I thought the BCM was on the driver's side under the dash
Spit
Spit

We have a winner!

82Stang
02-25-2010, 12:02 AM
I still haven't gotten this yet. I've exhausted all my possibilities. The only thing I haven't done is solder the cluster. I am not confident it will change anything, but..........you never know.

I located the BCM and jiggled the wires etc, but nothing. It originally was a problem that happened when they hit a bump. So, I assumed it had to be plug related or some kind of connection. Whatever it is, I'm not finding it. It was a bump thing. And now I can't duplicate the darn thing. Nothing I touch does anything. Ugh.

82Stang
03-02-2010, 05:01 PM
use as the most fine-tipped iron you can find. It might help if you have some type of magnifier-glasses or something like that so you can see the small connections better while you work on them. In some cases on those cold joints you don't even need more solder, just melting and resetting the old solder gets it done.

Not sure on the BCM location...for some reason I thought the BCM was on the driver's side under the dash
Spit










Spit

Tried with a solder gun and just made it hot, no extra solder. But plugged it in and nothing. Got BCM out, but going to put it back in, no way to test out of car.........it's under the dash behind the fuse box.

I tried another cluster before from the junkyard and resoldered mine. Tried another PCM. Only thing not tried is another TCM or a KNOWN good cluster.

Spit
03-02-2010, 05:52 PM
I assume that you have checked all of the fuses in both the under hood and the in the van fuse centers? When you heated the solder could you see it melt, and re-set?

Any chance you have a problem with the ignition switch? Not the lock but the switch that it engages...it has to complete a circuit for the juice to get to where it needs to go. Lot's of dashboard related functions..start and stop based on what contact that switch does or doesn't close or open. I'm not sure how to test that either..but a Haynes manual will have some sample wiring diagrams..if the 12v? isn't getting to the gauges because of a bad set of contacts in that switch it could be a problem...that switch sells for about $25 @ Auto Zone.


Maybe some one with a lot more where-with-all than me can tell us how to test a BCM...

Spit

82Stang
03-02-2010, 07:43 PM
I assume that you have checked all of the fuses in both the under hood and the in the van fuse centers? When you heated the solder could you see it melt, and re-set?

Any chance you have a problem with the ignition switch? Not the lock but the switch that it engages...it has to complete a circuit for the juice to get to where it needs to go. Lot's of dashboard related functions..start and stop based on what contact that switch does or doesn't close or open. I'm not sure how to test that either..but a Haynes manual will have some sample wiring diagrams..if the 12v? isn't getting to the gauges because of a bad set of contacts in that switch it could be a problem...that switch sells for about $25 @ Auto Zone.


Maybe some one with a lot more where-with-all than me can tell us how to test a BCM...

Spit

Forgot to mention, yes I got another ignition switch out of another junkyard vehicle. Same one I got the other parts from. I got one last weekend, but guess I forgot to try plugging in that one. Everything is all apart now, so it doesn't hurt to try that. I just have to put back together the BCM and fuse block etc first. Fuses I checked all of them as a first step. Always looking for the easiest solution first, but rarely is it ever that easy. :)

I also saw the solder soft and move too.

I'll try the switch and post back. Thanks.

82Stang
03-03-2010, 09:26 AM
Ignition switch, no change. I grabbed a hold of all the wiring I could around the TCM, PCM and transmission and gave a few shakes, no change. The whole thing started intermittently when driving and hitting a large bump and the dash gauges went dead. This would happen intermittently on and off, but I can't seem to duplicate it now. Last thing to try is the TCM. I'll swap another one in this weekend and see if that does anything.

82Stang
03-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Ok. Let me start from the beginning here and map out what I've done so far.

1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE 180K 3.3L

-Intermittent dash gauges when hitting big bumps. Unable to simulate. Lights, locks etc all work.
-ABS light on.
-Check engine light on (P1698/P1695)
-Sounds like it is running in lower gear

WHat I've done so far:

-Replaced cluster, no change. Reinstalled old cluster after resoldering the points.
-Swapped in another PCM
-Swapped in another TCM
-Pulled out BCM, checked connections
-Checked every fuse under dash, in engine compartment. Verified with test light.
-Swapped in another ignition switch
-visually inspected wiring harness under battery tray and from PCM to TCM
-Pulled input/output sensors. Installed new output sensor, no change. Cleaned both original sensors and reinstalled them.
-Fixed ground above Alt on bracket

Scanned with SnapOn scanner. Codes P1698 and P1695. Scanner said it could not communicated with TCM or PCM, therefore unable to test. Said to check CCD bus.

-Last night I tried to test the CCD Bus by installing multimeter ground on battery negative terminal and multimeter positive in #3 and #11 terminals of the diagnostic link connector. The SnapOn manual says to do this to verify CCD bus and should read about 2.5 volts. My meter read 6 on both. But I'm not sure about the accuracy of my meter although it is hardly used, it is 10 yrs old and some numbers have bars missing, even with new battery. I checked the meter by hooking on the battery and it was only reading 9, not sure why. So, the 6 volts I measured may be inaccurate if the meter is malfunctioning.

With all I've checked, I'm at a standstill right now as to what to look at next. Any more ideas? Thanks. :banghead:

Spit
03-08-2010, 02:01 PM
Were you able to check the wiring & connections into the main power center (fuse box) under the hood? It sits so close to the battery and all the corrosive effects of the acid and the vibration etc. I'm not sure if you un-bolt it..wether there is enough slack in the wires to sort of turn it over and see if you can see any problems... Were you able to cut open the wire bundle/strip back any of the elecitical tape or wrapping to get to the individual wires themselves? Short of checking the wires by back probing the wires at the electical terminals) or piercing them with some type of pin..I don't see how you can eliminate bad connections in the wires. You would almost need to be able to check for continuty from one end to another.


By the way I just got my van back Saturday after paying $1600 to have my transmission with 187,000 rebuilt. It broke down out of town and I took it to the only shop open on a Saturday @2:00... The Aamco that did the work had lots of trouble tracking down a PO1698 code and they said it was an iginiton switch...but then they said that I had a 95 TCM in my 97 GC? and that was part of their problem getting their readers to communicate with the TCM? Not sure how that ever happened, never been serviced except by the Dealer and me...no collision work. I wish it had happened at home where I have a trans guy I really know and trust...but it's back and running okay now


Spit

82Stang
03-09-2010, 08:21 AM
I have a bit more checking to do with regards to the wiring. i.e. unplug the main power plugs and check, open up wiring from TCM to PCM and check. This will probably turn out to be a loose,bad,corroded wire somewhere. I just have to find it. It's good to have various resources though. Two heads are better than one.

:thinkerg:

82Stang
03-11-2010, 03:38 PM
I have some grounds to check tonight. Does anyone know exactly where they are on the bottomside of the engine/trans area because I know there is one on top of the alternator bracket coupled with a wire from the firewall. Does anyone know how many there are supposed to be? Maybe two more underneath somewhere. And can you substitute any wire in place of these broken grounds? Or does it have to be something special.

Thanks.

Spit
03-11-2010, 08:33 PM
I don't know where the grounds are...I think I have seen mention of a heavy ground of some sort on the trans case?

Spit

coalminer
03-18-2010, 08:03 AM
Im dealing with this same issue myself, the exception being that the transmission is shifting ok ( I just have to use my GPS so I know how fast I am going ). I have replaced the cluster, and fixed the solder joints just to make sure, there was one time I used my foot while I was driving to hit something by the BCM that caused the gauges to come back up and work for a few seconds, then they all went back down except for the tach, then it dropped. I am leaning towards where the CCD bus wires come together and then split up to go to the different systems. Im just not sure where that splice is, going to tear into it tonight and see if I can find it.


By the way the one I am working on is a 1997 Grand Voyager with 365,000 miles on it, great driving van, just need to figure out this wierd issue.....

82Stang
03-18-2010, 08:37 AM
Actually, my tranny works fine too. I'm not 100% sure about the lower gear change. I don't really drive it lately.

From what I was told, there are two grounds, one above the alternator and one coming from the neg battery cable. I cleaned both, but knew it wouldn't change anything. The two plugs under the battery tray were also checked. One looked like the acid ate through on the side of the plug, but upon close inspection the plug and contacts looked fine.

The most frustrating part about this is that I can't reproduce the intermittent dash. Might be worth a shot just to throw another BCM in and see what's what. Also have some diagnostics about the CCD bus to check. :dunno:

82Stang
03-18-2010, 08:40 AM
I am leaning towards where the CCD bus wires come together and then split up to go to the different systems. Im just not sure where that splice is, going to tear into it tonight and see if I can find it.

If you do find it, please let me know where. I have a feeling i'll need to check that too.

coalminer
03-24-2010, 10:41 AM
If you do find it, please let me know where. I have a feeling i'll need to check that too.


Well, that splice is in a place that you have to tear the dash completely apart to get to, it is directly behind the cluster, but to get to it, that entire part of the dash with the pass side airbag has to come out.

Im back to the BCM, I have a used one on order, that should be here today, the splice looked ok, but I cut all the wires and put them back together(I hope they work ok like that....)

I was told that the mileage is not in the BCM though, only on the engine computer, I hope that is the case, as they will not program a BCM. I will let you know what happens....:banghead:

82Stang
03-24-2010, 11:40 AM
Well, that splice is in a place that you have to tear the dash completely apart to get to, it is directly behind the cluster, but to get to it, that entire part of the dash with the pass side airbag has to come out.

Im back to the BCM, I have a used one on order, that should be here today, the splice looked ok, but I cut all the wires and put them back together(I hope they work ok like that....)

I was told that the mileage is not in the BCM though, only on the engine computer, I hope that is the case, as they will not program a BCM. I will let you know what happens....:banghead:

Well, about a week ago I got another BCM out of the boneyard and tried it. No change again. So, I repulled the cluster and reheated the solder points, only this time I went on it a second time with a shot of solder over each to be absolutely sure. No change there again. Mine has to be a wiring type issue.

Some diagnostic papers I received have steps to take, but an interesting thing I noticed. On the very last step, the diagram splits. One cause is the BCM, the other is the junction/fuse block. I didn't think of the junction block. But I have to remove the BCM once again, in order to check the junction block. It says to remove the BCM, turn ignition on and check cavity 9 of the junction block. If it is 10v or higher, the BCM is bad. If it is below 10v, the junction block is bad. I already know the BCM is ok, so one last thing for me is to make sure about the junction block. Funny thing is, it all looks immaculate in there. No corrosion, nothing, as if it were just rolled off the line.

Spit
03-24-2010, 01:39 PM
Have you tried another dashboard/instrument cluster? to see if the gauges work?
I suppose that there is a chance that the board itself has a crack in it..causing a break a foil track on the board. I had a microwave oven once that had a shorted control board...had to solder on a wire bridge across the broken tracks. then it worked fine.

Spit

82Stang
03-24-2010, 02:50 PM
Have you tried another dashboard/instrument cluster? to see if the gauges work?
I suppose that there is a chance that the board itself has a crack in it..causing a break a foil track on the board. I had a microwave oven once that had a shorted control board...had to solder on a wire bridge across the broken tracks. then it worked fine.

Spit

Yep, I actually did that as the first step...............and it seemed like years ago! I subbed a used one from the boneyard, but no change. Unless the boneyard one was bad, but what are the chances both were bad...

I'm almost 1000% percent sure another one wouldn't change anything, but at this point, now you got me thinking of trying yet another cluster....

coalminer
03-26-2010, 10:52 AM
Well, it was the BCM in my van, once I replaced that everything worked, just need to get the new one programmed with the correct mileage....The van had 365,000 on it before, now it only has 82,000 on it....


Did you try unplugging your little trip module in the overhead console to see if that was disrupting the communication? And also the heater control module?

From what I have read, the voltage in the CCD bus is generated in the BCM and terminated in the PCM, but anything else that is hooked up to it can disrupt the communication.

82Stang
03-26-2010, 06:35 PM
Did you try unplugging your little trip module in the overhead console to see if that was disrupting the communication? And also the heater control module?

There's yet another thing to try. :D

I read also about the CCD bus and any component on that line could affect the performance disprupting everything. I knew of the radio and heater control module and had those completely out when I tried another BCM. Didn't know about the trip module though, worth a shot. Still debating if I want to pull the BCM a 3rd time and check the junction block, as I suppose that could have a problem from what I read.

Another day, another try.

2000 plymouth
05-27-2013, 10:04 AM
i had same issue the panal for heater and blower unhooked temp control harness and all guages come back on

RIP
05-27-2013, 03:05 PM
Since this 3 year old thread has been resurrected anyway, just wonder what the fix was. Are you still there 82Stang?

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