Seat belts no longer move


callihn
01-19-2010, 09:13 AM
93' 1.6L LX

I just replaced the ignition switch and now the seat belts are staying in the back position, which is better than the front position since they are still usable, however, I would like to get them working again.

The ignition issues where covered in the following link in case there's something there:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=975005

Not sure if that's related since it's a new switch, but I can try to jump it and test if someone could tell me which wire belongs to the seat belts, I'm also not sure exactly when they stopped working, just that they worked before the switch went out.

Not finding any blown fuses, checked the belt fuse by pulling it out.

Any ideals on this?

Thanks

ricebike
01-19-2010, 09:59 AM
i know passive seatbelts are covered with a lifetime warranty for any manufactured vehicle in the USA (i've seen suzuki's and nissans that have their belts fixed under this warranty)

but, according to you it was working before the ignition switch replacement? so once again I had to risk shorting other components eh, i dunno if either a wire blew in the circuit instead of the fuse...

Selectron
01-19-2010, 11:04 PM
Again, I don't have the manual for the '93, so these wiring diagrams are for the '95. Two fuses feed into the control module - Belt and Meter, so you'll want to check the Meter fuse too.

'95 Escort Passive Restraint System wiring diagram - pt.1 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-all-passive-restraints-01.png)
'95 Escort Passive Restraint System wiring diagram - pt.2 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-all-passive-restraints-02.png)
'95 Escort Passive Restraint System wiring diagram - pt.3 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-all-passive-restraints-03.png)

In addition to visually checking both fuses, I would also check for 12V on both legs of each fuse - sometimes the top of the fuse casing has two small holes through which you can probe for voltage on each leg. If not then just pull each fuse and check that you do have 12V incoming on one side of the now-empty socket. The Belt fuse has 12V at all times, and the Meter fuse has 12V only when the ignition is in the Run or Start position.

I'm wondering though about that clicking beneath the driver's seat which you mentioned in the other thread - the text in the manual states that the passive restraint control module is mounted under the driver's seat, and I'm thinking the problem might be related to that clicking rather than the new ignition switch, or did the belts still work with the original switch after you replaced whatever it was that was clicking? First step would be to check that both fuses are intact though, and that 12V is reaching each socket.

Intuit
01-20-2010, 12:42 PM
The seatbelts only move into the home/lock/secure position once the ignition is turned far enough to run the blower motor. HOWEVER, they'll typically move to the retract/unlock position regardless of the ignition key's position. All that is required is that the door be unlatched/opened.

The seatbelt motor probably isn't getting any power, however it's easy to verify that by pulling the motor's harness and testing for 12v just after operating the ignition and door. They're at the base of the pillar between the front and rear doors on each side.

I assume that since the doorjam switch doesn't signal the belt to retract, that the trigger is probably associated with the door latch.

callihn
01-20-2010, 07:37 PM
Again, I don't have the manual for the '93, so these wiring diagrams are for the '95. Two fuses feed into the control module - Belt and Meter, so you'll want to check the Meter fuse too.

'95 Escort Passive Restraint System wiring diagram - pt.1 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-all-passive-restraints-01.png)
'95 Escort Passive Restraint System wiring diagram - pt.2 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-all-passive-restraints-02.png)
'95 Escort Passive Restraint System wiring diagram - pt.3 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-all-passive-restraints-03.png)

In addition to visually checking both fuses, I would also check for 12V on both legs of each fuse - sometimes the top of the fuse casing has two small holes through which you can probe for voltage on each leg. If not then just pull each fuse and check that you do have 12V incoming on one side of the now-empty socket. The Belt fuse has 12V at all times, and the Meter fuse has 12V only when the ignition is in the Run or Start position.

I'm wondering though about that clicking beneath the driver's seat which you mentioned in the other thread - the text in the manual states that the passive restraint control module is mounted under the driver's seat, and I'm thinking the problem might be related to that clicking rather than the new ignition switch, or did the belts still work with the original switch after you replaced whatever it was that was clicking? First step would be to check that both fuses are intact though, and that 12V is reaching each socket.

Interesting, that module that was clicking was replaced, with a used one though, from a 96' however it is at least looks to be in great shape, it no longer clicks and when it did I could remove the "BTN" fuse to make it stop, so I'm not sure if it's the same or not, anyone have a photo of the seatbelt module?

BTW, is the module fuse in the interior fuse box?

Thanks for that information folks, I'll have to check all of that.

Selectron
01-21-2010, 11:41 AM
... it no longer clicks and when it did I could remove the "BTN" fuse to make it stop
The BTN fuse feeds about half a dozen other fuses, amongst which is the Belt fuse, so removing the Belt fuse would probably have had the same effect.

This is the layout of the interior fuse panel containing the Belt and Meter fuses, both of which feed the module:

'95 Escort interior fuse panel - fuse layout (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-escort-fuse-panel-interior-layou.png)
'95 Escort interior fuse panel - fuse functions (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-escort-fuse-panel-interior-funct.png)

I don't have a photo of the module but here's a line drawing from the Ford manual:

Module drawing (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-passive-restraint-ctrl-module.png)

And a line drawing of the module location along with a description of the system, which is pretty much as already described by Intuit:

System description (http://selectron.webs.com/images-over-1024x768/95-passive-restraint-system.png)

callihn
01-23-2010, 04:36 AM
The BTN fuse feeds about half a dozen other fuses, amongst which is the Belt fuse, so removing the Belt fuse would probably have had the same effect.

This is the layout of the interior fuse panel containing the Belt and Meter fuses, both of which feed the module:

'95 Escort interior fuse panel - fuse layout (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-escort-fuse-panel-interior-layou.png)
'95 Escort interior fuse panel - fuse functions (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-escort-fuse-panel-interior-funct.png)

I don't have a photo of the module but here's a line drawing from the Ford manual:

Module drawing (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-passive-restraint-ctrl-module.png)

And a line drawing of the module location along with a description of the system, which is pretty much as already described by Intuit:

System description (http://selectron.webs.com/images-over-1024x768/95-passive-restraint-system.png)

Yep that looks real close to it for a drawing.

Do you know by chance if they are available after market?

I'll probably check before you get a chance to answer, but just in case.

Any way to tell if they are good without power?

Weird that I managed to replace it with a faulty one from a modle that's three years newer and it looked like it was in much better shape too. :uhoh:

Thanks everyone.

Selectron
01-23-2010, 09:49 AM
I don't know if they're available aftermarket, but at this stage I think you'd be spending money unnecessarily if you were to replace it. I've been on the forum for three years and I can't remember anybody ever reporting a module failure or even needing to investigate the module, so I assume they're robust and reliable, and I doubt very much that the replacement module would be faulty. I think the fault is either elsewhere, or maybe they changed the module between '93 and '96 and the '96 module might not be compatible, so it would be worth checking to see if the part numbers match - they would typically be on a label on the module case.

I assume you've checked both fuses and checked also that 12V is available on one side of both of those sockets with the fuses unplugged. The manual does have a troubleshooting guide so I'll take a closer look at that and post the details later.

Selectron
01-23-2010, 12:50 PM
In the manual's Diagnosis and Testing section, these are the fault conditions listed for the belt transport mechanism:

Condition(s):

Neither Belt Moves From Front Position
Belt Does Not Move From Front Position
Belt Does Not Move From Rear Position
Belt Carrier (Transport) Jumps or Clicks at Rear Position While Ignition Is ON
Belt Carrier (Transport) Jumps or Clicks at Front Position While Door Is Open
Belt Does Not Complete Full Travel: Forward/Rearward
Emergency Release Lever Inoperative

Notice that the symptom, 'Neither belt moves from rear position' isn't on the list.

Tests listed for the symptom, 'Belt Does Not Move From Rear Position', are:

C1: CHECK DOOR LATCH SWITCH
C2: CHECK FRONT SHOULDER STRAP SWITCH
C3: CHECK SAFETY BELT RETRACTOR MOTOR
C4: CHECK WIRE BETWEEN PASSIVE RESTRAINT CONTROL MODULE AND DOOR LATCH SWITCH
C5: CHECK DOOR LATCH SWITCH GROUND
C6: CHECK WIRE BETWEEN PASSIVE RESTRAINT CONTROL MODULE AND FRONT SHOULDER STRAP SWITCH
C7: CHECK WIRES TO SAFETY BELT RETRACTOR MOTOR

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