Drum brakes

Hi guys

I have a 96 lx

I'm planning to replace my brake shoes, but not sure how to get the drums off. I heard there should be 2 star point screws holding it down, but i dont see anything like that. Can anyone help?



Thanks,

Chris

Mine has two phillips screws.

Mine has two phillips screws.


hmm maybe the previous owners forgot to put the screws back. I'm

going to check the other side today to see if its the same thing. Hopefully there is not issues when taking the drums off without the screws..

I don't know what the screws are for. The wheel will hold the drum on. If the screws are gone you should be able to release the parking brake and pull the drum off.

The holes at 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock are the ones for the screws:

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/aim/80006/image/8/

yeap.. ok..thos holes are empty..no screws..i shined my light into the holes and could see inside

That probably means a prior owner either futzed up the screws trying to get them off, or just lost them. You probably need to use one of those hammer operated impact screwdrivers to loosen them; they were phillips head and countersunk. The screws are the same thread diameter and pitch as the two other little holes - that are there to help you get the drums loose from the hub. However, if the drum is rusted tight onto the hub, putting bolts into those holes and tightening them, may just strip the threads from the 'removal' holes. That happened on one of mine.
I kept banging with a hammer, on the sides of the drum (the cylindrical part), then on the back side of the drum, and used penetrating oil. On my 92 Escort the drum finally came loose after I heated the part close to the hub with my acetylene torch.
On my 91 Escort, the drum was so tight on the hub, that I removed the grease cover, took off the large nut, and pulled the drum/hub together off the car. I separated hub from drum by hammering down on the hub while the drum was lying on the concrete floor of my garage. Then I did a little light grinding of the inside hole in the drum - so it wouldnt be such a hard job the next time I want to take the drum off.

Anyone reading this - I recommend inspecting your brake lines to the rear axle for serious rust - especially up beside the fuel tank on the driver's side. It requires looking straight up though. The lines are 3/16", U.S. thread, standard flare.

thanks guys..i'm gonna try and get the drums off tomorrow..hopefully it would come off with less hassle as possible lol

hey guys...i just came in and having problems with the front brakes.

I took off the caliber via the 2 mounting bolts. Slide out the old pads. I decompressed the piston and the piston brake pad slid in fine but the outside pad facing the wheel seems to thick to even fit in the caliber. It seems there is no room for the new pad. I'm i doing something wrong?. is there a way to get that pad to fit?

You may have the 'stuck sliders'. The mounting bolts for the Escort calipers fit inside of two steel sleeeves, which themselves fit into bored holes in the caliper casting. This is to allow the entire caliper to move sideways to remain centered as the pads wear. There is (or was) a rubber boot between the steel sleeves and the bored holes in the calipers. These had deteriorated enough on my 92, and the the steel sleeves were rusty enough, that my calipers werent sliding as they should. One pad always wore out faster than the other, and sometimes I would have a caliper shift enough to make a rotor run hot - very hot.
I got a kit of the new parts and installed new boots and sleeves. I had to hammer the old sleeves out and to clean out the old boots with an old reamer. I used a light coating of silicone grease when I assembled the new parts. The parts were called either 'caliper repair kit' or 'disc brake hardware kit'.

With the pads out you should be able to push the caliper sideways by hand, to center the rotor in the opening where the pads slide in. If you cant - 'stuck sliders'

You may have the 'stuck sliders'. The mounting bolts for the Escort calipers fit inside of two steel sleeeves, which themselves fit into bored holes in the caliper casting. This is to allow the entire caliper to move sideways to remain centered as the pads wear. There is (or was) a rubber boot between the steel sleeves and the bored holes in the calipers. These had deteriorated enough on my 92, and the the steel sleeves were rusty enough, that my calipers werent sliding as they should. One pad always wore out faster than the other, and sometimes I would have a caliper shift enough to make a rotor run hot - very hot.
I got a kit of the new parts and installed new boots and sleeves. I had to hammer the old sleeves out and to clean out the old boots with an old reamer. I used a light coating of silicone grease when I assembled the new parts. The parts were called either 'caliper repair kit' or 'disc brake hardware kit'.

With the pads out you should be able to push the caliper sideways by hand, to center the rotor in the opening where the pads slide in. If you cant - 'stuck sliders'

Hey guys it took me 4 hours to change the brakes..but i was successful..You actually have to hammer down the rubber still metal that the mounting bolts go through.
The hardest part was getting the piston and the rubber metal to decompress.

Hey guys..after driving around with my new front brake pads..the car is feeling a little slow and stiff, i have to give it a little more gas when driving, also it doesn't role as much in neutral as it usually did..is this normal after installing new pads?

Sounds like the brakes are dragging. Shouldn't be doing that. I'd try jacking the car up and trying to spin the wheels by hand to see where the problem is.

Sounds like the brakes are dragging. Shouldn't be doing that. I'd try jacking the car up and trying to spin the wheels by hand to see where the problem is.

I'll try that when I get home. I also find theres a wierd smell coming from the vents, this started rite after i changed pads.

I think it could be the driver side piston, because i had hell of a time compressing it with the c clamp.

'94 LX with rear drum brakes and it has two phillips screws. The first time I took them off myself, I had quite a bit of trouble, even after banging the hell out of'em with a (relatively small) hammer. If you look on your drums, you'll see some non-beveled screw holes. These are meant for torquing the drum off with bolts. Eventually I ended up going to the hardware store and buying matching threaded, hardened bolts, then using those to gradually force the drum free that way. Before reassembling, I coated the hub contact surfaces with a stiff anti-seize lubricant and have never had a problem removing them since.

============

Think I'm like the third person here thinking that your caliper slide mounts are seizing. It's a VERY common issue for most cars and they should be honed-out and cleaned up as apart of normal maintenance. When they seize, your pads wear unevenly, your brakes drag, and your rotors warp. (and rotors may also wear unevenly)

I've always used a high speed drill and sanding attachment to clean off the buildup on the mounting pins for the pads. Of course, it's a good idea to replace them if they're actually corroding and getting thinner. The buildup even narrows the little holes. I've purchased M-Springs before but I found out they were as weak or weaker than the originals.

Regarding the caliper mount issues...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5990639&postcount=13
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5994476&postcount=5
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5994480&postcount=6
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5995468&postcount=8

Before coming up with that solution, I've talked to store personnel about the caliper slide mount issue and they recommended replacement too... but found it an unnecessary expense; especially given the temporary nature of the "fix." A mechanic wanted to use a special lubricant but knew that would be extremely temporary as well. Honing them out and cleaning up the slide-mount cylinders has proven to be THE solution. As far as the lubricant, Kendall Blue High Temperature bearing grease http://www.autoparts2020.com/rsdev/part_group.jsp?PHPRJ_GROUP_ID=1377&cat=2,3,4,5,9

hey guys..thanks for the quick replies..yea i think its what denisond3 and Intuit suggested. The mounting bolts..stuck sliders. What I did was i took a steel hammer and hit them down so i can make the pads fit and I kind of bent the hole a little bit. So instead of the bolt just sliding in the mount hole then screwing in the caliper, i have to screw it then screw it in the caliper. It was very stupid of me to use a reg hammer I should have used a Rubber malit.

Could that be the issue?..

just to make sure i'll do what aztumbleweed suggested..jack up and check which wheel it is..

The caliper mount cylinders on which the caliper slides on, are different lengths on my vehicle. It might be easy to put the shorter one on the longer side and vice-versa. I overlooked that myself but caught that mistake before full reassembly.

The only danger I can think of in having hammered them to the point that it interferes with bolt insertion, is the fact that this could damage or weaken the threads on bolt. Other than that, I don't see any potential problem. I don't think I quite understand how hammering those pins would achieve anything, as opposed to just forcing the caliper itself to slide in.

The caliper mount cylinders on which the caliper slides on, are different lengths on my vehicle. It might be easy to put the shorter one on the longer side and vice-versa. I overlooked that myself but caught that mistake before full reassembly.

The only danger I can think of in having hammered them to the point that it interferes with bolt insertion, is the fact that this could damage or weaken the threads on bolt. Other than that, I don't see any potential problem. I don't think I quite understand how hammering those pins would achieve anything, as opposed to just forcing the caliper itself to slide in.

Same with me..the top is longer then that bottom..hammering them down well make room for the new pads to fit in to the caliper..its like compressing the piston you have to compress those mounting points to.
To compress those mounting points or sliders..the only way was to hit them with the hammer, but i should have used a rubber malit. So it wouldnt bend bend the end of the mounting points or sliders..

So what your saying is it doesnt matter if the slider end is a little bent and have to screw in the bolt instead of just sliding it in?

If you damaged the sleeve with the hammer you can get replacements from AutoZone.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?skuDescription=Brakeware+/+Brake+Sleeve+or+Stabilizer+-+Front&categoryDisplayName=Brakes+%26+Traction+Control&fromString=&itemIdentifier=125301_148262_0_&productId=125301&sortType=&parentId=44-0&filterByKeyWord=&isSearchByPartNumber=&navValue=14400557&categoryNValue=&fromWhere=&itemId=557-0&displayName=Brake+Sleeve+or+Stabilizer+-+Front&store=5749&searchText=&brandName=Brakeware

If you damaged the sleeve with the hammer you can get replacements from AutoZone.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?skuDescription=Brakeware+/+Brake+Sleeve+or+Stabilizer+-+Front&categoryDisplayName=Brakes+%26+Traction+Control&fromString=&itemIdentifier=125301_148262_0_&productId=125301&sortType=&parentId=44-0&filterByKeyWord=&isSearchByPartNumber=&navValue=14400557&categoryNValue=&fromWhere=&itemId=557-0&displayName=Brake+Sleeve+or+Stabilizer+-+Front&store=5749&searchText=&brandName=Brakeware

Yeap those are it.. i ended up bending the tip of the short one..How would i take out the old ones?

So its a big chance its those cuzing the draging?

I need to check which wheel is effected buy jacking up the car and i'll let you guys know..

I’m curious does it matter if you have the car in neutral or park while changing your brake pads?

I’m curious does it matter if you have the car in neutral or park while changing your brake pads?
Doesn't matter.

Just take the rubber cover off those tubes and I think they slide out. If you tear the rubber AutoZone has those too.

Doesn't matter.

Just take the rubber cover off those tubes and I think they slide out. If you tear the rubber AutoZone has those too.


Would be nice if autozone shipped to canada...i can try partsource

'94 LX with rear drum brakes and it has two phillips screws. The first time I took them off myself, I had quite a bit of trouble, even after banging the hell out of'em with a (relatively small) hammer. If you look on your drums, you'll see some non-beveled screw holes. These are meant for torquing the drum off with bolts. Eventually I ended up going to the hardware store and buying matching threaded, hardened bolts, then using those to gradually force the drum free that way. Before reassembling, I coated the hub contact surfaces with a stiff anti-seize lubricant and have never had a problem removing them since.

============

Think I'm like the third person here thinking that your caliper slide mounts are seizing. It's a VERY common issue for most cars and they should be honed-out and cleaned up as apart of normal maintenance. When they seize, your pads wear unevenly, your brakes drag, and your rotors warp. (and rotors may also wear unevenly)

I've always used a high speed drill and sanding attachment to clean off the buildup on the mounting pins for the pads. Of course, it's a good idea to replace them if they're actually corroding and getting thinner. The buildup even narrows the little holes. I've purchased M-Springs before but I found out they were as weak or weaker than the originals.

Regarding the caliper mount issues...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5990639&postcount=13
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5994476&postcount=5
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5994480&postcount=6
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5995468&postcount=8

Before coming up with that solution, I've talked to store personnel about the caliper slide mount issue and they recommended replacement too... but found it an unnecessary expense; especially given the temporary nature of the "fix." A mechanic wanted to use a special lubricant but knew that would be extremely temporary as well. Honing them out and cleaning up the slide-mount cylinders has proven to be THE solution. As far as the lubricant, Kendall Blue High Temperature bearing grease http://www.autoparts2020.com/rsdev/part_group.jsp?PHPRJ_GROUP_ID=1377&cat=2,3,4,5,9


Hey guys
I didnt get a chance to jack up my car and check which brake is seizing, but i noticed something weird. I remember my brake fluid was below the max level i say about half way before changing my pads..now i see it all the way at the top touching the button of the cap..is that normal?

New pads are thicker. Thicker pads pushes back piston. Piston pushes back fluid. Fluid in reservoir raises. This is normal.

New pads are thicker. Thicker pads pushes back piston. Piston pushes back fluid. Fluid in reservoir raises. This is normal.


Thank your sir, that makes more sense lol.

Thank your sir, that makes more sense lol.

Hi Intuit

I just want to verify how to get the mounting sleeves out. You basically just tap them with a hammer until they come out?.

That's a good question CA. To avoid damaging the sleeve, I use a 1/4 drive deep socket that has a tapered end.

Like this but the tapered end is small enough to fit inside the sleeve.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:keUxvKsYQnJIMM:http://www.toolking.com/Images/Product/Wilmar/mediumW38310.jpg
The wider end is of course, too big to fit inside. This is what we want.

With that inserted from the pad-side of the caliper, I use a pair of large slip-jaw pliers...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:kYUoGw9ynXAqnM:http://www.action-electronics.com/grc/ec100030.jpg
... one end on the back-side of the caliper and the other pressing on top of the socket, and then press it out. If they're really seized in there (which they probably are) then try using a large C-Clamp...
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:lqNmvhcilrRwiM:http://www-ece.rice.edu/~jdw/figs/c_clamp_2.jpg
... to press it out.

EDIT: Oh BTW, if it bothers you, you can use a few good sturdy, thirsty, paper towels to soak up some of the extra fluid in the reservoir. Heat expansion can cause a temporary increase in fluid level but in any regard, the level should lower as you wear on your new pads, rotors.

That's a good question CA. To avoid damaging the sleeve, I use a 1/4 deep socket that has a tapered end.

Like this but the tapered end is small enough to fit inside the sleeve.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:keUxvKsYQnJIMM:http://www.toolking.com/Images/Product/Wilmar/mediumW38310.jpg
The wider end is of course, too big to fit inside. This is what we want.

With that inserted from the pad-side of the caliper, I use a pair of large slip-jaw pliers...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:kYUoGw9ynXAqnM:http://www.action-electronics.com/grc/ec100030.jpg
... one end on the back-side of the caliper and the other pressing on top of the socket, and then press it out. If they're really seized in there (which they probably are) then try using a large C-Clamp...
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:lqNmvhcilrRwiM:http://www-ece.rice.edu/~jdw/figs/c_clamp_2.jpg
... to press it out.


Thanks. I remember I actually bent the turning rode at the end of the c-clamp just to compress the piston.

Piston is best depressed with force evenly distributed from the center. Otherwise you'll get a lot of resistance as a result of the piston being in forced contact with the caliper side walls. Might not be good for seals either... don't know.

Piston is best depressed with force evenly distributed from the center. Otherwise you'll get a lot of resistance as a result of the piston being in forced contact with the caliper side walls. Might not be good for seals either... don't know.

I agree..

Piston is best depressed with force evenly distributed from the center. Otherwise you'll get a lot of resistance as a result of the piston being in forced contact with the caliper side walls. Might not be good for seals either... don't know.


Hey guys

So i just came in from checking out the car. Both front wheels needs a little bit of effort to turn. But when the car is on and in neutral it moves a little better but i still have to turn the wheels buy hand with little effort. Then when i took the brakes off (car still on and in neutral) it turned freely without me turning the wheels. So I'm guessing its both brakes are having problems.

So is it 100% that i would need to replace the brakes sleeve's?
How would i remove the rubber at the ends with out damaging it?

Just due to age and corrosion, i would replace the brake caliper sleeves, and the rubber parts too. All of them should be available. I would be curious to know how much they cost in Ontario. In the U.S. they cost me less than $25 per wheel, shipping included. I got the rubber parts out using needle nosed pliers to grab them, and twisting them to get them to pull out of the groove they fit into.

There is always normally some resistance to the front wheels turning - due to the brake pads being in place, especially if the pads are new. This is with the transmission in neutral and the engine stopped. With the tire off the ground but the tire/wheel still bolted onto the hub, I can turn the wheels, using one hand on the tread of the tire. With the wheel removed, I may be able to turn the rotor or the hub with one hand - but there will be noticeable resistance, due to turning the gears inside the differential and the CV joints.
If the pads were newly installed and I had just pressed on the brake pedal to bring the pistons all the way back 'out', I might not be able to turn the rotor without grabbing it with both hands. This is because the pads had not yet worn to match any irregularities in the rotor surface. Any rotor with a few years use on it is going to have some slight annular 'grooving'.
With the brake pads removed from the caliper, there would still be that minor resistance to turning the hubs, because you will be turning two CV joints, the the gears in the differential, and a wheel bearing that should be -snug-.
Remember that when the weight of the car is on its wheels, the spindle/hub assembly will bend VERY slightly. This will change the angle of the rotor as it spins between the two brake pads (by a tiny fraction of a degree),and the pads will 'wear-in' to match the conditions of actual use. After you take your foot off the brakes, the piston inside the caliper is pulled back a couple of thousandths of an inch by the hysteresis of its rubber seal. At this point there would be no continuous contact between pads and rotor when driving straight ahead.
But taking the weight off the hub will usually always involve some slight contact between the pads and the rotor. This is very noticeable on my 87 chevy G20 van. With a wheel jacked off the ground, if you remove the wheel and try to turn the rotor by hand, it is all I can do to make it turn. But the pads have been on that vehicle for 58,000 miles and are only worn about halfway down.


I have never bothered to get my brake drums or brake rotors 'turned' to make them smooth. I figure the brake shoes or brake pads will quickly wear to match the surface of drum or rotor. I replace rotors or drums when they wear enough to be near the dimension (maximum diameter for a drum, minimum thickness for a rotor) or when they are rusty enough. You always measure the those dimensions from the bottoms of the grooves of course.

Just due to age and corrosion, i would replace the brake caliper sleeves, and the rubber parts too. All of them should be available. I would be curious to know how much they cost in Ontario. In the U.S. they cost me less than $25 per wheel, shipping included. I got the rubber parts out using needle nosed pliers to grab them, and twisting them to get them to pull out of the groove they fit into.

There is always normally some resistance to the front wheels turning - due to the brake pads being in place, especially if the pads are new. This is with the transmission in neutral and the engine stopped. With the tire off the ground but the tire/wheel still bolted onto the hub, I can turn the wheels, using one hand on the tread of the tire. With the wheel removed, I may be able to turn the rotor or the hub with one hand - but there will be noticeable resistance, due to turning the gears inside the differential and the CV joints.
If the pads were newly installed and I had just pressed on the brake pedal to bring the pistons all the way back 'out', I might not be able to turn the rotor without grabbing it with both hands. This is because the pads had not yet worn to match any irregularities in the rotor surface. Any rotor with a few years use on it is going to have some slight annular 'grooving'.
With the brake pads removed from the caliper, there would still be that minor resistance to turning the hubs, because you will be turning two CV joints, the the gears in the differential, and a wheel bearing that should be -snug-.
Remember that when the weight of the car is on its wheels, the spindle/hub assembly will bend VERY slightly. This will change the angle of the rotor as it spins between the two brake pads (by a tiny fraction of a degree),and the pads will 'wear-in' to match the conditions of actual use. After you take your foot off the brakes, the piston inside the caliper is pulled back a couple of thousandths of an inch by the hysteresis of its rubber seal. At this point there would be no continuous contact between pads and rotor when driving straight ahead.
But taking the weight off the hub will usually always involve some slight contact between the pads and the rotor. This is very noticeable on my 87 chevy G20 van. With a wheel jacked off the ground, if you remove the wheel and try to turn the rotor by hand, it is all I can do to make it turn. But the pads have been on that vehicle for 58,000 miles and are only worn about halfway down.


I have never bothered to get my brake drums or brake rotors 'turned' to make them smooth. I figure the brake shoes or brake pads will quickly wear to match the surface of drum or rotor. I replace rotors or drums when they wear enough to be near the dimension (maximum diameter for a drum, minimum thickness for a rotor) or when they are rusty enough. You always measure the those dimensions from the bottoms of the grooves of course.


thanks for the info, yea it makes more sense that its harder to turn due to the cv joint and the gears etc.

About the caliper sleeves I tried getting them out but i dont know where to position the c-clamp or pliers. I had put the c-clamp on a socket in the sleeve but where do i put the button of the c-clamp?. The only place is the other end of the sleeve unless my c-clamp is to small..

Yeah pads will stay in contact with the rotors at all times so some drag is normal. But there shouldn't be so much resistance that the vehicle won't roll in neutral on a smooth, slight incline/decline.

Can't comment for other vehicles but I still have the original caliper slide mount sleeves (and original calipers + pins BTW) on my '94 236k miles. They're all pretty healthy and don't see my slide-mount sleeves ever wearing thin/out. What would be curious is whether newer sleeves would have a coating more resistant to seizing against the rubber on the lower mount? Only front braking components (other than slide-mount rubber seals) I've needed to replace thus far are the rubber brake lines (1 began dry-rot; replaced both @ ~$20 USD per hose earlier this year). Slide mount seals might last longer if I didn't use bearing grease with them but the grease seems to do better at preventing slide-mount lockup. In any event, it seems to be necessary to replace specifically those parts pretty often; but only because the ends get "loose" and seal pretty poorly. (which they do anyway) Using higher quality seals doesn't seem to help, so just find the cheapest low quality part (which basically means AutoZone) and pay bottom-dollar for it. Payed about $7 USD for a pack of them locally. Going to start using stiff wire to assist the rubber on the ends.

I got the steel 'sleeves' out by putting the calipers in my vise and driving them out with a drill rod & a hammer. Lacking that, could you fit a deep socket just big enough to fit over the sleeve on the far end of it; something like a 5/8" or 18 mm socket? The squeeze it into the socket with the 'C clamp'. It would take a fairly good sized 'C' clamp.

Everyone has heard of Murphy's Law; "Whatever can go wrong - will."

But Clampett's law is: "No matter how many 'C' clamps you own or how large they are, soon you will need more of them and larger."