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99 Regal LS - Replaced Starter - cranks - no start


cg22
09-02-2009, 07:39 PM
99 Regal LS- Car died, had loud grinding (flywheel), pulled starter, the whole nose of started broke off and jammed into flywheel. Replaced starter and now car won't start. Got spark on all 6 coils, got fuel too. Just get slight sputtering when cranking it over. Swapped out TPS, MAF, cam sensor. All says go, but no start. Thinking maybe crank sensor, ECM or ignition switch. Anyone else have this problem? Any ideas?

Could I have screwed up wires on starter? Only 2 wires to main starter post and one small one, almost impossible to screw up.

One more thing, just before it died felt like loss of power, pressed more on gas and car just did not want to go.

Airjer_
09-02-2009, 11:16 PM
Time to replace the intake plenum. Check the coolant. If its low the area around the EGR passage has ruptured causing the intake to fill with coolant. The only time I see broken nose cones is from this happening. I'm surprised it turned over at all because one or more cylinders usually hydrolocs which breaks off the nose cone.

The intakes are available after market. Make sure you take the time to read the directions especially the part about replace the EGR passage with the updated tubes that are provided. Also make sure you put in the PCV in the new intake.

cg22
09-03-2009, 12:03 AM
Coolant was somewhat low, overflow tank was empty. I opened radiator cap and added about 1-2 cups of coolant. Never heard about this, thanks. Still don't understand how the cone around the starter (nose) could possibly break off. This is a fixed portion of the starter that surrounds the starter gear. Could there be anymore engine damage due to coolant leaking into the intake? Do I just replace the intake and all will be okay?

Airjer_
09-03-2009, 11:13 AM
If that's what happened than the starter cone breaking off is the only worst case scenario I have run into. Other wise once the upper plenum is removed all the water that has settled into the lower intake can be removed. Then the spark plugs are removed and the engine turned over by hand a couple of time to remove the coolant in the cylinders (remove the fuse or relay for the fuel pump and crank it over a couple times for good measure). Once there back together they run fine. I have yet to run into one that has done something catastrophic to the engine.

cg22
09-03-2009, 01:30 PM
Thanks Airjer, you saved me lots of time and big money. I am in the process of installing an improved version from Dorman ($135).

Quick question, there is a plastic tube suspended from the main gasket. It is installed in reverse in comparison to the factory gasket. Which way should the bend (the 90 degree bend) face, toward the EGR or the other direction.

BNaylor
09-03-2009, 04:19 PM
Quick question, there is a plastic tube suspended from the main gasket. It is installed in reverse in comparison to the factory gasket. Which way should the bend (the 90 degree bend) face, toward the EGR or the other direction.

The issue for '99 and up GM cars with the L36 SII 3800 engine is not just the UIM gaskets or plenum but primarily the LIM gaskets so you might consider replacing them with the new GM aluminum framed or an aftermarket FelPro plastic kit.

The plastic tube you asked about is for the positive crankcase ventilation system. The straight part of the tube goes towards the EGR valve and the bent part to the area of the PCV and MAP sensor. See pic. This is from the UIM and LIM job I did on our '99 Regal LS last year.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC02571.jpg

cg22
09-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Naylor, thanks for the reply and picture, it really helped! I just finished installing the new Dorman intake kit, car runs like a champ now. It did blow tons of white smoke out of the exhaust for about 10-15 minutes, must have been the coolant burning out of the exhaust system.

genem
09-17-2009, 10:25 AM
Did you replace both the LIM and the UIM (plenum) or just the UIM?


There seems to be some confusion on my part as to what engine needs what and I hope someone can set me straight - with facts, just the facts.


From what I have read and understand, older L67 engines had problems with the LIM gasket leaking - L67 engines experience this.

The older L36 did not have problems withe the LIM gasket as they do not produce the heat which the L67 does.

BUT the early L36 engines did have problems with the UIM (plenum) leaking.

Supposedly the L36 problems are prevalent in engines manufactured prior to October of 1998 as the gasket was redesigned and the updated gasket was in production the last half of 1998.

Therefore, from what I gathered from here, there, and everywhere I have searched, ALL older L67's have LIM gasket problems.

And L36's have UIM (plenum) gasket problems if the engines were built prior to late October 1998.

My car, a 1999 LS was built in June of 1999, so I suspect that the LIM gasket problem will not apply, and that the UIM gasket is not as prone to failure as the engine was likely built after Oct 1998.

cg22
09-17-2009, 09:32 PM
Genem, I replace the upper intake (plastic crap) (with a new and improved Dorman version) and the gasket. You seem to know a lot more than me on which engine and years/months that used the inferior gasket/plenum. All I know is that this inferior setup (UIM and gasket) were used in Buicks, Olds, Pontiacs and Chevys. I believe it was only the 3800 series II motors that are affected. My car has 72k miles so I cleaned up the carbon and intake ports while I had it off and new iridium plugs and wires. Car runs much smoother now.....and should last al least another 100k miles.

genem
09-18-2009, 09:04 AM
cq22,

Don't know why there is so much confusion and uncertainty regarding these problems with the UIM and the LIM. I suppose anything to generate the sale and usage of parts is fair game - whether the parts are needed or not is another matter. If GM would publish what they know and what they have done (which they won't) then we could all rest easy and know what to expect regarding plastic part failures in the near or distant future.

FEAR promotes sales and unnecessary spending and buying of parts which promotes business I suppose.

My 99 LS has 161K miles on it, and still has the original plastic plenum with date stamp 5/99.

FWIW, and IMO, anyone placing plastic parts in engine compartments is only doing it because you can pretty well calculate when plastic will fail and this will generate more business in costly repairs and maintenance. IMO - plastic should be banned from automobile engine compartments PERIOD - NO EXCEPTIONS.

We have the knowledge and technology to make engines that will survive the next hundred years, but if we use plastic they can't, as plastic deteriorates just sitting in the shade on a cool 65 degree day.

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