Hey guys, I'm new to this forum but hopefully I can begin with a bang. First things first I'm not experienced in modelling so you'll have to forgive me if I'm slightly misdirected at times!

Basically I'm planning a project to build a bike which doesn't exist in kit form or any other for that matter, so I'm having to go with what I've got. That means there's some things I'll have to get made from scratch so for a first serious model it's not exactly a small endeavour.

This is the bike, I have plenty more reference images however they're from over a few years where sponsors and tiny bits changes which is a pain.

http://raceco.com/Raceco%20JPG/smDaytona%20at%20Brands2.jpg

I'm using a Tamiya Guzzi V10 Centauro kit as a basis for the frame, engine and other small parts. There are definitely bits of that kit which are inaccurate but I'll have to figure things out as I go.

The gigantic issues I'm faced with at the moment are bodywork and decals. I haven't been able to find donors accurate enough for the fairings / fuel tank and honestly I don't think I'm going to, as a result I've been thinking about resin casting. With no scaled original to go on though I can't even make a mould! Does anyone have an idea how I can get these parts made?

The decals will have to be custom printed as well. I can design the sheet myself no problem but I just need to find who can do proper decal printing.

All in all I have plenty of hurdles to clear but hopefully you can offer some guidance.

Cheers!
Tom

First of all, very welcome! Interesting project that you have chosen, and as you say yourself, perhaps a bit tough but you'll probably learn a lot.
As for the tank and seat and the lack of donor kits, I guess you'll have to start creating a master from some material and then cast that in resin. I know Roca46 on this forum has done some challengin attempts on this so have a look at his threads and get yourself a lot of ref pics.
Do you have some special memories regarding this bike? I guess you do as you pick it as one of your first builds. If you don't mind I think it would be interesting to know more.
Best of luck!
/Joel

First of all, very welcome! Interesting project that you have chosen, and as you say yourself, perhaps a bit tough but you'll probably learn a lot.
As for the tank and seat and the lack of donor kits, I guess you'll have to start creating a master from some material and then cast that in resin. I know Roca46 on this forum has done some challengin attempts on this so have a look at his threads and get yourself a lot of ref pics.
Do you have some special memories regarding this bike? I guess you do as you pick it as one of your first builds. If you don't mind I think it would be interesting to know more.
Best of luck!
/Joel

Cheers for the response, I was worried just at the thought of creating masters since I definitely don't think I have the skills to do so. I'll be reading more WIP's tonight for sure as they're a great insight!

As for the bike itself my Father developed it and ran the team from 1994 until 1997 in which time they won 2 international championships and gave John Britten's boys a very hard time at Brands Hatch in 1995 - I've been meaning to get the race on YouTube for ages! I believe it's still the world's fastest Guzzi since '96, either way it's a massive part of my childhood and I want to build a replica for the old man.

I have some photos on my PC of the bike at various stages and it in its current state (If only I had £23,000!). I'm living in London now but there's a bunch of magazine articles and photos back home so I'll check those when I'm next there. I might even visit the dealership it's at now and take measurements.

Welcome to the board! Your bike's body has some likeness of the Ducati 888 superbike racer. Of course it would take some work but it might help you get closer.


Good luck,
Mark

If I am right i remember Paul Lewis riding the bike at brands and it flew i can remember seeing him fight to keep the front end down it had so much power good luck with your project and hope you get things going ok

Kevin

If I am right i remember Paul Lewis riding the bike at brands and it flew i can remember seeing him fight to keep the front end down it had so much power good luck with your project and hope you get things going ok

Kevin

Yup, that's the one! Thanks for the support, as I said I hope to upload that race at some point but it'd probably have to be a chopped down highlights version. I was going to make the '95 Brands Hatch incarnation of the bike but I was talking to my Dad about it and his favourite was around '97 when it was at it's peak of development (He doesn't know about the model though as it's to be a surprise!). It'd be the number 1 - a little cliche I know - which was ridden by Ian Cobby at the time.

Here's a photo of Paul at Brands, as you can see it's slightly different decal / number wise:
http://raceco.com/Raceco%20JPG/lgphoto5.jpg

And another rider ditching it in the rain at Monza in '94, quite a funny photo!:
http://raceco.com/Raceco%20JPG/lgphoto4.jpg

Finally Cobby riding in '97, a Dutch magazine did a big front page feature on it around this time so that should be great for references:
http://raceco.com/Raceco%20JPG/lgphoto9.jpg

The Guzzi engines are SO beautiful!!
/Joel

The Guzzi engines are SO beautiful!!
/Joel

Indeed! Wonderful V-Twin grunt...

I received the Tamiya Guzzi V10 Centauro last night, there's a lot more parts that I can use than I initially thought due to how some of it is broken down.

I still need to get paint and everything but hopefully I can start working on that soon. Although the kit gives some specification, what Tamiya paints would you guys recommend for the engine to give a nice accurate look?

Over on another forum there are a few people who have ALPS printing capabilities so hopefully someone can help print up some decals. I haven't thought much more about the cast conundrum but I may be getting some 3D models made soon to help visualise the elements into one, rather than awkward reference photos.

I've been looking at Hiroboy for metal piping, which type would be best and how is most efficient to cut and bend it? Here is their range:
http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_27

Welcome!!!
This is the kind of work I love, building bikes that doesnt exist in scale, just for the fun of having a unique scale bike in the shelf.
Ill follow closelly this thread!!!

This might be a slightly silly question but how do these work?
http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1619

In other news I'm still just sorting out a bunch of materials but hopefully I'll start doing something with the Centauro kit in the next couple weeks and will have some pictures to post. There are lots of bits that I can use from the kit but at the same time a lot of annoying little modifications I'll need to do.

Hi Tom,

Sorry to write so late, I replied your email.

Hope to see more pictures of the build, I will upload here the work I will be doing with the body.

Cheers
Roca.

This might be a slightly silly question but how do these work?
http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1619




Those are tightly wound springs that are supposed to support the tubing while you bend it. They should keep the tubing from kinking in the center of the bend. I have not tried them yet but, I have a set.



Mark

Those are tightly wound springs that are supposed to support the tubing while you bend it. They should keep the tubing from kinking in the center of the bend. I have not tried them yet but, I have a set.



Mark

Cheers Mark, so is tubing like in the link beneath able to be hand bent using them or does it require an extra tool other than those benders?

http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=547

Also since I've only recently learned about Tamiya metallic paints being withdrawn from the EU, can anyone recommend good but cheap alternatives?

Cheers Mark, so is tubing like in the link beneath able to be hand bent using them or does it require an extra tool other than those benders?

http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=547

Also since I've only recently learned about Tamiya metallic paints being withdrawn from the EU, can anyone recommend good but cheap alternatives?


I believe you can still hand bend your tubing and no extra tools are required.

An alternative to Tamiya metallics could be Testors Metalizers. They come in airbrush ready jars, and spray can. You will need to use their Metallizer sealer or clear cote over each color. They are Laquer so, I don't know if that we help you in the EU.

Mark

I believe you can still hand bend your tubing and no extra tools are required.

An alternative to Tamiya metallics could be Testors Metalizers. They come in airbrush ready jars, and spray can. You will need to use their Metallizer sealer or clear cote over each color. They are Laquer so, I don't know if that we help you in the EU.

Mark

Yeah, a friend from Canada recommended Testors but it turns out no one supplies them in the UK. Plus I can't afford an airbrush either way :frown:. There's stuff like Alclad here but again that really needs to be airbrushed and isn't exactly cheap. Cheers anyway, I did recently find a Tamiya/Humbrol/Revell conversion chart so either Humbrol or Revell might be ok. They have a good range and are both cheap, does anyone have experience with either brand and if so what's the quality considering what you pay?

I'm a step closer to getting the reference images from home, hopefully then the floodgates will open for accurate bodywork, decals, wheels, brakes and other small details. Otherwise I can't really build any of the Centauro (No supplies, currently on order) or make progress in other areas at the moment.

I forgot about Humbrol. I use several of their metallic paints here and there. They are oil based enamel and flow nicely. The parts that I have painted with it have come out good. I like it better than Testors enamels but, sometimesTestors has the color I need.


Mark

Hey guys,

Another one of the challenges for this has been finding accurate brakes. The closest I found was this photoetch on Hiroboy: http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26_30&products_id=1494

I was planning on getting two sets for the front brakes but also because it has an exhaust clamp I really needed. Hiro have sold out though and apparently might not be in stock again for a while, is there anywhere else I might be able to find this?

Cheers,
Tom

Interesting project!

As Mark suggested there are similarities with the 888 (especially the seat unit) - I'd be tempted to start sectioning the bodywork on one, rather than starting from scratch.

Regarding the bending tubing issue - solid rod will bend with less kinking and may be the answer.

Good luck

Interesting project!

As Mark suggested there are similarities with the 888 (especially the seat unit) - I'd be tempted to start sectioning the bodywork on one, rather than starting from scratch.

Regarding the bending tubing issue - solid rod will bend with less kinking and may be the answer.

Good luck

Cheers, although the 888 has some similarities it's nowhere near as close as I'd like. I reckon it'd need modification to the point that scratchbuilt pieces will produce much better results. Roca is helping me out with this and 3D reference models are being built as well so in that regard everything is rocketing!

Hiro also said that they might never get more of those tube benders as well so the rod sounds like a good idea, where might I be able to get something like that? If I do get tubing is there a DIY tube bending method to prevent crimping?

Cheers,
Tom

Cheers, although the 888 has some similarities it's nowhere near as close as I'd like. I reckon it'd need modification to the point that scratchbuilt pieces will produce much better results. Roca is helping me out with this and 3D reference models are being built as well so in that regard everything is rocketing!

Hiro also said that they might never get more of those tube benders as well so the rod sounds like a good idea, where might I be able to get something like that? If I do get tubing is there a DIY tube bending method to prevent crimping?

Cheers,
Tom

Don't know of any tube benders for small tubes. I have an old brake pipe bending tool but it's designed for >5mm pipe. I am planning on turning some smaller bobbins for it so I can do smaller stuff - having said that I've had some success bending 2mm alloy tube with no kinking, you just have to be very gentle with it. I normally coax the stuff around an appropriately sized hex socket which is bolted to a flat board. May be worth getting some tube and trying it out?

Any good model shop should do solid rod (but normally in brass) - brands like K&S do it. Alloy rod is harder to find, - Homebase do it in 4mm and upwards - fine for the 1/8th stuff! :) I used their 8mm rod for the chassis tubes on my project below (last page) - bugger to bend that stuff though!

Where are you in London? They are some speciality metal suppliers around (Park Royal spring to mind).

If you are thinking of doing the exhausts, heavy duty solder works well, it bends easily and polishes up a treat!

Forgot another option - ally TIG wire. Comes in a huge variety of diameters - more so than on this link:

http://www.toolnweld.com/Products/Welding_Consumables/TIG_Wire_Aluminium/

Not used it myself yet!:evillol:

I managed to find some of the tube benders so bought those plus a Tamiya TZ250M as a donor kit. I decided to go with some other brakes which should serve just as well however I'll need two decent looking exhaust clamps, now I'd need to either make some or find something similar.

This is the (now sold out) simplified RC211V photoetch, I have highlighted the clamp which had looked perfect for my project:
http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae157/Tombag/RCVclamp.jpg

Hi all,

Let's give some life to this thread, as you may know I'm doing the body work for Tom, and I will upload here the progress of that job.

I hope you like them.

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi1.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi2.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi3.jpg

More this weekend.

Roca.

So it's joint venture modeling nowadays, huh? Will be great!

So it's joint venture modeling nowadays, huh? Will be great!

:) Yeah, Roca has been kind enough to help with this as I simply don't posses the skills to scratchbuild bodywork. He's already doing a fantastic job on it, I look forward to seeing it develop whilst working on the rest at my end.

I've ordered various things recently but have only really received some of the detailing parts etc, I'm still awaiting another delivery before I can get properly started on the build. I went home for a weekend not long ago so I visited the bike, took a bunch of measurements to aid Roca and further photos. I'm slowly designing the decal sheet to get printed, what's daunting me at the moment though is all the details and wiring I'll have to replicate!

I think you will have a great time making those detail parts. It will be a super kit!
/Joel

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi4.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi5.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi6.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi7.jpg

A lot of work to do... but I enjoy this build.
Roca.

Wow, really nice Roca! I'll try and get some stuff done next week as I'm back in London without anything to work on...

Thank's for the comments Tom,

I hope to work on the seat and the tank this weekend and let the seat at almost 90% finished, as for the tank I hope to make the main shape.

More this weekend.
Roca.

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi8.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi9.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi10.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi11.jpg

http://www.rocascalemotorcycles.com/Varios/Guzzi/racecoguzzi12.jpg

Looking good man!!!
keep the good work...cant wait to see more!!!

Once again, fantastic!! I have some of the stuff I need so I'll probably start the engine soon but could be VERY busy in the coming weeks. I'm still waiting for Milliput so I can't do the frame just yet :(

I finally made some time to try and paint something! Again, since I'm totally new to this the results haven't been great. Here is an actual (lack of) progress pic, could anyone give some good tips for brush-painting parts so they don't look so... Rubbish?

http://amorpheous.net/tom/RG/WIP%20Photos/001.jpg

(Apologies for the bad hastily taken photo as well!)

More!!! More!!!
I havent done anithing in a while because of work and ocupations, and your work here is perfect motivation.

Well, it's really hard to get decent results when brushpainting pieces a bit bigger than the tiniest ones. Mix the paint well and see to that you have the paint thinned. That will make the brush strokes level out properly. Try on some plastic until you get the right consistency. If you paint right from the jar you are destined to get results like that due to the thicknes of the paint.
/Joel

Unable to work on anything major (My Dad is always at home so working right under his nose is a challenge!) I started looking at the donor kit wheels. The two spokes with arrows I have started filing just to take the edge off and make them a bit more rounded, the difference is only just noticeable but at least it'll be more accurate.

http://amorpheous.net/tom/RG/WIP%20Photos/002.jpg

Also, this is a bit of a long shot but has anyone built a Rossi NSR500 without using the NGK fairing decals? I'm getting on ok with the various decal designs but I haven't been able to get any of the spark plug vectors for that one, the decal for that bike looks the perfect size so it might be easier than trying to get them printed. See here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Honda_NSR_500_Rossi_1999.JPG

I'm sure I've got a spare sheet. PM your address and I'll send them over.
/Joel

I constructed one of the front photo-etched brake disks today only to find that they're slightly too big... Does anyone have a suggestion of how best to grind them down a little?

Too big in what way? Pics?

Too big in what way? Pics?

Just the overall diameter. Roughly the area highlighted green is what I'd like to remove, I don't need to worry about the holes as I always intended to fill them in.

http://amorpheous.net/tom/RG/WIP%20Photos/003.jpg

I seriously doubt you will be able to cut or grind half of the disk away without bending/destroying the part. PE parts tend to be too fragile to stand up to that kind of operation.

But if you were going to do without the drilled rotor anyway, you could consider making yourself a new rotor and using only the center portion of the PE part. With a drawing compass with the drawing point replaced with a hobby knife blade or similar, you could cut yourself some new rings out of sheet styrene. Cut the disc off of the PE part and replace it with the plastic, paint it, and you have a custom sized rotor.

Hmm, I may have to do something like that. Thanks for the advice, I have a styrene sheet already so I'll definitely think about it.

I too think that would be the way to do it.
Joel

How do you guys think I should go about cutting the inner section without damaging it?

So despite not having any putty still I decided to take the plunge on re-working the frame. I'm still a bit apprehensive about sizing etc but fingers crossed it'll do the job!


I swiped one of Wuen's photos to give an idea of how the Tamiya frame started, hope he doesn't mind! I stupidly forgot to take photos beforehand:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/waldekn/Moto%20Guzzi/mg-7.jpg


This was my only reference image with a good view of the frame:

http://amorpheous.net/tom/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_Ref.jpghttp://amorpheous.com/tomc/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_Ref.jpg


Here are the results so far, everything is in place but could do with cleaning up a bit:

http://amorpheous.net/tom/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_003.JPGhttp://amorpheous.com/tomc/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_003.JPG

http://amorpheous.com/tomc/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_002.JPG

http://amorpheous.net/tom/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_002.JPGhttp://amorpheous.com/tomc/RG/WIP%20Photos/Frame_001.JPG


Cheers!
Tom

These are the really funny steps! Should I cut there...or there?? haha, great start Tom, let's see more!
/j

Very good Tom,

With all those pictures I will be able to determine if the body I'm making will join that frame.

Please take measurements of the 3 views of the last thre pics in order to let me see if the body is on the good way.


Roca.