broken sway bar


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harmankardon35
07-06-2009, 03:43 PM
ive heard a few of you guys mention this happened to you as well, just today i pulled a u-turn and hurd a loud POP and afterwords i could hear clunking over bumps. Looked and my sway bar broke (not the link, the bar right before the link) ...Can i just pull this thing out of there? its an older high-miler and i really dont care about some extra body roll...as long as its not outright dangerous im willing to just remove it.

any ideas? how much $ and how hard is it to replace?

LittleHoov
07-06-2009, 04:11 PM
Its not terribly difficult to replace.

After raising and safely supporting the vehicle, and removing both front wheels you will need too:

Remove the endlink bolts, by whatever means necessary. Mine basically had to be cut off. It doesnt really matter, because a new swaybar from GM comes with new endlinks anyway.

Youll also have two bolts to remove on each side of the frame, four bolts total. I think theyre 15mm but thats just a shot in the dark. On the driver side, a ratcheting box end is a lifesaver, because the bolts are quite close to the brake lines.

After that, another person is very helpful, because the stock diameter bar should come right out of there without having to do anything, at worst remove a tie-rod end and it will give you the extra clearance you need.

When I removed mine, my dad pushed from the driver side while I pulled from the passenger, I dont think it makes a difference either way, but thats the way we went. I removed my passenger side tie-rod end.

I think its basically a GM only part.

Personally I think its a wonderful excuse to buy this:


But I understand if you dont want too:)

With that said, the stock diameter bar is actually MORE expensive than the thicker,performance one.

The part number for the bigger front sway bar is 12498643, look for it at www.gmpartsdirect.com

You can also browse their catalog for the stock diameter one, but like I said, last I looked it was 20-30 dollars more than the bigger one. Might as well get a little better performance out of your maintenance.

Its actually pretty easy, and the only difference the bigger bar makes in installation is you will have to pop a tie-rod end loose, which is not a big deal.

Let me know if you need anything else.

harmankardon35
07-06-2009, 10:16 PM
thanks littlehoov

Im gonna order once i get my new visa activated but once I order it'll be a few weeks to be shipped and who knows when i can get around to doing it...am I safe just taking the link and broken part of the bar out for a few weeks? I can't tell any difference either than the clunking noise now

LittleHoov
07-07-2009, 06:30 AM
My personal opinion is that its safe. Obviously the car wont handle as well, but if youre not pushing it hard, its doubtful a person could tell, as you stated.

Id say it probably does put an extra strain on things though, but for no longer than youre planning on driving it that way I doubt it would hurt much. But I would get it fixed as soon as youre able.

Im not sure if your state has safety inspections or not, and if so how stringent they are, but it is something that could cause you to fail inspection. If the inspector knew your car was supposed to have one, some vehicles dont even have one.

I also noticed either my link disappeared, or I didnt post it right in my first post. I linked you to the whole GMPP handling kit, but youre probably not interested in souping up the old gal:)

krivasauto
07-07-2009, 07:44 AM
Rock Auto has this part for a hundred bucks. But if you use the interactive catalog, it tells you all the other cars that share this part. According to them, it fits:

BUICK CENTURY CUSTOM (1997 - 2005)
BUICK CENTURY LIMITED (1997 - 2005)
BUICK CENTURY SPECIAL EDITION 2005
BUICK REGAL (1999 - 2000)
BUICK REGAL GS (1997 - 2004)
BUICK REGAL LS (1997 - 2004)
CHEVROLET VENTURE (1997 - 2004)
CHEVROLET VENTURE LS 2005
CHEVROLET VENTURE LT 2005
CHEVROLET VENTURE PLUS 2005
OLDSMOBILE INTRIGUE (1998 - 2002)
OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE (1997 - 2004)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX (1999 - 2002)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GT (1997 - 2003)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GTP (1997 - 2003)
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX SE (1997 - 2003)
PONTIAC MONTANA (1999 - 2005)
PONTIAC MONTANA SV6 2005
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT (1997 - 1998)
PONTIAC TRANS SPORT MONTANA 1998

You will see the U-van listed here. That is consistent with things that I have read that say the front subframe and a lot of the front suspension is the same, and that the U-van is just a body job on a W-car.

Why not go to a wrecking yard? That way you get practice.

LittleHoov
07-07-2009, 07:10 PM
For whatever reason, the stock ones do have a tendency to break, mine was most of the way broken when I upgraded, and the OPs is already broken, we arent the first either.

Personally, I wouldnt want a bar thats been sitting in a wrecking yard, often exposed to the elements, since Lord knows when. Especially when that bar is prone to breaking as it is.

Even then, a wrecking yard bar will probably cost...oh say 20 dollars. Youll also need new endlinks, as well as frame bushings, might as well say another 20 dollars for that. Im not great at math, but thats getting closer to the performance bar price, which looks to be just under 80 bucks shipped.

If a person is going to buy a new bar, why pay more for the smaller one?

I agree that a wrecking yard bar sounds like an ok option if you just absolutely dont have another 30-40 dollars to spare. But it might not be the last time you find yourself replacing it.

Plus even the thicker swaybar alone should make a difference in your driving experience, not just in the corners, my car is not nearly as "floaty" as it used to be, just driving down rough or uneven roads.

harmankardon35
07-07-2009, 07:39 PM
yeah, i notice my car drifts a bit on the highway doin about 110km/h (70 mph)...that aftermarket bar you posted littlehoov is on gmparts direct right? might as well get that one if its cheaper and better

harmankardon35
07-07-2009, 07:44 PM
little hoov you said part # 12498643 will fit a 98 intrigue? it doesn't list it underneath the pic it only lists grand prix etc.., but just from cross-referencing from that list krivasauto posted it looks like its just a typical GM thing putting different part #'s (and different prices) on the same parts....

LittleHoov
07-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Yeah the GM Performance Parts bar would be from GMPartsDirect. I think you can buy them from other vendors, but I doubt it would be much cheaper than buying it straight from GMPP. But it never hurts to look around.

Yes it will fit your car, at least it fits mine anyway, the handling kit just says grand prix, impala, and monte carlo as well, but I installed it on my Intrigue without a problem. Its the same basic chassis. I e-mailed GMPD back in the day and told them that it works fine on the Intrigue and they should mention it, but as you can see, it didnt work.

If youre replacing it, and replacing it with a new one. It makes no sense not too get the thicker one. Its the same installation procedure, minus the fact you will likely have to take loose a tie-rod end, which takes all of 2 minutes. The thicker bar is of course stiffer, so it should make the car a bit more solid than before. I cant say youll notice a drastic improvement with the sway bar alone, but it cant hurt anything, being bigger overall its probably less likely too break in the future as well. Mine is still intact, and its been through some interesting things.

fhofstra
08-17-2009, 06:29 PM
I just replaced my 2000 GLS front anti-sway bar with the 12498643 unit from GM Parts Direct, as Littlehoov suggested. The original bar was half-broken on the driver's side, with the second half looking ready to break. $80 including shipping. Easy install. I took loose both outer tie rod ends to make things a bit less crowded. The only slowdown was the slow one-half-a-flat-at-a-time for the rear bushing bolt on the driver's side as LH said, but I'm retired, so that was just a good exercise in patience. The kit does not come with replacement bushing caps (the metal "C" over the bushings). I had to chisel the rust off the inside diameter of my old caps in order to push them down easier over the (maybe thicker?) bushings for the thicker bar. Not hard, and there is still enough metal on the caps (I hope), but if I was going to do it again, I would try to get new caps. I see they do come with the stock part kit from RockAuto (along with new bolts). My old bolts were good, after wirebrushing and lubing the threads. Thanks to Littlehoov for the info on the heavy-duty bar, and the install instructions. 180,000 miles down; hoping for 150K more...

LittleHoov
08-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Did you notice any better performance from just the bar? Im always curious if anyone notices a difference from just the bar.

Glad it worked out for you though.

fhofstra
08-18-2009, 09:45 PM
LH -
I did not notice any change, although I'm trying hard to imagine flatter cornering. I drive conservative, so it probably isn't likely to show, unless I get a chance to do some serious swerving. The old bar wasn't completely broken; you know how the ends of the bar are bifurcated (split in two)? One of the pieces was broken off; the other ready to break. But the new bar certainly can't hurt.
Another reason it is hard to tell was that I found the problem just a week earlier, when I replaced the original front struts and strut bearings with AC Delco parts from RockAuto. So that made a nice handling improvement just before replacing the bar. Car sure drives nice. Just need to replace the rear struts now. Only one year old and I think they are not so good any more. Going to use AC Delco or KYB this time (Monroe is what I put on).
I better stop before the "hijack" light goes on.

sparcx
05-17-2010, 11:20 AM
Just to follow up on this since I just found out mine is partly broken (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6392171&postcount=14)...

I've been searching around for good pricing and noticed that the Dorman 927-100 bar is actually close to the same specs as the acdelco 12498643 version. It may even be the same bar.

That dorman kit actually comes with endlinks, bushings, clamps, and bolts. Clamps and bolts don't appear to be included in the acdelco 12498643 version.

From what i've read via google the dorman is an updated sway bar that is solid steel 33.58mm.

Runs $91 on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-927-100-Solutions-Replacement-Sway/dp/B0026M9DZS)

Advance Auto has been running some decent coupons and you can even pick it up locally with in-store pickup. You might be able to get it for as low as $80 if they put up another decent coupon. (Sign up for their newsletter for promotions)

LittleHoov
05-17-2010, 02:02 PM
Hmm..I didnt even know Dorman made one, looks like a decent deal. Id still want the cheaper one myself, because thats just my nature, even if I had to wait a bit. But thats definitely another option.

Ebay is another option that might even be cheaper than GMpartsdirect. I just searched for 12498643 on Ebay and came up with one for 65.95 with free shipping.

busboy4
05-20-2010, 06:54 AM
Hi All,
changed out a long time broken bar on my '99 yesterday with the Dorman kit. Not too bad. Biggest challenge was the U bushing bolts at each frame. The rears were a tight fit for the tools - I used a shallow 15mm and or a 15mm wratcheting box end. Bar came out the right side without removing tie rod end - although that would have made it a bit easier. New bar is heavier and somewhat larger diameter. Kit comes with everything new so I used a power side cutter to just cut off the swaybar links on each side and then just center punched what was left down and out.

I did have the luxury of working on a lift, but the ability to be under the car was not really necessary. Just nice to work standing. Very do-able on the ground.

Oh, and I chose to change it out as both ends had failed and were smackin' around making noise.

pfofit
05-20-2010, 12:19 PM
Hi All,
changed out a long time broken bar on my '99 yesterday with the Dorman kit.
Busboy? Despite having your bar busted for awhile and considering you've only had the new bar for a day, have you found any issues/differences, pros or cons, regarding the handling, cornering, lean, and feel of your car with the dorman kit installed against the original?

busboy4
05-20-2010, 07:55 PM
So far I like it. It is my Son's car so I only used to drive it :) But it seems responsive and firm. The OEM bar was separating, but had not let go completely until recently and was noisily smacking around. I think I would describe it as just a more commanding/firm feel in the wheel. I do work with a retired GM engineer type and he did not particularly care for the idea of just removing and not replacing a broken bar as the whole suspension geometry assumes its existence. For what it is worth..

Hoppy2
06-07-2010, 08:36 AM
I read in the chilton's manual that the engine / suspension cradle needs to be dropped to remove the bar. Is this true? Can it just come out the side of the car?

pfofit
06-07-2010, 10:30 AM
I read in the chilton's manual that the engine / suspension cradle needs to be dropped to remove the bar. Is this true? Can it just come out the side of the car?


Not true.
Taken them out through the passenger side however they most likely will come out from the other. Remove the bracket & bushings from the bar and rotate the bar up then down under the tie rods and with a little twist and it slides right out. Helps to have a buddy guide the other end to not whack anything like brake and fuel lines near the driver side.

cheers

sparcx
06-17-2010, 12:54 AM
I've been searching around for good pricing and noticed that the Dorman 927-100 bar is actually close to the same specs as the acdelco 12498643 version. It may even be the same bar.

That dorman kit actually comes with endlinks, bushings, clamps, and bolts. Clamps and bolts don't appear to be included in the acdelco 12498643 version.

From what i've read via google the dorman is an updated sway bar that is solid steel 33.58mm.

I ended up picking up this dorman kit for about the same price as the ac delco, so i went with that as it included the clamps and bolts. Attaching some pics just for the heck of it, but pretty much everything as expected from the earlier description i posted. Very heavy duty solid steel bar.

Bar is marked with a Made in USA label. The endlinks/clamps/bushings package is marked with a Made In China label.

pfofit
06-17-2010, 08:57 AM
Interesting, From Atlantic Canada, I got mine from a distributor who said they came from Ontario and here are some pics. I only had time to replaced the seized and worn down end links. the bar once I've done everybody elses problems:disappoin.

Mine came with a warning /notice about proper installation. It appears that the bump/rise in the middle goes down on the new one, as opposed to the old one with the bump going up. well see how it goes.

Also the id tag is identical to yours except the made in china reference.:shakehead

sparcx
06-17-2010, 09:35 AM
Mine came with a warning /notice about proper installation. It appears that the bump/rise in the middle goes down on the new one, as opposed to the old one with the bump going up. well see how it goes.

Also the id tag is identical to yours except the made in china reference.:shakeheadthat's really strange. i notice yours has a 2009 copyright and mine has a 2010 copyright. Looks like they might have changed up production

My bar is completely blank with no markings. There is no mention of a warning anywhere.. There's a white label wrapped around the middle of the bar that has the sku and Made in USA reference on it.

I would guess in terms of clearance there is problably only one way for it to go in.

pfofit
06-17-2010, 10:54 AM
Missed the date thingy.
I was at two places that "had it to see and fondle" and they were the same with the "Stop Tag" attached and china all over the place. Surprisingly, one place was a junk yard (recycling yard). They said they don't take them off cars as they are either already broken or will be soon enough. He "said" they had sold 11 this year as of end of may and had 3 more on order.

I rarely have any faith anymore in labeling. Like all ads, it seems to be all about blatant deception to the consumer.

I've had OEM parts from dealers that are stamped made in china.
<digression>
Up here in Canada there was a big to-do about product labeling for fish and food products. Here in canada, fish can be grown and fed in an east asia polluted water fish farm, caught there, processed there, frozen there, and shipped to a factory half way around the world to Nova Scotia where a Canadian slides it into a box that is made in Canada and is therefore labeled product of Canada.

The rules state that if 51% of the production cost (Paraphrase) is Canadain then the whole dang thing is product of canada.<end digression>

sparcx
06-19-2010, 03:48 PM
Got someone to install it for me the other day. Everything checks out good. I noticed a change right away. Plus the broken piece was obviously not making any more noise. Everything seems a bit more solid in the front end.

I posted the before pics HERE (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6392171&postcount=14) and the after pics are attached below.

The mechanic had it done really really fast. Apparently they do a ton of these regularly.

akeeeno
06-21-2010, 12:45 PM
Has anybody had their TRAC OFF, ABS, & PCS lights go off simultaneously because of this?

pfofit
06-21-2010, 02:05 PM
Has anybody had their TRAC OFF, ABS, & PCS lights go off simultaneously because of this?
They are normally off. Do you mean come on?

A broken bar causing excessive lean especially during a turn while braking can activate the yaw and\or lateral accelerometer to activate the PCS which will start pulsing the appropriate brake/wheel., but will not turn on the lights.

Turning the lights on are 'cause of an error detected from one of the various signals it looks at.

Now guessing,... if a corner of the car leans excessively maybe strain on a wheel sensor cable or perhaps lateral stress on a questionable/dying wheel bearing can induce noise or erratic signals into that wheels sensor and trip the system.

akeeeno
06-21-2010, 02:32 PM
They are normally off. Do you mean come on?

A broken bar causing excessive lean especially during a turn while braking can activate the yaw and\or lateral accelerometer to activate the PCS which will start pulsing the appropriate brake/wheel., but will not turn on the lights.

Turning the lights on are 'cause of an error detected from one of the various signals it looks at.

Now guessing,... if a corner of the car leans excessively maybe strain on a wheel sensor cable or perhaps lateral stress on a questionable/dying wheel bearing can induce noise or erratic signals into that wheels sensor and trip the system.

Sorry, yes I meant "on". I checked the wheel bearings on all four and they seemed to be fine. I also disconnected and connected back together all of the wheel sensors but that didn't seem to work either.

The Service Engine Soon, TRAC OFF, PCS, & Anti-Lock lights all showed up at the same time and stay on for most of the time. Sometimes they go away for a couple hours or so and the only major difference I can tell is in the power steering. For some strange reason, it's a little bit more difficult to turn than normal.

I've checked the power steering fluid, changes the rotors and pads on all four, disconnected/connected the battery and wheel sensors, and checked the wheel bearing. Everything seems to be fine except for the cracked sway bar.

Anyone know what could be happening? If it's not the sway bar, I'm really running out of options.

LittleHoov
06-21-2010, 05:49 PM
When you have a Trac-Off/ABS style error, it turns off the Magnasteer system which your Intrigue should have. So it defaults to a firmer steering. I sort of like it myself, but not at the cost of no ABS.

Magnasteer gives you a light-feeling steering wheel at slow speeds (parking lot, driveway, etc) and should firm up nicely at higher speeds (highway, racetrack, running from the police)

akeeeno
06-22-2010, 01:53 PM
When you have a Trac-Off/ABS style error, it turns off the Magnasteer system which your Intrigue should have. So it defaults to a firmer steering. I sort of like it myself, but not at the cost of no ABS.

Magnasteer gives you a light-feeling steering wheel at slow speeds (parking lot, driveway, etc) and should firm up nicely at higher speeds (highway, racetrack, running from the police)

Do you know what could cause the Magnasteer system to turn off like that?

Circle
06-22-2010, 02:47 PM
Do you know what could cause the Magnasteer system to turn off like that?

If not the wheel hub sensors, it could be the ABS control module, located near the air box. The front of the module comes off with some torx fasteners. Disconnect the wires and remove it. The car will still run as well as it did before but still without ABS, Magnasteer and traction control. The part is expensive but I sent mine to an outfit called Module Master (Google it) and they rebuilt it for a fraction of the cost new. I reinstalled the the rebuilt module and the ABS, Magnasteer and trac control work fine and the ABS, SVS and Trac lights went out as well.

dizzle1
06-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Looks like I just joined the club, the stock cheap shit hollow ass front sway bar just snapped. Here are a few shots of it only the right side has cracked the driver’s side should still be intact. The Handling is craptacular the car tends to shift to the side when making near spirited turns this is not safe for high speed driving fast lane change maneuvers and it makes me think my car needs an alignment when it probably doesn’t.

Besides that my control arms look rusty they were brand new in 2006 painted too, but the way they look now I hope the sway bar link bracket doesn’t snap one day. I’m thinking about sanding them and hitting it with some primer around that part at least, the ball joints are good and other components.

I’m looking for a new sway bar something better with links, bushings, brackets and not some hollow cheap shit either.

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo15/bmwmperor/The%20Forums/062900_201200.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo15/bmwmperor/The%20Forums/062900_200900.jpg

sparcx
06-30-2010, 04:52 PM
The Handling is craptacular the car tends to shift to the side when making near spirited turns this is not safe for high speed driving fast lane change maneuvers and it makes me think my car needs an alignment when it probably doesn’t. yep... i was starting to feel that i needed an alignment after i saw that mine was broken. All that cleared up after it was replaced.

This past weekend i drove about 500 miles with the new bar installed. It has really made a difference. (that's even after i already had front struts/mounts, wheel bearing hubs, and outer tie rod ends done in the last few years)

I’m looking for a new sway bar something better with links, bushings, brackets and not some hollow cheap shit either.check out the dorman one i posted about earlier. It includes clamps and bolts as well, which wasn't included in some of the other kits. The mechanic I used seemed to like it. A bunch of pictures were posted as well.

dizzle1
06-30-2010, 08:22 PM
check out the dorman one i posted about earlier. It includes clamps and bolts as well, which wasn't included in some of the other kits. The mechanic I used seemed to like it. A bunch of pictures were posted as well.
This has been the reason why I never decided to buy any sway bars yet, look at the link below you'll see why. I just heard about the Dorman sway bar so thats news to me, but are there any other popular sway bars that W-body owners buy.

$140 W/O Shipping costs Progress Front Sway Bar http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=1049&catid=138 (http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=1049&catid=138)

$95 With Shipping costs Dorman Front Sway Bar Part#927100
http://www.rockauto.com

$76 With Shipping costs GMPP Heavy Duty Front Sway Bar Part#12498643
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=pk12456148

From what I’ve read the progress may be the best, Dorman should be solid and GMPP is hollow is something wrong here?

sparcx
06-30-2010, 09:10 PM
From what I’ve read the progress may be the best, Dorman should be solid and GMPP is hollow is something wrong here?GMPP is solid steel based on what littlehoov has posted previously. I believe he installed both the front and rear sway bar upgrade.

i got my Dorman one at Advance Auto off their website and did in-store pickup. They've been doing a ton of coupon promos on their website so you can get that cost down to $70 to $80 depending on the coupon you use. Plus the fact that it's all local with no shipping charges made it pretty convenient if you have any issues with it.

LittleHoov
06-30-2010, 09:11 PM
The Dorman one will be much cheaper for you if you buy it locally. Which is its main advantage, that parts stores can get it for you. So you dont have to pay shipping costs, its a large and somewhat awkward item to ship.

Dorman makes quality products usually, I see no reason to pay what will probably be 170 dollars or so for the ZZP bar. I dont know if you could really tell a difference between a solid bar and hollow bar without really pushing the car, and if youre pushing it that hard, I would say some other handling flaw of the Intrigue is going to manifest itself first.

I also don't honestly know if the GMPP bar is solid or not, I just know its bigger and heavier than the stock one, which is sort of "duh"

dizzle1
06-30-2010, 09:24 PM
The Dorman one will be much cheaper for you if you buy it locally. Which is its main advantage, that parts stores can get it for you. So you dont have to pay shipping costs, its a large and somewhat awkward item to ship.

Yea local would be best for me and compete for lower prices too lol.

GMPP is solid steel based on what littlehoov has posted previously. I believe he installed both the front and rear sway bar upgrade.

From what i've read on ZZP's website they claim that the GMPP Swaybar is hollow take a look.
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=1049&catid=138 (http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=1049&catid=138)

What bar would have better control Dorman or GMPP because the last thing I got to know if GMPP bar is solid or not if not then ill get Dorman, im going check out advanced auto parts prices online in store hope they are discounts.

sparcx
06-30-2010, 09:55 PM
What bar would have better control Dorman or GMPP because the last thing I got to know if GMPP bar is solid or not if not then ill get Dorman, im going check out advanced auto parts prices online in store hope they are discounts.If the GMPP is confirmed as hollow then i'd go with the Dorman. I didn't think it was, but don't have any experience with it to be sure.

this is what Dorman claims about theirs http://www.dormanguide.com/sway_bar_kits.html

From what i read the dorman is a 33.58mm bar and the GMPP is slightly smaller than the 34mm that is posted on a few sites.

ZZP is claiming at that link that the solid steel is what makes the Progress bar "better" so I think that really makes the Progress bar way overpriced compared to the Dorman. (using their own logic against them... hehe)

dizzle1
06-30-2010, 10:10 PM
LoL, some guy also left a comment on it saying that the GMPP bar was twice as heavy and should be solid, well im going for the Dorman the online promo ends thursday 7/1/10 its for -$20 on a purchase over a $100 or so but it worked, $99.99 for the bar -$20 promo then tax.

sparcx
06-30-2010, 10:40 PM
Another very very minor detail, but the dorman technically has a limited lifetime warranty. I guess it would cover any defects as I think it would be near impossible for this to break or get damaged under normal usage. Just thought i'd point it out since it wasn't mentioned earlier.

dizzle1
07-03-2010, 04:26 AM
I just installed the Dorman Swaybar last night and did some driving it came with all the new hardware ready for quick replacement. I put some thick gear oil in the bushings to help it stay lubricated and also allow me to move it around easier when I was installing it. It came out at just over $87 and as for the benefits of having a Swaybar in the first place and then the added performance I think that’s money well spent.

When you have a Trac-Off/ABS style error, it turns off the Magnasteer system which your Intrigue should have. So it defaults to a firmer steering. I sort of like it myself, but not at the cost of no ABS.

Magnasteer gives you a light-feeling steering wheel at slow speeds (parking lot, driveway, etc) and should firm up nicely at higher speeds (highway, racetrack, running from the police)

When driving the car first thing I noticed was that suddenly the steering became easier but don't forget my ABS is out so magnasteer is off or it would feel even lighter and thats from having bad rear wheel sensors not bearings. Second was the little to no need for alignment the car drove striaghter and kepted a good line. Third was the turning speed I could go into corners faster and more confidently then ever before the front end was firmer had less body roll and overall felt much flatter and the back of the car could use a better Swaybar to compliment it. I did weigh the old and new Swaybars the stock bar weighed 9 pounds and the Dorman Bar weighed 19 pounds.

But if you push too hard into a corner the it will understeer and thats because this car is not a BMW M3 to begin with and it still needs biggers rims/wider tires better springs/shocks and Strutbars.

From my experience of driving quite a few 03-05 Chevy Impala 9C1’s and 04-05 Impala SS I would say this Swaybar is equal to or better in performance. The GMPP handling kit was original equipment on Impala 9C1/SS they came standard with better springs/shocks, GMPP front Strutbar 00-03/04-05 N/A, GMPP Swaybars don’t know what kind of rear trialing arms they have, but they also come with aluminum front sub frames for less weight. If the Intrigue had all this it would technically be a 9C1/SS in the handling department.

Dorman Bar copyright 2010
Bar was made in USA
Components China
My bar was blank also no markings

sparcx
11-15-2011, 04:27 PM
Do you guys think i should replace these end link rubber bushings already? Barely been a year and it seems like they're already starting to tear/wear away. They were the one's from China that came with the Dorman bar.

Looks like the dorman sway bar itself is going to work out fine, but these china dorman included end links don't even last remotely close to as long as the OEM one's that were still good after 10 years.

Might complain since they were supposed to be lifetime warranty and these just look plain defective.

gmtech1
11-15-2011, 06:18 PM
I would replace them with OEM, thats just my opinion.

pfofit
11-15-2011, 08:13 PM
I replaced mine with a dorman about the same time you did and mine look like new and show no visible signs of deterioration.

However, from the upward angle in your photos provided, the bar "appears" to be installed differently from what I have. Let me try to explain.

I still possess the original bar that i welded initially (never throw away anything eh) . I commented several posts back about the bend in the center of the bar pointing downward on the new bar as per their instructions Instead of pointing up in the original

The original bar(and the dorman bar) resulted in the arm parts of the bar that comes out of the frame bushing to start bending/curving/arching slightly downward as it goes under the tie-rod end shaft and then ever so slightly upward near the end. This results in the flat connecting end with the hole, being perpendicular to the link.

Now in your photos, the arms appear to be curing upwards after the frame bushing and down slightly at the end which would result in the flat connecting end being curved down into the bushing on the link in a stationary position. This may be cutting into and damaging the bushing.
This angle I'm trying to describe is slight but may be something to verify. If yours is installed this way it would mean flipping the bar from end to end.
I remember when i did mine that i did a lot of thinking about this placement as the bend in the middle was different but if place as per the original it would put the ends at a downward angle with respect to the end links. I ended up doing what they said to do by placing the driver side down as written on the bar(photos upthread). This caused the pointy bend in the center of the bar to be pointing downward

I will try and take some profile photos as it comes off the frame bushing, if I get a chance when i flip on my winter skins soon, to better show what I'm trying to put into words,

Cheers

sparcx
11-15-2011, 08:29 PM
looking back at the posts, your bar had clear markings about the up and down while the next years bar that i used from the USA didn't have any markings.

you think there will be a way for me to identify which way mine is positioned without having me take the car to a shop to get it checked?

pfofit
11-15-2011, 08:45 PM
lyou think there will be a way for me to identify which way mine is positioned without having me take the car to a shop to get it checked?

As you say the bars are different in the markings so I'm not positive that they are the same even though they are identical dorman numbers.

The first thing you can do is look near the center of the bar from under the car and see if the bend is pointing up or down.

As i said i'll be taking some photos for ya of the bars center and a profile view so you can compare what i have compared to what you have.

The only problem is the old adage, "A man with two watches doesn't know what time it is"

Although, mine did say this side down on driver.
cheers

sparcx
11-15-2011, 09:13 PM
i found a dorman installation sheet for 927-100

http://www.dormanproducts.com/documents4rb/SwayBarInstallationSheet_927100.pdf

not sure if it helps me on the detective work here....

interestingly it says "NOTE: Bar should match OE orientation. See image below. Image may vary depending on application."

pfofit
11-15-2011, 11:32 PM
i found a dorman installation sheet for 927-100

http://www.dormanproducts.com/documents4rb/SwayBarInstallationSheet_927100.pdf

not sure if it helps me on the detective work here....

interestingly it says "NOTE: Bar should match OE orientation. See image below. Image may vary depending on application."
Hey nice find.
5. Slide the Sway Bar through the left side of the vehicle. Make sure ends of bar are angled down. My bolding
Line 5 above. This sums up my long winded explanation about the curve of the bar and the image shows the downward curve under the inner tie rod end arm but from memory the curve appears exaggerated to my intrigue setup . That's the problem with showing 3 dimension from a 2 dimensional photo. Probably cause the tires are hanging and the control arm is pulling it down on both sides.

I'm probably wrong but compared to your picture, of coarse from a different angle it appears to be going up instead of down, before it gets to the end link.. That's why we would need to see a profile at the sway bar level.
cheers

sparcx
11-15-2011, 11:56 PM
which side of the car do you think they are showing in that instruction sheet? drivers side?

I guess i'll try popping off that wheel tomorrow and taking another look.

pfofit
11-16-2011, 12:28 AM
which side of the car do you think they are showing in that instruction sheet? drivers side?

I guess i'll try popping off that wheel tomorrow and taking another look.
the side they are showing is the driver side and your copied image is the passenger side.
Remmber that if you only take off one wheel your sway bar will not bend down as much as their photo because the other wheel will be level and on the ground and will be doing what a sway bar does and try to counteract the twisting of the car. however, you should be able to deciper the curve in the metal sway bar.

sparcx
11-16-2011, 12:59 AM
Thanks, i may just pull both front wheels off to make it easier to sort out. Will post back tomorrow.

Interestingly enough, the car drives pretty darn well until these endlinks started failing. The main sway bar bushings appear to be in good shape too based on the pics i took.

sparcx
11-16-2011, 10:05 AM
I messaged dorman and they're asking if it's possible the nut was overtightened beyond 17 ft lbs

anyone know what the OEM end links recommend for torque? the same?

It would make sense since the car is driving fine and the main bushings looking fine.

Gets a little more complicated now that i have two competing theories.

pfofit
11-16-2011, 10:38 AM
Possible explanation for sure. My dumb theory is soley based on a perception from a picture and my experience with the shape of it compared to teh old one..

The bends in the bar are there for placement of the bar within the car and avoidance of other parts. The links are long and have lots of flexibility.. It would most likely perform the same. The bar is just there to react when loaded and help transfer forces from one side to another.

sparcx
11-16-2011, 10:49 AM
I got another fast reply back from dorman when i asked about the possibility of it being installed upside down....

These will not mount if they are installed backwards or upside down. From the looks of the picture there is a lot of threaded bolt above the upper bushing so it sure looks as if it was too tight.

pfofit
11-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Interesting, I do remember physically placing the bar without center bushings in place and that is when I noticed how the curve in the bar would cause an aligning issue with respect to the end links.

One would have to assume your mechanic probably noticed this as well. However,mine did explicitly go out of the way to say how to orientate the bar so that one would not install it upside down. Probably the one I have is quite different than yours.

Just take off the wheel and see how it looks. If it looks proper then your back to overtighening or cheap bushings.

I know that the thread length is long and any w-body sway bar or end links I've removed needed a deep socket to get over the length of the stud, both on new and original links. In fact , in their picture you can see the long length of the link stud even it is partially hidden by the tie rod end

sparcx
11-16-2011, 01:14 PM
OK, pulled both wheels off. Here are the pics. The hump is pointed up in the middle.

I couldn't get a good pic of the hump, but i think i got a pretty good perspective that matches up with their instructions for the drivers side.

Take a look.

sparcx
11-16-2011, 01:52 PM
i followed up with the dorman guy... and he agreed the bar is upside down

You’re right, it definitely looks to be on backwards. That bar should swoop down where it comes off the sub frame.Thanks a bunch pfofit.... you saved me a bunch of long term grief with endlink replacements!

I just hope nothing else is damaged in the process. I'm guessing it's going to be about $100 to fix all of this as i'm going to replace the endlinks and bushings.

The most sad and aggravating part about all of this is that the Made in China dorman bar turned out to be better than the Made In USA version.

pfofit
11-16-2011, 02:52 PM
glad it worked out for you . I was beginning to think I was wasting your time on a wild goose chase.

I've used several dorman products before in the pass and have had no problems but I was very impressed with dorman in that they responded to you and your issue, they responded back quickly and when it came down to it they did suggest that it was possible to flip it.

I wouldn't worry to much about other damage. the only thing I would look at is if the bar over the time it was in the car if it had been contacting the tie rod long arm that it swoops under. If it was severe, then you might had heard it tapping on it

You could probably know by looking if there is scratching on the top of the bar or on the under side of the tie arm.

The end links are not that expensive and flipping the bar is not that bad really. I do not know your abilities or tool setup But the bolts have already been lossened. The original can slide in and out with a bit of twisting and such. i take them out through the passenger side to avoid less contact with the fuel & brake lines. However, the trick with these dorman bars that I ran into is that the hump in the middle pointing down does not allow easy placement without disconnecting the passenger side tie rod end from the steering knuckle.

Now the problem with that is that the original tie rod ends come with a locking nut with a plastic insert and if there is any rust build up on the threads the nuts get stuck on the final threads and the little 8MM hex nut on the end is too flimsy to allow you to get a hold of to get it off. If I want to reuse the tie rod end, I make sure that I use a wire wheel to clean up the studs threads really good and the put some grease on the threads to make sure it doesn't lock up and then start spinning in the knuckle. If I'm replacing the tierod end and it binds up then i just use a grinder to cut off the nut when/if the buddy seizes up.

cheers

sparcx
11-16-2011, 03:29 PM
glad it worked out for you . I was beginning to think I was wasting your time on a wild goose chase.

I wouldn't worry to much about other damage. the only thing I would look at is if the bar over the time it was in the car if it had been contacting the tie rod long arm that it swoops under. If it was severe, then you might had heard it tapping on it

You could probably know by looking if there is scratching on the top of the bar or on the under side of the tie arm.

The end links are not that expensive and flipping the bar is not that bad really.
i'm glad you pushed me into not accepting the first dorman customer service explanation and take the wheels off anyways and double check it.

i did a pretty decent look around. I couldn't find anything obvious that's damaged. At the top above the sway bar hump, there seems to be a small dent in some sort of large piping overhead. Not sure what exactly caused that, but it seems minor. Not sure if i can get a good picture since it's so far in.

Bushings and endlinks were inexpensive. I ordered the Moog versions for about $15 and will pick them in the afternoon. So parts wise that's not a huge issue.

If i had a little more experience, i'd consider doing it myself. Maybe some day down the road.

I have to wonder how many other people did the same thing with the unlabeled bars. I can't have been the only one. IMO, this really is a dorman issue since they reengineered the bars so the middle hump points down now. Without any clear markings like the China version, a lot of mechanics will just try to install it the same way mine did in the OEM orientation. (Edit: turns out my USA dorman bar was marked on the paper label with the words "drivers side". The problem was the sticker was placed on the wrong side by Dorman and my bar went in upside down. )

sparcx
11-16-2011, 05:45 PM
I wouldn't worry to much about other damage. the only thing I would look at is if the bar over the time it was in the car if it had been contacting the tie rod long arm that it swoops under. If it was severe, then you might had heard it tapping on itjust put the wheels back on, but before i did i double checked for any other extra contact. Surprisingly enough there was no rubbing or anything with the tie rod ends. They are pretty close with the bar flipped up like that, but i could not see any signs of contact.

got lucky in that respect as i think those tie rod ends aren't that old.

Nothing else i could find wrong with the bar. The original made in USA sticker is still on there. lol

sparcx
11-16-2011, 06:02 PM
i did a pretty decent look around. I couldn't find anything obvious that's damaged. At the top above the sway bar hump, there seems to be a small dent in some sort of large piping overhead. Not sure what exactly caused that, but it seems minor. Not sure if i can get a good picture since it's so far in.
here's what i mean by that dent. Took a bit of work, but was able to get a good pic from the driver's side.

It's up near the bend of the sway bar in the pic. Looks like a mostly cosmetic dent in part of the exhaust.

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