Studio27 - Carbon Decal 3D - Test

Dear brothers,

I have just put on a test ovr the new carbon decal from Studio27.
Hope to share with you guys my findings.

Joey

http://www.joeyko.com/technique/tech004.htm

cool ,thanks for the "review". I got some sheets yesterday and can confirm that they indeed look stunning, the effect is great!

Many thanks for this review,very interesting.I was just opening a new 3d before reading this one :runaround:.
Now i'm using this new decal on a 1/18th scale 599GTB,i totally agree with your "article".
I'm having lots of troubles,they are hard to apply and takes lots of time......i think too much time :crying:,this is not good!:disappoin
I wanted ask if some special technique was required but after reading the review it seems that it needs only lots and lots of time and patience...:screwy:

Massimiliano

Well...

It's a great idea... but In my oppinion the pattern is wrong it is too much squared and it isn't lineal look at the picture I post on your thread of the M1 and you will see on the rear fender and the protections that there are lines of grey and black, not a square of grey then black then grey then black...

But anyway I should try it because it may be another thing on first view. Thank's for the pictures!

Roca.

Edit. I forgot to say... maybe they say not to clear the decal because then the texture of 3D can disappear.. I suppose..

Well...

It's a great idea... but In my oppinion the pattern is wrong it is too much squared and it isn't lineal look at the picture I post on your thread of the M1 and you will see on the rear fender and the protections that there are lines of grey and black, not a square of grey then black then grey then black...

But anyway I should try it because it may be another thing on first view. Thank's for the pictures!

Roca.

Edit. I forgot to say... maybe they say not to clear the decal because then the texture of 3D can disappear.. I suppose..


The main problem is that the texture probably "melts" when something as "hot" as a gloss topcoat goes on.

The decal is also very thick to get the required texture. That makes it really difficult to work with. The SMS hi def decal is the same way. It takes a long time to work with and takes a lot of micro sol. However, once it's done, it's effect is really great. I really like it. Much more realistic than the old stuff...

Daniel

Thanks for the review, I've been curious about these decals for some time!


It's a great idea... but In my oppinion the pattern is wrong it is too much squared and it isn't lineal...

I agree with you, but the pattern is correct for plain weave carbon fiber. This is the same gripe I have about the ScaleMotorsport HiDef carbon fiber, it is plain weave. Almost nobody uses plain carbon these days for much of anything in motorsports (or moto GP in your case), much less anything structural for that matter. I'll still stick with the regular SMS 2x2 twill and just continue darkening it with Tamiya Smoke.

Its an accurate weave, but the type of weave is inaccurate for 90% of composite work on modern cars and bikes.

Thanks for the review, I've been curious about these decals for some time!



I agree with you, but the pattern is correct for plain weave carbon fiber. This is the same gripe I have about the ScaleMotorsport HiDef carbon fiber, it is plain weave. Almost nobody uses plain carbon these days for much of anything in motorsports (or moto GP in your case), much less anything structural for that matter. I'll still stick with the regular SMS 2x2 twill and just continue darkening it with Tamiya Smoke.

Its an accurate weave, but the type of weave is inaccurate for 90% of composite work on modern cars and bikes.

I'm not so sure. I saw the F2000 that was on display at the IMS back in '07 (to make up for the debacle the year before). The CF on the steering wheel and the cockpit area was almost EXACTLY what the S27 looks like. It's very accurate. I can't speak of the chassis, but the visible areas (wings and bodywork that wasn't painted) were very close to the S27.

There are some views on the MotoGP bikes that don't quite look like that (they look more like the traditional "pewter and black stripe" kind of decal). Other shots I've seen look like the S27 or SMS stuff.

A lot of what throws off our impression of CF on cars stems from flash photography, especially on older cars. Look at pics of interiors from the Mazda 787B or the Jag XJR 9. The pics show that the CF was clearly visible, when it actually wasn't. (I'd post a pic here that i have, but the site won't let me for some reason...darn it!)

Daniel

I'm not so sure. I saw the F2000 that was on display at the IMS back in '07 (to make up for the debacle the year before). The CF on the steering wheel and the cockpit area was almost EXACTLY what the S27 looks like. It's very accurate. I can't speak of the chassis, but the visible areas (wings and bodywork that wasn't painted) were very close to the S27.

There are some views on the MotoGP bikes that don't quite look like that (they look more like the traditional "pewter and black stripe" kind of decal). Other shots I've seen look like the S27 or SMS stuff.

A lot of what throws off our impression of CF on cars stems from flash photography, especially on older cars. Look at pics of interiors from the Mazda 787B or the Jag XJR 9. The pics show that the CF was clearly visible, when it actually wasn't. (I'd post a pic here that i have, but the site won't let me for some reason...darn it!)

Daniel

Well most items aren't laid up using plain weave, they're laid up using a twill weave. So yes, you'll see some plain weave, more often than not it's twill:

http://www.modbargains.com/images/Products/Power%20Slot/Carbon_Fiber_Fabric_Twill_2x2.jpg

Twill has that stair-stepped look. This is a 2 x 2 weave. That is, each tow goes over 2 tows and under two.

Whereas plain weave is checker-board and is 1 x 1:

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Shjpglrg/fabrics/plaincarblg.jpg

So there's weave, but then also how it's laid up. 0/90 or 45. That's the fiber orientation with the warp of the fabric (the length wise as compared to the width as it comes of the roll) being the '0' orientation.

Well most items aren't laid up using plain weave, they're laid up using a twill weave. So yes, you'll see some plain weave, more often than not it's twill:

http://www.modbargains.com/images/Products/Power%20Slot/Carbon_Fiber_Fabric_Twill_2x2.jpg

Twill has that stair-stepped look. This is a 2 x 2 weave. That is, each tow goes over 2 tows and under two.

Whereas plain weave is checker-board and is 1 x 1:

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Shjpglrg/fabrics/plaincarblg.jpg

So there's weave, but then also how it's laid up. 0/90 or 45. That's the fiber orientation with the warp of the fabric (the length wise as compared to the width as it comes of the roll) being the '0' orientation.

To me, if you're getting to that much detail, it's a little beyond me or most people. I understand and see your point. To me or most, the effect is there with the CF, as long as it's done well.

I just thought (and will continue to think) that the pewter twill weave from any manufacturer just looks fake without some serious darkening, almost to the point of negating the decal itself. Done right, it does look ok. But when you look at it real CF with the eye, the pewter and black look of the decal is not there, it's a illusion created by the flash (as in the picture above).

If the plain weave was on, say, the inside of a bike's bodywork, would you mark a model down, assuming you were a judge in a contest? Just trying to see how far most would carry this thought.

Daniel

To me, if you're getting to that much detail, it's a little beyond me or most people. I understand and see your point. To me or most, the effect is there with the CF, as long as it's done well.

I just thought (and will continue to think) that the pewter twill weave from any manufacturer just looks fake without some serious darkening, almost to the point of negating the decal itself. Done right, it does look ok. But when you look at it real CF with the eye, the pewter and black look of the decal is not there, it's a illusion created by the flash (as in the picture above).

If the plain weave was on, say, the inside of a bike's bodywork, would you mark a model down, assuming you were a judge in a contest? Just trying to see how far most would carry this thought.

Daniel

Working with the stuff day in day out you tend to pick up this level of detail. I certainly don't expect the average model maker to be aware of any of it. My point is though, the decal manufacturers aren't doing their research. And frankly, they don't need any inner workings of the stuff, they aren't observing the stuff correctly. The decals, are, after all, simple facsimiles. So if you're copying what you're observing, even from that standpoint I think they tend to get low marks because even based on that, most of what people see is twill weave.

And I disagree about what you're seeing in the image above being generated by the flash, in natural light you can easily pick up the highlights and tell a twill from a plain weave. That isn't an anomaly of the flash as far as I'm concerned. Is it accentuated by the flash? Yes, certainly.

Would I dock someone's model for the wrong weave pattern?...I'm tempted to say yes considering it is a detail that can be observed with the naked eye whether or not you know the mechanics behind it. It would be like getting the color hue wrong. If models are judged to that level then this is something judges should be looking for.

What do I do? Hah...my carbon "look" is old school...black paint. That would go down like a lead balloon, wouldn't it, after my tirade above? ;0)

I really hope Studio27 people is reading this and hopefully will sooner or later have a enhenced version of such brilliant 3D decals. In my test or review, I mainly focused on how the decal works to give the "3D" relfections. Thanks AF and guys here again, we have brought the discussion further to the degree how such new decal looks like as compared to the real CF.

Personally, I really don't have a standpoint myself. The reason is that, I would perfer the older Cartograf decals anyway for their ease of applications. Such 3D decal just doesn't come in handy at all. On top of that, In a static modeling world, I really think those older static patterns are doing very well! It is true that they do not present the CF entirely, but it is just a 1:12 or 1:24 scale model. If the real CF is having such scale down, does it really matter it's just a stepped lines or if it reflects light differently in different angle?

So, well, too far away.... back to this new sheet of decal...
From what I have observed the decal looks like and how Real carbon fiber is seen in photos, maybe I have a clue about the above controversal. Like I said in my review, there are 4 sivlery lines patterned as a square, vertically and horizontally. And that doesn't fit very well like really carbon. WHAT IF the lines are changing from 4 to 8? and at the same time, the pattern is rearranged? I think that can certainlly be done by Studio27 if they do what to give it a try.
And if they do try a new way of making the decal... please pass to Cartograf for the printing.... please.....

I agree with you, but the pattern is correct for plain weave carbon fiber. This is the same gripe I have about the ScaleMotorsport HiDef carbon fiber, it is plain weave. Almost nobody uses plain carbon these days for much of anything in motorsports (or moto GP in your case), much less anything structural for that matter.


This years Red Bull Racing RB5 has the pattern at the undertray...

So, well, too far away.... back to this new sheet of decal...
From what I have observed the decal looks like and how Real carbon fiber is seen in photos, maybe I have a clue about the above controversal. Like I said in my review, there are 4 sivlery lines patterned as a square, vertically and horizontally. And that doesn't fit very well like really carbon. WHAT IF the lines are changing from 4 to 8? and at the same time, the pattern is rearranged? I think that can certainlly be done by Studio27 if they do what to give it a try.
And if they do try a new way of making the decal... please pass to Cartograf for the printing.... please.....

I think if S27 did a 2x2Twill pattern like what mulsannemike posted above it would be a great seller in addition to the plain weave checkerboard. Both weaves of CF have their places and I think the 3D effect is really cool, especially under photography.

I think if S27 did a 2x2Twill pattern like what mulsannemike posted above it would be a great seller in addition to the plain weave checkerboard. Both weaves of CF have their places and I think the 3D effect is really cool, especially under photography.

Agreed in FULL!
Apart from the pattern, it also turns to me that the color tone is TOO black.
If there is little light or the light direction is not good enough, the pattern can hardly be seen at all!
When I was taking the photos, I just try my best to fit at a good angle. When it come in my own hand, I will need to move the parts around to let the pattern shines..... I guess it is quite a limitation as this decal still have some way from true CF (of cox!)

In addition, sizing matters too. What I had tried out is a M size pattern, which I can can be suitable for 1:12 MOTOGP kit for sure (just assume I have managed to apply the decal in one piece perfectly, if I really do)
But when I looked at the same piece of S size, the pattern are much smaller and I don't like it even if it is going to be put on a 1:24 race car!

So, this is it so far in my own opinion.....

Thank you ,Joey ,for the great review.
I want try this 3D decal.
How many sizes does S27 has? So far,from you words,I know size M,and size S.

Thank you ,Joey ,for the great review.
I want try this 3D decal.
How many sizes does S27 has? So far,from you words,I know size M,and size S.

Hi 2009rice,

Like I said in the page, this new decal comes with 3 sizes, S-small, M-medium, and L-large.
It will still be quite difficult to find on the Internet the actual and proper image of the decal. So the best is to check out at some local hobby store before deciding which size fit the most. (You know, 1:12 stuffs and 1:24 stuffs can varies a lot most of the time...):grinno: