From an older thread on wrecked F1, I commented:

...one of the cars that went to Brunei was reportedly crashed and written off, possibly being used for spare parts afterward, but the chassis number hasn't surfaced yet.

Well I don't have much time for Supercars.net lately, but happened to be over there tonight. Our friend basman007 has started an incredibly detailed thread over there spanning a couple of years now, where he has tried to piece together photos and details on the complete Brunei car collection. I think his work on that forum and others is what led to the original list from Garage #5 being released which finally told us with certainty what F1s actually went to Brunei.

Well, in that same thread on SC.net, there is a new user posting under the screenname gollum and some details in one of his posts from early in May really caught my attention. He seems to be a resident of Brunei with good present-day knowledge of the royal car collection.

theres no "RHD clk gtr" anymore at the garage, it mus be sold outside brunei.

dun see any ferrari F50 BOLIDE

there's 2 argento vivo left.

3 mythos-black, blue and red.

5 Ferrari FX-grey, yellow, 2 black, red

6 F90- pink (redish), black, 2 silver, blue & green

F1 Mclaren LM1,LM4,LM5,GT-BLACK, GTR-#09R & 2 standard models

The way I read it, he has basically accounted for all the special F1s that went to Brunei still being there. That means the car that was written off must have been an F1 road car - either #002, #005 or #008. Chassis #014, as most of us well know, has left the country for a better life in the USA. As the story of the crashed F1 was conveyed to me, it was a "significant" car that was destroyed, which always led me to believe it would have been one of the LMs or the GT. Now I am more inclined to believe that perhaps #002, the first production F1 completed in 1993, was the victim.

Another thing about all of these cars being accounted for except one road car is that it kind of blows a hole in my theory that Lawrence Stroll's road car might be one from Brunei. If these details above are indeed factual, the numbers wouldn't add up to allow his F1 to have come from there. Man that's a chassis number I would love to have...

Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone else is as excited to get this extra piece of the puzzle as I am, but I figured it was certainly worth sharing. :)

He also mentioned in another post:

info received :the cars are to be sold to keen international buyer.

That's also exciting as it could mean more of these F1s will finally surface and find homes in the hands of people who will care for them and have a deeeper appreciation than I suspect the BRF has.

>8^)
ER

wow - wouldn't it be awesome to see the GT surface! or one of the black LMs...... :iceslolan wow. the day those get out will be sweeeeet....

My bet is that it too was #002 that was crashed. Stroll buying Asprey from the BRF could still have meant hat he got one of their F1's, as isn't the list you quoted to from Gollum (:thumbsup: BTW) one of current F1's they have, not all the F1's they have had? I cant remember the Original BRF list, but was there more F1's on that ilst than on this one?

I know for a fact it was definately a road car that was destroyed. I don't know the chassis # though


Also, from fchat by the same poster in response to one of my questions:

theres only 2 road car left (didnt note the number), grey and dark blue



My guess is that it was 005 that was destroyed

Ahh - had not seen his stuff at FChat. That does seem to settle it, however I'm not sure why my original source considered #005 to warrant the word "significant" in their description.

Greg - Brunei got a total of 9 F1s. You can go back to Chris' old thread titled "Brunei McLarens revealed" to see the full list. This list has seven on it, which would match up with what we know about one being crashed and one leaving for new ownership.

Some say they may have originally ordered 10, and if so perhaps that red F1 that is parked in Singapore was that car, and it just didn't make it onto the Garage #5 list as it wasn't kept there...? A red F1 was once spotted in Brunei. Sort of a mystery on that one still.

>8^)
ER

I asked gollum about the current condition of the Brunei F1 collection, mentioning some of the issues that #014 had. His reply:

ALL RIDES are kept in aircon garages, away from sun.

BAD THING 4 f1 gtr(#9R): its tires are flat that the ride is sitting on the ground!! no damage though...

the rest f1, well kept and are still neat!! =)

believed that the yellow f1 sold, was due to it being park under sun as the owners drove it ard often and also having hard time parkin into the garage back in the 90s'

That's a bit of a relief to hear. So, does anyone have their checkbook handy? :cwm27:

>8^)
ER

Sorry to bump an old thread, but have you had any more word from this guy, or kept in contact with him? And is there much info on the black GT? what it's like? Or any information on what the black LMs are really like?
Peace

We have pics/illustrations of the black LM's....

We have pics/illustrations of the black LM's....

I meant like, ... i don't really know what i meant! I think i meant more like in real life, and interiors and yea I don't actually know what I meant by that. I do know we have that illustration and 3 (?) pictures from the factory...
Peace

He hasn't had anything more to say so far.

>8^)
ER

That's a bit of a relief to hear. So, does anyone have their checkbook handy? :cwm27:

>8^)
ER


Do you think the Sultan would sell one of his cars if someone asked him? And do you think he'd want strong money for it due to its Royal connection or would just accept market value. (or less :biggrin: )

Going OT slightly, we know that Mr B's car hasn't sold especially quickly and that's a car with real provenance. So maybe their aren't that many potential buyers in any case.

I'd be really surprised if nobody had tried to buy at least one of the LM's. I'm sure there are private (and wealthy) collectors out there who would be willing to shell out some serious cash for an LM, whatever the condition

wow! an sl amg from the sultan is on sale in new zealand. maybe one of his f1s might make it here? http://exoticsandprestige.co.nz/ItemDetail.aspx?N=0&item=252511
would be nice ;)

A lot of the Brunei specials have limited market appeal because most were RHD - Japan, UK, AUS, NZ, etc. The F1s, if ever offered for sale, could go anywhere.

Several sources, however, have stated there is no intention to sell some of the most special cars from the collection like the F1s. In fact, with values seeming to increase exponentially on them in recent years, Brunei would be silly to let them go now. They might just be the best 'investments' that Prince Jefri ever made for them. :grinyes:

>8^)
ER

A lot of the Brunei specials have limited market appeal because most were RHD - Japan, UK, AUS, NZ, etc. The F1s, if ever offered for sale, could go anywhere.

Several sources, however, have stated there is no intention to sell some of the most special cars from the collection like the F1s. In fact, with values seeming to increase exponentially on them in recent years, Brunei would be silly to let them go now. They might just be the best 'investments' that Prince Jefri ever made for them. :grinyes:

>8^)
ER

do you know of any other special's that might have made their way to NZ? (sorry, i know this is taking it off-topic from F1s!!!)

I don't follow the Brunei collection that closely. You'll want to pose that question to basman007 when he gets back. I heard recently he was having computer issues, but he's the real Brunei Collection historian. :thumbsup:

>8^)
ER

Yeah, so it cost me a new pc, but it's all running properly again :) Except for the organising part! everything is in alfabetical order now :( ugh...

So... Gullum. He seems like an interesting guy. He may have some new information. But he didn't reply to my email and pm... If I add up the posts he made with widely known facts and a few mistakes (not in the F1 posts) I'm not totally convinced yet. I'm not saying he's fake, just that we can;t confirm anything he said... It would be great if it was all genuine, I wish he'd contact me :)

specials in NZ... nope, don;'t recall any, but a bunch of the more normal cars ended up there. I've got over 20 recorded cars there. My update will feature a few cars from NZ iirc (will start after this weekend).]

cars for sale... don't think it's some kind of dump there with desperate people. the specials aren't actively offered for sale. a handfull of the normal cars are. quite alot of cars from this era are still being used. there have been negotations about an F1 btw, didn't work out though. everything in this world is for sale, but only for the right price and the right contacts.

He's back!! :wave:

He's back!! :wave:
:biggrin: :wave: Hope you guys are doing good!

Please, let the GT find it's way to my garage......

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/243522/

If these are falling out of the collection, can only hope an F1 or two might be next.

Apparentky, they are being sold by the ex sponsors of the Aguri Suzuki F1 team who apparently never paid up

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/243522/
If these are falling out of the collection, can only hope an F1 or two might be next.

Both cars were on display at the "Automobilmanufactur" in Singapore for years now.
So they didn't just pop up!
Furthermore, I don't think that both cars had ever something to do with Brunei by looking at their vin's and production years.
They are both very late production cars, and just because they are both RHD and the Roadster has a fancy colour combo doesn't mean, that one can link them to Brunei automatically...

If you want to see the pics of the CLK GTR and the CLK GTR roadster, head over to:

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=2&fID=0&tID=104217&bottom=970

I've shared the pics I've taken of the cars during my Singapore visit with basman007. Saw F1 #18 and #65 (correct me if I am wrong) there as well when I was at the showroom.

If you want to see the pics of the CLK GTR and the CLK GTR roadster, head over to:

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=2&fID=0&tID=104217&bottom=970

I've shared the pics I've taken of the cars during my Singapore visit with basman007. Saw F1 #18 and #65 (correct me if I am wrong) there as well when I was at the showroom.

Do you know if 18 was there in 2005?

Both cars were on display at the "Automobilmanufactur" in Singapore for years now.
So they didn't just pop up!
Furthermore, I don't think that both cars had ever something to do with Brunei by looking at their vin's and production years.
They are both very late production cars, and just because they are both RHD and the Roadster has a fancy colour combo doesn't mean, that one can link them to Brunei automatically...

I've been puzzling with these new records for a few hours. It's a rather strange timeline, but in theory it could be true. I've got a small GTR registry and it fits in there as well.
RM has made mistakes before, but even though the coupe specs appear to be incorrect, I think the years are correct. I can also back everything up with photo's.
That leaves us with the question who the prominent collector is. Could still be Brunei. Can't come up with anyone else at this moment...

I dont think 18 was there in 2005. The first time I saw it was in Sept/Oct 2006 in Singapore Automobil Manufactur.