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clear coat question


rhdmiklo
06-09-2009, 04:06 PM
Sup guys. I have a quick question regarding clear. Just to clarify ahead of time, all the paints that I am using are tamiya.

Ok, I just finished laying down a few coats of German Gray Tamiya paint. It looks good, not too much orange peel, but does look a little dull. I have the tamiya clear and wanted to know do If I need to sand the paint down before I lay the clear? Also, how long do I wait till I spray the clear?

Oh, the last one. Should I warm the clear bottle up before use?

Thanks alot.

.vr6Love
06-09-2009, 06:47 PM
Im probably the newest guy on these forums and have 0 experience.. but heres what i found while i was reading some tips/tricks.

I'll finish up this installment with one important note about Tamiya's lacquer paint. If you choose to apply Tamiya's clear gloss (no. TS-13) over a Tamiya color finish, you'll need to be careful when you apply it. You have two choices: you can add the clear coat immediately after applying the last wet color coat, or you can apply the clear coat after the color coat has cured and gassed out for at least a month. Tamiya's clear gloss paint cures at a different rate than the color paints in the line. If you wait even a day to apply the clear gloss, the different curing rates will cause the clear finish to crack.


http://www.scaleautomag.com/sca/default.aspx?c=a&id=1116

Its the second last paragraph. Like i said i have 0 experience though.

Good Luck

MPWR
06-09-2009, 08:28 PM
Welcome guys. :wave:

The above advice is applicable only for spraying enamels. It actually has nothing to do with lacquers. You can spray lacquers over lacquers anytime after about an hour or so.


Ok, I just finished laying down a few coats of German Gray Tamiya paint. It looks good, not too much orange peel, but does look a little dull. I have the tamiya clear and wanted to know do If I need to sand the paint down before I lay the clear? Also, how long do I wait till I spray the clear?

Oh, the last one. Should I warm the clear bottle up before use?

German Grey is going to be dull- it's supposed to be a flat military color. But Tamiya clear should fix that fine. You do not need to sand before clearcoating. Make sure you spray the clear in light mistcoats- not heavy wetcoats. Tamiya lacquer clearcoat has a way of destroying anything under it if applied too heavily. Apply it slowly, and leave an hour or so between coats. Don't even try to do it all at once.

And warming the can will make the clear spray smoother.

rhdmiklo
06-09-2009, 10:08 PM
thanks for the info. And yea, I will be using the ts-13 clear. So I can actually spray it the next day? Do I need to wetsand the clear? Or just use rubbing compound?

Thanks alot though, this is most helpful

MPWR
06-10-2009, 08:13 AM
Yes, next day is great.

Wetsanding and compound is your choice. Personally I don't wetsand paint or clearcoat for any reason, especially if more paint/clearcoat will be sprayed. I find that water spotting and wetsanding dust/mud is just too much of a contamination risk. Dry sanding with very fine abrasives will more than do the trick.

But if you spray the clear on in light coats and use the warm can trick, compound may be all you need whe you're done.

Didymus
06-10-2009, 02:30 PM
Follow MPWR's advice, and you'll be fine.

Personally I don't wetsand paint or clearcoat for any reason, especially if more paint/clearcoat will be sprayed.

I do wet-sand with 2000 grit wet-or-dry, but only to remove dust bumps or orange peel. If a surface is smooth, with little-or-no paint texture, I just use Tamiya compounds, moving from Coarse to Fine to Finish. Tamiya really mis-named Coarse; it's actually very fine. Nonetheless, it will polish out mild orange peel.

Before painting, I always wash parts with a soapy solution, then rinse well under the tap. But, as MPWR says, if you let tap water dry on a surface, it will leave a mineral residue. To prevent that, gently blot up water drops with an old tee shirt.

Ddms

guiwee
06-11-2009, 12:59 AM
OH..OH hey guys newbie here also.Ive never clearcoated anything.But i want to try it on this mp4/20 im working on.The question is what about testors gloss clear?Is it any good?Everyone here talks about ts-13,zero,and all the rest but never testors to my knowledge.Is it a lacquer or enamel Ive heard its a lacquers but the can says enamel.

Didymus
06-11-2009, 01:22 AM
Is it a lacquer or enamel Ive heard its a lacquers but the can says enamel.

Unless it's part of Testor's new lacquer system, it's an enamel with a reputation for turning yellow over time. But you're more or less stuck with it - or softer-finish clear acrylic - if you're clear-coating enamel.

If you're clear-coating a synthetic lacquer like Tamiya TS-series or MM Lacquer System, or a single-part urethane, I suggest getting a couple of "power cans" of U-POL from Ditchek & Sons at:

http://yhst-13811118617756.stores.yahoo.net/uplajaclpoca.html.

U-POL is very similar to TS-13, but it's cheaper. I mean a LOT cheaper!

I think the problems with syn lacquers are the result of wet lacquer thinner reacting with styrene and/or decals. They can be overcome by starting with a couple of very light, dry coats.

Ddms

Tibi Keke
06-11-2009, 05:35 AM
OH..OH hey guys newbie here also.Ive never clearcoated anything.But i want to try it on this mp4/20 im working on.The question is what about testors gloss clear?Is it any good?Everyone here talks about ts-13,zero,and all the rest but never testors to my knowledge.Is it a lacquer or enamel Ive heard its a lacquers but the can says enamel.

Hi guiwee, what type of paint you want to clearcoat? If you want to clear only the paint TS 13 is good (with the condition that you spray over simillar Laquer paints, no enamel's, no acrilic from small buttels!), but don't spray to heavy coats. But if you want to clear the decals, than try to use Tamiya X 22 Acrilic or Gunze Sangyo Top Coat Gloss. The secound clear is sold in Spraycan. Tamiya TS 13 could melt the decals, and my experience is on the same carmodel as yours!

.vr6Love
06-11-2009, 10:10 AM
So if i read correctly all Tamiya's TS series is lacquer paint and i can just clear it like next day after my color coat's have dried?

guiwee
06-11-2009, 10:52 AM
My mistake guys>I only use ts-straight from the can.always .I dont have an airbrush.i wont use it over decals though.So none here recommends testors gloss huh?

gasdriverca
06-11-2009, 11:00 AM
I have no problems using TS-13 over my decals but I do the couple of Mist coat thing first then the heavy coat with no problems! then sand the final coat down with 2000grit and polish it out & finish with Tamiya finishing polish.

Didymus
06-11-2009, 11:15 AM
So if i read correctly all Tamiya's TS series is lacquer paint and i can just clear it like next day after my color coat's have dried?

Yes and yes.

TS paints have a nice gloss even if they aren't cleared, but you can spray the clear-coat minutes after spraying the color coat if you like. I wait a day or two before sanding, though.

TS and U-POL are not traditional nitrocellulose lacquers. They are synthetic lacquers that aren't nearly as "hot" as the old lacquers. Many folks - including the nice people at my LHS - insist that you can even spray TS over cured enamel. I haven't tried this myself.

Both U-POL and TS12 clear coats contain thinner that can react badly with some decals, causing bubbling and other problems. This is easily solved by spraying first few coats thin and light and "dry." In other words, hold the nozzle at least 12 inches away from the model, and don't allow the paint to puddle. After a couple of light coats, a wetter coat will work just fine.

Ddms

racer93
06-11-2009, 11:34 AM
TS and U-POL are not traditional nitrocellulose lacquers. They are synthetic lacquers that aren't nearly as "hot" as the old lacquers.

So you've had great results with U-POL, ddms? Care to post any pics with it's results? I'd like to see it. It seems quite a bit cheaper, and that's always good. I'm seeing if it's worth going to from Future...

Thanks!

Daniel

rhdmiklo
06-11-2009, 12:28 PM
Thanks alot for your time. The knowledge on this forum is excellent. But, now for my last question. After clear, how long do I wait till I can use rubbing compound?

Didymus
06-11-2009, 12:29 PM
I'm out of town for a week, but when I get back, I'll take some photos of the U-POL'd 917 and post them. In the meantime, I'll just say it's very shiny.

Using Tamiya Dark Green, the Lotus 25 paint came out just fine without a clearcoat, so I'm gonna leave it un-cleared unless the decals look too dull.

Ddms

klutz_100
06-11-2009, 12:36 PM
Using Tamiya Dark Green, the Lotus 25 paint came out just fine without a clearcoat, so I'm gonna leave it un-cleared unless the decals look too dull.
The decals look fine but the "Team LOTUS" thin yellow stripes do not adhere very well so watch out yours don't also end up in the waste disposal :D:D
see here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5983076&postcount=37) ;)

Didymus
06-11-2009, 12:41 PM
If you choose to apply Tamiya's clear gloss (no. TS-13) over a Tamiya color finish, you'll need to be careful when you apply it. You have two choices: you can add the clear coat immediately after applying the last wet color coat, or you can apply the clear coat after the color coat has cured and gassed out for at least a month. Tamiya's clear gloss paint cures at a different rate than the color paints in the line. If you wait even a day to apply the clear gloss, the different curing rates will cause the clear finish to crack.


To be blunt, I think that's misinformation. I have never known Tamiya TS13 to "crack," no matter how long I wait after the color coat. It that were a problem, the forums would be filled with howls of complaint about it.

Tamiya's products are generally excellent. Such a serious compatibility problem with two of their own products that are intended to be used together does not fit their profile. At all.

As to polishing, I give it a day or two.

Ddms

Didymus
06-11-2009, 12:45 PM
The decals look fine but the "Team LOTUS" thin yellow stripes do not adhere very well so watch out yours don't also end up in the waste disposal :D:D
see here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5983076&postcount=37) ;)

Thanks!

I just attached one of them, and it was pretty tricky. It's so long and thin that I was worried about tearing it. If one part is moved, the rest of that long strand has to be re-aligned, so I was also concerned that the adhesive would be gone after all that moving about.

Ddms

.vr6Love
06-11-2009, 01:33 PM
To be blunt, I think that's misinformation. I have never known Tamiya TS13 to "crack," no matter how long I wait after the color coat. It that were a problem, the forums would be filled with howls of complaint about it.

Tamiya's products are generally excellent. Such a serious compatibility problem with two of their own products that are intended to be used together does not fit their profile. At all.

As to polishing, I give it a day or two.

Ddms

I wouldnt know, as i said i have 0 experience. I was looking at tutorials on the Scale Auto site. Thanks for clearing it up though :thumbsup:

ZoomZoomMX-5
06-11-2009, 01:44 PM
To be blunt, I think that's misinformation. I have never known Tamiya TS13 to "crack," no matter how long I wait after the color coat. It that were a problem, the forums would be filled with howls of complaint about it.

Tamiya's products are generally excellent. Such a serious compatibility problem with two of their own products that are intended to be used together does not fit their profile. At all.

As to polishing, I give it a day or two.

Ddms

No, it's not misinformation, but it might be a product of the past. I have known a couple well-respected builders/painters that did have a couple models where the TS13 cracked, and Tamiya used to have a notification on their website for this problem because the TS13 cured at a different rate than TS colors. It's from the horse's mouth where the "within one hour or after one month" timeframe became public. I had TS13 crack when applied over Black Gold/HOK paint one time, happened w/in a week of applying. It's barely noticeable only in subtle side-lighting, but it did happen and if you saw the model in person you might understand.

I have not heard of any problems in the past few years, I assume Tamiya quietly adjusted their chemicals and the problem is no more. In general I've never had a problem because I start applying clear immediately after color, even if just a light coat. Last night I applied first coats of TS42 Lt. Gunmetal (decanted) to my Tamiya 370Z (yes, you heard that right :tongue:), this AM I scuffed it w/3200, fixed a couple areas w/a polishing stick where mold lines were still showing (shot over plastic, no primer), reshot the TS42 (it's great in that it is pigment-dense), mixed a little TS13 w/the TS42, then a good thin coat of TS13, let it flash, followed by a thin/wet coat of Gunze solvent-based gloss clear (it's a barrier, it doesn't affect the TS paint unlike TS13 that will cause halos around panel lines if TS13 is shot too wet too fast), let that dry a few in the dehydrator, then back to TS13 in light coats followed by a couple coats straight from the spray can. All of the above w/in an hour or so. It's been sitting in the dehydrator now for about 5 hours, it's very smooth, and ready to buff now if I want to. Smooth enough that I don't need much more than the 3 Tamiya compounds. Why wait overnight? :biggrin:

Didymus
06-11-2009, 02:25 PM
The decals look fine but the "Team LOTUS" thin yellow stripes do not adhere very well so watch out yours don't also end up in the waste disposal :D:D
see here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5983076&postcount=37) ;)

Aaaaaaargh! Despite your cautions and the experience of doing the left side successfully, now there are two of us. I just emailed HLJ and asked them to send me a replacement sheet.

Their FAQ on how to order spares is at http://www.hlj.com/faq/q41.html.

Ddms

Didymus
06-11-2009, 03:25 PM
Why wait overnight? :biggrin:

I've been assuming that you get a better shine if the paint is really, really dry. Of course, living in Southern California, the climate is my dehydrator, but it's probably not as good as a real dehydrator. :evillol:

Maybe the new paints don't take that long and I'm working from old or misunderstood information.

Ddms

guiwee
06-11-2009, 03:30 PM
This is kind of a two-part thread reply..I just got my renco food dehydrator and im going to experiment with it and the testors gloss cote lacquer.I painted an mp/20 from revell ts-30 let dry for 3 days then painted ts-40 yesterday.According to you guys i can spray the clear now.. right? NOone said anything about testors so ill give it a try.Gonna do about 3 mist coats put it in dehydrator for an hour after each coat on a temp of 115 degrees F.then two heavier coats.Any comments about this?

ZoomZoomMX-5
06-11-2009, 03:36 PM
I've been assuming that you get a better shine if the paint is really, really dry. Of course, living in Southern California, the climate is my dehydrator, but it's probably not as good as a real dehydrator. :evillol:

Maybe the new paints don't take that long and I'm working from old or misunderstood information.

Ddms

I just constantly push boundaries mostly because I'm impatient and want to get stuff done fast. 95% of the time I don't have any paint issues from buffing out after only a short time in the dehydrator. Sometimes I need to re-buff it later if it wasn't fully cured and shrinks down a bit more. My 370Z can be buffed now, but it will sit overnight in the dehydrator. Someone once said for ever 10 degrees above ambient, a dehydrator (or any force-drying contraption) cuts drying time in half. My basement is about 70 degrees and usually a bit humid (our weather now is typical summer warm/humid, nothing like SoCal). My dehydrator is about 110 degrees. Overnight/24 hours will make my model as dry as 16 days ambient.

ZoomZoomMX-5
06-11-2009, 03:41 PM
This is kind of a two-part thread reply..I just got my renco food dehydrator and im going to experiment with it and the testors gloss cote lacquer.I painted an mp/20 from revell ts-30 let dry for 3 days then painted ts-40 yesterday.According to you guys i can spray the clear now.. right? NOone said anything about testors so ill give it a try.Gonna do about 3 mist coats put it in dehydrator for an hour after each coat on a temp of 115 degrees F.then two heavier coats.Any comments about this?

Testors gloss lacquer dries really fast, even faster than Tamiya. The new one-coat stuff feels dry to the touch in about 20 mins. or so. You should have zero problems. 115 might be slightly hot; aim for 110. If I were misting/drying and reshooting I'd consider scuffing out any dust nibs that might occur during the process before recoating. Otherwise I'd probably try to do the mist coats together in shorter intervals. It really depends on your own technique how wet each coat you lay down is and how fast you make the passes as to how quickly you can paint it w/o it running when you get to the wet coats.

guiwee
06-11-2009, 03:49 PM
Thanks zoom i appreciate the timely response!!You guys are such a fountain of knowledge!!

Emilssi
06-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Hello everyone,
Does anyone use Humbrol clear coat? I've recently used it on my model and it seems to be OK but does anyone know weather it will turn yellow in the future?
Cheers

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