hello, im working with an 81 fairmont. 6 cylinder. the problem is it takes FOREVER to start. well it seems like forever. it will crank and crank and crank, while giving gas on and off a little bit. then it will finally start. it always starts. but never right away. just takes lots of cranking. the fuel and air filters have been replaced along with a fresh oil change. also new plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor. '

if you drive it for a little bit, then shut it off, it will start right back up. just dont let it sit for more then 5-10 minutes or its back to the beginning

any ideas?? please.....

If I remember correctly 81 to 83 Ford Fairmount have a carburetor push the gas pedal to the floor make sure the choke plate closes. Normally it takes two pushes to the floor to prime the carburetor. Some times the accelerator pump goes bad or the float level needs adjusted.
After it starts make sure the vacuum pull off opens the choke appx. 1/4 inch.
Napa used to have a good supply and quality carburetor parts.

i know NOTHING about carburetors. im not sure how to check and make sure the vacuum pull off opens the choke 1/4 inch.
before that, were you saying i need to press the gas to the floor 1-2 times before i start it?

This is the way to start a car with a carburetor push the gas pedal to the floor twice this primes the engine and closes the choke. Hold about the gas pedal 50% and try to start.
I would suggest buying a carburetor manual and reading it in your spare time.

I would suggest buying a carburetor manual and reading it in your spare time.

lol, defenitely. already planned on that

is there anything ignition related, that i havent already done, that could be causing this problem?

Their are a few things ignition related. I would take a can of starting fluid take the top off of the air cleaner push the choke open a little and give it a couple of sprays sit the top on and try to start. If it starts up immediately its fuel related.

thanks for the advice. also, thanks for helping me along with this. before i start it i try pumping the gas twice and holding it at %50 then cranking (like you said). this helps, sometimes. less then half the time actually but it does help a little. the starting fluid made no difference. what are some of the ignition things that could cause this?

well after trying the starting fluid more and more throughout the day i found that it does help.....

I would take the module to Advanced or Auto Zone and get it checked free.
Haynes manual shows you how to ohm the coil.
Use a 12 volt test light on the coil negative it should blink when trying to start.

the module passed 6 out of 6 tests. according to the fuel pump test described in the haynes manual, the fuel pump is good. i can not find how to ohm the coil anywhere.
is there any chance a bad catalytic converter could be causing this issue? i thought about disconnecting that just to see if it makes a difference.......
is there anything else ignition related that i could try? i was thinking the timing but once it gets started, it runs perfectly.
the haynes manual gives ALOT of info about the 4 and 8 cylinder carbs but not very much on the 6 cylinder. i took it off the car, cleaned the hell out of it, replaced the detiorated vacuum hoses, and still no difference. i know it has the holley 1946 1v carburetor, and i have searched the internet endlessly, and have not come up with jack for info on this thing...

well i used the internet to figure out how to ohm my coil, its good.

I still think its your carburetor go to a parts store like Napa and price a rebuild kit. You need the number off the little metal tag on the carburetor. Their are instructions in the kit. Check the intake and base of carburetor nuts and bolts for tightness.

i read "carburetor kit" and thought wow, sounds expensive, but autozone has them for $20. does that sound right? from the pic it shows several gaskets and a few small parts....

alright, i went to autozone to buy the kit. i took the carburetor apart, rebuilt it using all the new parts that came in the kit, followed the instructions as much as i could (they were quite poor) and now it actually runs worse. i had to raise the idle to help it a little. It now dies while driving, like when i let off the gas to go to make a turn or something. And it still does not start right away either.

What did you use to clean the carburetor. You have to soak them or use carburetor cleaner and blow through orifices then blow out with an air hose.
Or you can boil in an old kettle for appx. 20 min. rolling boil.
I think you loosened some dirt and didn't get it all.
Make sure all plastic or rubber parts are removed first.
Shake the float make sure it isn't leaking.

i used carb cleaner. the float sounded empty when i had it out of the carb, is there supposed to be something in it?? also it dies ONLY when making relatively sharp left turns. left turns ONLY.....

i took the carb back off and found this! the new gasket leaves a nice opening for fuel to spill out of the bowl, you can see how the old gasket covered it. guess i need to buy another kit from a different store

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/jakegday/100_3219.jpg

No, floats are supposed to be empty. If you shake it and hear a sloshing sound, it means the float is leaking gas inside and is sinking... like the Titanic. A leaking float will not do the job.

Often, carb kits are made with a variety of gaskets to fit a variety of carb designs. Is there another gasket in the kit that might fit better???? Or try flipping that gasket upside down???

nope, no other fuel bowl gasket, and it IS on correctly. i found a carb kit on napas website that has the correct gasket (at least in the picture)

the float is empty for sure. the guy at autozone said i should replace it anyways when rebuilding the carb. what do you guys think?

the float is empty for sure. the guy at autozone said i should replace it anyways when rebuilding the carb. what do you guys think?
If it's a plastic float, yes.

Brass float, not necessary.

If that's the float showing in your pic, it's brass.

alright, finally got the carb back together with with the new kit, kinda a bitch since a few of the threads on the bowl were stripped, but nevertheless, i got it back together. it didnt fix my problem, car runs just like before, but now a hair worse, it died twice while out on the "test" drive. it almost seemed like it was starving for fuel. so i said hell with it, $3 for a filter and $25 for a pump. the only possible things i could think of to make sure its getting the appropriate amount of fuel. the guy i bought it from said he already replaced the fuel filter, but since it was the cheaper of the 2, it is what i tried first. and ill be a son of a bitch if it didnt work, she fires right up and drives like a new car now. keep in mind ive only been driving it for a few hours now. i may get back on here tomorrow pissed as all hell saying it still doesnt work right, but knock on wood, shes running awesome!

well forget that.....
the fuel filter did make a difference in how the vehicle performs, however it STILL takes forever to start after sitting a little bit..... any ideas???? im out, besides taking it to a shop, which i really cant justify for this vehicle

They have a spring which closes the choke. You can try adjusting it a little tighter more rich. Make sure the choke is closed when you press the gas pedal to the floor. After it starts the vacuum pull off will open the choke some what the adjust picture should be in the rebuild manual. Use a drill to set gap.

For a car that old, I would do a compression check. If you have a leaky inlet valve, it tends to blow gases back into the manifold on the compression stroke for that cylinder, which messes up the induction for the next cylinder in the firing order. It could be a worn valve or a lifter that was sticking. Also, based on its age, I would think about a new rotor. Are the ignition wires fairly 'young', i.e. less than 6 or 8 years old?
Unless you are really good at rebuilding carburetors, I would think the carburetor was still the weakest item. Carbs dont last forever, and getting it rebuilt by someone who does Holley rebuilding might make a difference. I have to rebuild the Holley in my motorhome about each 8 years, or it starts to let the fuel leak out of the float bowl. The result is hard starting (if its been sitting more than a few days since last running); with a long time cranking to bring the fuel up into the carburetor. Also, the leak could let fuel run down into the intake manifold, which makes starting hard when the engine is still warm - due to the extra fuel in the manifold making it too rich! The carburetor-to-intake-manifold base gasket is probably important, as it may be what 'completes' some of the vacuum and fuel percolation passages.

And with age, the spring or bimetal coil that holds the choke shut is likely to lose some of its strength. I find I had to adjust those automatic chokes to run in the summer, and to run in the winter. Neither setting worked well for an entire year of weather extremes. The result is that my older vehicles (I have a couple of vehicles from the 70's with mopar V8's in them) that were made with automatic chokes, have been converted to use manual chokes.

I congrate you on having an 81 Fairmont that you still run. I always liked that size Ford better than the full size sedans of the time.

i will borrow the tool from autozone and check the compression as soon as possible

They have a spring which closes the choke.

are you referring to the spring type thermostat thing, that has and electrical connector on it?

just got done testing the compression, all cylinders had 130psi except the #4 clyinder which only had 120. is that enough of a difference to be causing the problem im having? or does my problem most likely lie elsewhere?

That's what I was referring to also check for power to the plug.
I normally look for 15 to 20 difference maybe more on older vehicles.

If the car had been sitting, one of the valves on #4 cylinder might have been partly open, and could have picked up a little rust on the face. But like was posted, a difference that small on a car over 25 years old - is normal, and wouldnt be the reason it was hard to start.

The automatic choke would either have a wire coming out of it - which would have 12 volts on it when the engine was running, or it would have a tube that fed heat up from the exhaust manifold. Inside that unit is the bimetallic coil, and they age (just like we do) and dont make as many degrees of change per temperature as when new. Ive never bought a new one (Im too cheap), so I just make do, or make it a manual choke.
Could another thing that might have to do with hard starting be an EGR valve that was stuck 'open'.
How many miles are on the Fairmont by the way?

a little more then 110,000 miles. i messed with the choke some, it didnt seem to make much of a difference. there is electricity getting to the thermostat/spring.
i started pulling off the air pump and all of its hoses today, since its connections to the exhaust system had rotted away. after i got all that removed, i had a much better view of all these vacuum lines. alot of them have cracked/melted/and just plain broke. i found that the vacuum line on the distributor was connected to pretty much nothing, along with the line coming off the bottom of the carb. i went to the parts store and got 3 feet of vacuum line and connected the distributor to the bottom of the carb, and so far, that has completely fixed my starting problem. does that seem possible? i guess ill know for sure after she sits overnight......

well its the next day now.... and she is starting just fine. after more and more driving i dont think the new vacuum line is what did it, i think it was a combination of the vacuum line and the choke adjustment. the way i have it set now, before i start the car i press on the gas. when i do this now, it closes the choke all the way, completely shut. (unlike before) she fires up in an instant, that vacuum thing opens the choke a hair, and then it opens all the way with time/heat. the only thing im worried about is going to start it when its still hot, the choke not closing all the way, and it not starting right away....
now another problem, which really isnt much of a problem at all. when i start the car, she idles at the curb speed, then when she gets up to temperature, she idles at the "choke" speed. its reversed...... if this is my biggest problem ive got nothing to worry about, but any input on that??

Look at the diagram that came with the carburetor kit I think the linkage may have been installed incorrectly.
You have learned a lot on this job.

yes i have learned quite a bit. one thing ive learned is to quit posting my results without waiting more then 2 hours. lol. the starting problem, unfortunately, has not been solved. denisond mentioned he had to adjust his choke between summer and winter. well i have to adjust mine between night and day. and even then, sometimes it still doesnt fire up in an acceptable amount of time. a new choke thermostat is $30, i found a new carb on ebay for $55 shipped, (which includes a new choke thermostat) so i bought the new carb. ill post at the end of the week how it performs....

Choke thermostats have a nut you can loosen and a place to use a screwdriver to adjust. Then tighten the adjustment nut, its been a while since I done one and I maybe thinking of another car.

no, thats pretty much exactly how it works....

alright, ive had the new carburetor on for about 2 days now. it is completely safe to say that it is not the problem. the car still starts like dogsh*t..

any other ideas?

At this time is starting the only problem or do you have other problems.
Does this car have a mechanical advance or is the timing computer controlled.
If you have a vacuum advance pull the hose and try to move it by sucking on it or use a vacuum pump. Sometimes they stick and cause hard starting.

starting is the only problem, once its started, it runs great. no heistation, no stalling. i believe it has a mechanical advance. theres a vacuum hose coming off the distributor. when i connect it to the manifold vacuum connection, it raises the rpms quite a bit.
according to the haynes manual that vacuum line is supposed to go to a "switch" on the coolant hose. when the coolant reaches 128 degrees, something in that switch changes something else. the haynes manual does a poor poor job of explaining all of that (keep in mind im dealing with a melted/rotted vacuum line mess, many connections no longer exist and im not sure where every one of them goes)

so what exactly should be done with that vacuum line on the distributor? ive tried just connecting it to the vacuum source on the manifold, it doesnt make a difference, just raises the rpms once it gets started

http://www.ebay.com/ Search 250448220278 Look at picture this is a picture of a vacuum switch. Usually they thread in around the intake or thermostat housing. Hook one end up to engine vacuum and the other end up to the vacuum advance on the distributor.
Use carburetor cleaner and spray around the intake manifold and carburetor base. Any leak you hit will smooth the engine. Work on tracking down all vacuum hoses and connecting them.
Plug the vacuum advance and set base timing then connect as suggested.
Look for a vacuum diagram on the fender well.

help, my fairmont is doing same thing, did any one fig this one out,
jim.at.universal@gmail.com

Try pumping the gas pedal all the way to the floor twice. Then push down 1/2 way and try to start.