My check engine light came on, the code is a misfire on cylinder #2 I have replaced spark plug and wire and the light is still on. tonight i will test to see if i am getting a spark to the spark plug. If every thing is working as it should I will take it down to get a compression test.
Are there any other suggestion as to what could be causing this problem?
I am preparing my self mentaly for an engine overhaul ooo boy this will be fun :uhoh:

96 geo metro 3cylinder 1L 207,000miles.

The compression test will reveal that answer. You probably have a burnt valve. Look here for lots of help rebuilding the engine..............
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=938134

well the worst is here. the compression readings are 140 30 and 130 so now i will begin a massive studing of the posts and haynes model to prepare for the rebuild.
Thanks johnny for all of those thread links, that is some really good information and will be my holy grail for the next week or so.

You can do it!

Don't loose the oil restrictor/check valve thingy that's in the block between the timing belt end of the engine and the # 1 cylinder. Also, compare the head gasket to the oil drainback holes in the head and the block, most gaskets need to be opened up a little.

Have a look at the INDEXUS METROGLODITUS .....

I just rebuilt my 1.0 in March. The Haynes Manual does not have nearly as much info as you need to rebuild the motor yourself. The Chiltons and the factory service manual are much better for a DIY engine rebuild. You can find the factory service manual on Ebay.

Good luck with you project. Don't forget to change the front crank seal
while you are in there. I didn't and had to go back and get it.

Regards

thanks for the info guys, I will buy the chiltion manual today. I cleaned the engine labled all the hoses, removed the intake manifold and valve cover on sunday. the only problem was that dang valve cover, who invented those round nuts under the locking nuts? I spent two hours trying to figure out why the valve cover would not come off. hitting it with rubber malat, hitting it with wood block cutting the gasket with double edged razor.
I think it was the third beer that told me to use needle nose plers on the round thing that did not look right.

Here is a ? on the front of my engine above the oil pan I have a bunch of threaded holes with no bolts in them are they suppose to be empty?

timing belt, exhaust manifold and head off tonight 7 days untill the deadline.

Have you done this sort of thing before?

If not, then maybe this will help you....maybe....

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=613410

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=645309

Have a look - this is my rebuild with pictures - for what it is worth.

If you have rebuilt engines before, then - have fun.

I sent you a Private Message.

DoctorBill

No I have not done this type of thing before.

Thank you I am quite familar with these threads you all have done an excellent job making this seem feasable.

Are there any suggustions tips on how to remove the crankshaft center nut? I can not keep the pully from turning. I will try a chain wrench tonight if i can find one 3 stores last night had nothing of the sort.

TIP: checker has a deal now were you can rent tools for 48hr and get a full refund on them. free tool rental, hip hip herra for checker.

No I have not done this type of thing before.

Thank you I am quite familar with these threads you all have done an excellent job making this seem feasable.

Are there any suggustions tips on how to remove the crankshaft center nut? I can not keep the pully from turning. I will try a chain wrench tonight if i can find one 3 stores last night had nothing of the sort.

TIP: checker has a deal now were you can rent tools for 48hr and get a full refund on them. free tool rental, hip hip herra for checker.

Do a search for "Crank Sprocket" for the procedure. I just did it last weekend. You use the starter to do the work. It works pretty good although I did have to do it three times before it came loose.

One of the best tips I got on this board was to remove the flywheel cover (2 10mm bolts just to the right side of the oil pan) and stick a thin screw driver in the teeth to lock the engine internals when the time comes to put the crank bolt back in. Of course don't forget and leave it in there :nono: because that could be bad.

Sounds like you are moving along pretty quick.
Good luck!

Alright working on the car is a lot less stressfull than not working on it. I got everything off last night with no misshaps.

I did not have any ridges on my cylinder walls nothing smooth as silk. there was 3mm of carbon at the top but no ridge. So now that i am not working on the car why is this? Is this bad?

also I may have pulled a dumb dumb move i just put a plastic bag over the oil pan crankshaft area and 30mph winds all day i may be spending the next 2 weeks cleaning out my engine.

1st stupid thing done: check

Doctorbill and partcipents excelent excelent post on how to hone cylinders and measure ring gap.

Cleaning things tonight and honing tommorow.

aawww! I was cleaning the piston, holding on to the arm and now it shifts in the skirt side to side. the hole that goes threw the skirt shifts also so one side will be resessed in a bit.

Is this suppose to happen? it sure does not sound good it is a loud knock when it shifts.

Why is it important not to scratch the piston skirt?

my scotch dish pad would turn this into a 10 min project.

the piston is supposed to shift side to side and rock. you can carefully clean the top of the piston with skotch pad but don't use it on the sides. piston is aluminum and if you skuff it up it will remove material so that piston will be to loose in the block. also make sure you get the ring grooves perfectly clean and check pistons carefully for cracks

While its important to get the piston ring grooves clean, there is no point to cleaning any carbon off the sides of the piston. Any place it accumulated before it will just accumulate again. But in the bottoms/sides of the ring grooves, cleanliness is important.
When checking for cracks in pistons, I use a magnifying glass in a strong light.
if there is little or no 'ridge' at the top of the cylinder wall, I would probably just scuff up the cylinder wall glaze with some 100 grit emery paper. I have done that a few times when rebuilding other engines.

thank you, that had me worried now i see they all do slide and move.

Why does the second cylinder not have an oppisite end from the bearing on the crankshaft? the first and third cylinders have a pair of curved pieces with three half holes on them the second cylinder has no such thing. I am wondering why.

I vagly remember a descussion like this in one of doc threads but i could not find it.

honing is done it was pretty simple i dont think i acheived 60 degree cross hatches but it looks like it will surfice. Now i clean while i wait for the rest of the parts which should arrive on tuesday, bummed i didnt order them a day sooner to get them before the weekend.

Some important notes. There is a small check valve on the block on the front passenger side. Don't lose it! If you are buying a head gasket online and it's the silver type (Apex brand) make sure to compare the gasket with the oil passages. Some of these gaskets do not have the oil return holes large enough and can cause smoking at high RPM driving. You can cut the gasket to make it work, or get a Felpro brand.

the check valve is the brass flat head screw looking thing that is a bit recessed?

That's the critter.

All three rods should have bearing shells where they attach to the crank. Maybe the ones for the center cylinder stuck to the crank?

http://www.cdxetextbook.com/images/350px-Crankshaft.jpg

Alright the part that is diffrent on the second cylinder would be the counter balance to the piston bearing. the first and third are longer with three holes on the top end of them. so on the picture it would be the part opposite of were the pistion attaches.
Hummm I need to find an engine parts dictionary for dummies with nice big pictures so i can learn the correct terms.

Wait a minute. Here is a diagram. Are you saying that the bottom half of part number 21 is not there? The bearing cap is missing? Are the bearings there?

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/planetetf/Engine-Explodedview.jpg

think he means the crank counterweight

http://www.projectm71.com/counterweight1.jpg

No No the bearings and bearing caps are there. the half moon on the diagram farthest to the right is the part that is in question. i believe it to be the counter weight for the piston. the second cylinder has one however it is diffrent from the other two cylinders.

:banghead::banghead::banghead: one bolt to go to remove the water pump and snap, broken. I have four inches to work with and all 90 degree drills are four inches so they will not work.

what i have come up with so far is to get a keyless chuck and attach a u bolt with rod around it. this will hopefully allow me to drill it out by hand. I have room north and south to rotate the rod around.

1. any other suggestions out there?

2. also i now need new water pump bolts. i measured one at 23mm, will a 25mm bolt work? are the 2mm lost due to age?

3. the haynes manual says to replace the rubber seals between the water pump, oil pump, and head. where would one get these rubber seals? Auto zone had no idea what they were.

Extracting this broken bolt is going to blow! There is no room to work and the bolt was probably super tight and siezed anyway, so using an extractor would be wasted time unless you can drill completely through the broken bolt.

Worst case scenario, the broken bolt can be forgotten. Use a really good RTV sealant like "The Right Stuff" or "Permatex black" around the entire gasket on both sides and tighten it down. I have done this before and have gotten away with doing this without any leaks more times than not. Depending on the gap, it may never leak, but that's not my call.

I cannot specify the bolt length for you, but if it were me, I would use a slighlty shorter bolt. I would not want to puncture anything internally on a bolt too long.

Rubber seals? The coolant tube behind the engine has an O-ring where it inserts to the back of the water pump. If it ain't leakin, don't fix it especially if the coolant tube is rusty and the risk of breaking it is there.

Good luck!

what size tap do you use for the head bolts? there is a 10mm 1.25 and a 10mm 1.5?

well i scrapped replacing the oil pump because another bolt was going to break, i felt it twisting.

I ended up having to drill out the broken bolt on the water pump. easyouts and extractors did not work. pistons are in and tommarow could be the final day, i hope

yess. it starts. timing is off so i will have to get a timing light tommarrow. i have read up on timing guns and light and still have no idea how they work. hopefully there is some instructions that come with them.

the timing marks on on the timing belt cover but what mark do you move to change the timing? do i have to remove the cover to see the marks on the crankshaft sproket and camshaft? i am confused.

people make it sound simple, hopefully it makes sense with the tool in hand.

The timing light is a strobe light - it fires very fast (microseconds) and is very bright like a camera's Electronic Flash.

The spark going to the number one cylinder causes the Timing Light to fire.

When the spark goes to cylinder number one, the piston is supposed to be in a
very specific place (approaching top dead center).

The time when the spark to number one cylinder is made is determined by the
position of the Distributor.

There is a mark on the main crankshaft pulley and some degree marks on the Timing Belt Cover
right next to the crankshaft pulley.

Using "Whiteout" for typing correction, highlight the Pulley mark and the degree marks for better viewing.

http://alkaspace.com/usr/3754/Timing_Belt_Cov.jpg

As the engine is running, the Timing Light pops on for a microsecond when the spark to number one cylinder fires.

The position of the number one piston is obviously related to the position of the mark on the Crankshaft pulley.

One shines the Timing Light on the Main crankshaft Pulley and the "Strobe Effect" lights up the
Timing Mark AND the Degree Marks on the Timing Belt Cover as seen below...

http://alkaspace.com/usr/3754/Fin-Timing_Mark.jpg

The strobe Effect makes the Crankshaft Pulley Timing Mark appear to stand still just as a Strobe Light
makes fan blades appear to stand still.

One loosens and rotates the Distributor, thus changing when the spark goes to the Number One Cylinder
and this change is noted in the apparent position of the Crankshaft Pulley Timing Mark (#3 in the Photo) as one rotates the Distributor.

Usually one rotates the Distributor until the Timing Mark is at 5, 10 or 15 degrees BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER
while the engine is running and then tightens down the Distributor Clamp Bolt.

I don't remember what the setting should be. Someone else can address that.

But the Strobing Effect of the number one cylinder spark shows you where the
piston is in relation to the Crankshaft Pulley
and thus where the piston is in relation to when the spark fires off.

And...if I remember correctly, you have to put a shorting wire into specific places on a socket
on the right side of the firewall when you do this timing -
to tell the computer to disregard what you are doing and not try to correct.

OK - Is that now clear as mud...? Or did I screw it up.....

DoctorBill

That's a very good explanation of IGNITION timing, DOC. There's also VALVE timing, a different thing, that may be confusing kais3. The timing belt that connects the crankshaft to the camshaft must be set correctly, it's not an adjustment per se as it's either spot on or it's wrong.

Doctor Bill's second picture shows the valve timing, when #3 is on 0, the timing belt determines whether #'s 1 and 2 align. This must be right first or setting ignition timing is a waste of time.

Alright that does make good sense. now looking in the book and remembering correctly to rotate the distributor i have to turn the crankshaft pulley. yes?

The haynes manual states that the ignition timing is under hood for a sprint it is 10 BTDC (top dead center) what is the B stand for?

So i would then line up this mark on the crankshaft pulley with the number 10 on the timing belt cover numbers if this was a sprint.

I think i got it. it has been so long since i heard this car running i forgot what it is suppose to sound like.

"Alright that does make good sense. now looking in the book and remembering correctly to rotate
the distributor i have to turn the crankshaft pulley. yes?"

No !

You start the engine, shine the Timing Light on the bottom of the Timing Belt
Cover, and rotate the Distributor until the Crankshaft Pulley mark is at the
setting you want.

BTW - the Timing Light is connected to the number one spark plug on the left
side of the engine.

The Crankshaft Pulley mark should be at zero when the Timing Pulley is setting
at the mark on the Valve Cover Flange (see #3 in my previous posting).

Once those marks are aligned (by setting the Timing Belt), you THEN time the
engine with the distributor and Timing Light.

It is cumbersome as the distributor is on the opposite side of the engine where you
are watching the Timing Light.

For God's sake, don't let the Timing Light fall down into that belt while you are
rotating the Distributor !

You may need a female companion/helper for that job and then for later on...to help
with timing other things - you know...for longer than 30 seconds !

DoctorBill

how do you rotate the distributor?

when i set the timing belt the marks on the crankshaft sproket and camshaft were positioned where they needed to be. when i placed the pulley on the crankshaft the little notch painted white is not lined up with the 0 marking on the timing cover.

are you saying these all need to match?

I hope not seeing as the crankshaft sproket allows the pulley to go on only one way due to the little knob it needs to fit into.

as i look at it right now the crankshaft pulley mark is about an inch and a half to the the right of the 0 mark.

alright i can rotate the distributor by loseing the two nuts on the that flare out to the side, i believe that is how people discribe it. this does not allow much room for rotation however.

I removed the number one piston and tdc when the air comes out the pully mark is pointing directly at the passenger seat a quarter pulley from the 0 mark.

does this matter?

should the mark be at the 0 when the first piston is at tdc

I am going to go shoot the light and see what it tells me, maybe i am overthinking all this. but then agian one mistake and all this time and effort and i get to do it all over agian.

by the way the B in BTDC is before which makes sense

You have to have the timing cover off and the crank pulley. Remove the 4 or 5 small bolts from the crank pulley and remove the pulley. Remove the entire cover. Now rotate the engine to TDC and the little mark on the timing belt sprocket (not the pulley for timing light) should line up to the marks. The crank should line up and also the camshaft marks. The distributor rotor should be pointing almost straight up to the #1 spark plug wire connection.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/planetetf/tb.jpg

Yep I aligned the crankshaft and camshaft to the right marks.

I could not get the timing light to work arrgh must have been built on friday. so i just rotated the distributor untill the car sounded good. I then took it for a little spin to the gas station 2 blocks away and ran out of gas one block from the house, that was a good heart stopper.

She seemed like she ran fine alot more get up and go than before.

took her 60 miles to work today and she ran real good, stopped smokin. I will check my gas mileage tommarow night and may try a new timing light if it is below 45mpg's

No need for the timing light. Here is how I time them............

Mark your distributor so you know where you are set now.
Loosen the 2 bolts and advance (turn clockwise) it a little.
Take your tools and test drive.
Listen for "ping" or "spark knock" on accel or load.
Advance in small steps till it starts to ping and retard in very small steps until ping is gone.
This would be your ideal setting for ignition timing.

I have mine advanced pretty far especially with the cam and gear change and I run premium fuel to prevent spark knock.

well my check engine light came on a block from work today. i finally made it down to the auto parts store and recived a P0420 catalyst efficency below threshold code.

I have suspected my 02 senser to be getting on in years for the last couple months however; since i just got done rebuilding my engine can this have something to do with that? is this fortelling of a bigger problem down the road?

P.S. I just replaced my cat converter in nov 08.

Johnny what does spark knock sound like?
is it just a knocking engine?

Roll up the windows and turn off the radio so you can hear better. Under load ie. rapid acceleration, going up a hill,etc. is when you are most likely to hear pinging. It's going to sound like marbles rattling under the hood. If you have engine pinging, there are two ways to get rid of it. One is using a higher octane fuel (may or may not fix the problem if the timing is jacked way up), the other is to retard the timing.

A timing light is not very expensive ($25 or so) or you can rent them from tool rental places.

You don't need a "super-dooper-pooper-scooper" kind, just a simple one.
Harbor Freight has one for $25, I believe. Sears, Shucks, NAPA,.....

Why not just do as the manual says and use a timing light? i.e. do it right.

A timing Light is kinda an essential tool for automotive repair and tune ups.

No guessing.

DoctorBill

A poorly running engine will screw up a new cat. Sometimes you can burn them out by driving the car like you stole it up to 60 MPH, then let off the gas in gear down to 30 MPH several times. This helps burn up old deposited carbon.