2001 losing oil

Hello again,

this car aint making me younger :banghead:, I had it for about ~5 months now, drove ~5000Miles, and noticed that i need to add about a quart of engine oil each ~3000 miles. Once i bought it, i replaced the oil + filter, checked the PCV (seems ok, i could hear the ball when i took it off), changed plugs + wires, heater core, front suspension end, 4 wheels, EVAP vent valve.......

I park the car regularly on tiles just to assure no leaks, and it doesn't leak, looked at the engine and no major oil leaks (just a little "oil moisture" near the intake manifold) - any clue were the oil is going ?

btw, the car has ~85K miles, 2001 Lesabre Custom, didn't think a 85K miles engine could be actually burning oil or something :mad:

your help is appreciated.
Gilmour

in my past some times the type of oil you use make a diffrents next time use a diffrent oil have you done a compression test or with the engine running see how much blowby you have pull the oil fill cap off are some thing i can think of doing you pcv working correctly i see you think its working but in the past i have seen these fail it cheap change it

This can also occur from intake gaskets causing oil to migrate into the manifold, my 3800 had loose inside corner bolts in the lower intake and oil was migrating up the bolts into the lower intake.

\this car aint making me younger :banghead:, I had it for about ~5 months now, drove ~5000Miles, and noticed that i need to add about a quart of engine oil each ~3000 miles. Gilmour


The kind of driving you do and the oil you use may affect that amount used. I don't think a quart in 3000 mi is enough to worry about. But what I'd do is add most of a quart of Rislone to clean the engine and rings when the oil is down and you're about to change oil in 200-300 miles at most. Then drain the oil and notice the goop that will come out compared to other times. Refill with a good brand of oil right to the full mark after the engine has run and cooled. Then check your oil usage over the miles.

I use about half a quart of Rislone in mine a couple times a year.

A quart for 3,000 miles isn't much. I have had cars that use a quart in 500 miles and I haven't thought much about it. They run for years that way and they don't smoke. My 97 Lesabre is probably using about a quart every 1,500 miles, but much of it is leaking out the valve cover gaskets. In addition, I recently discovered it is also ending up in the intake manifold, similar to what Maxwedge encountered. It still has great compression though with 205k on it.

We have tractors and trucks here also and they all use oil. My neighbor to the east who is 93 asked me awhile back if I change my oil or just add to it.

I have had only one vehicle that doesn't really use oil and it is a Nissan Pathfinder. It doesn't get driven that much, but I am still always amazed that it is right up to full and the capacity for it is only about 3.5 quarts.

Using 1 qt every 3K miles could be normal or it may not be. If I used that much in any of my GM cars with the SII 3800 engine I'd have to sell or trade them in. With under 100K miles mileage never used more than a 1/4 qt between 3K oil changes. Technically this engine is not a high oil consumption engine. :grinno:

Valve stem seals or LIM gaskets could be the cause. But I would run a compression test first.

Using 1 qt every 3K miles could be normal or it may not be. If I used that much in any of my GM cars with the SII 3800 engine I'd have to sell or trade them in. With under 100K miles mileage never used more than a 1/4 qt between 3K oil changes. Technically this engine is not a high oil consumption engine. :grinno:

This is what's making me worry, I had a 1993 Regal before with >180k miles on it, i had to add ZERO oil, the same with my wife's 1998 Jimmy 4.3L i change the Jimmy oil each ~7K miles (~10,000KM) and add zero amount of oil from one change to the other (in the jimmy)...

end of next week i will change the oil + filter + PCV valve with a different oil brand.

by the way, the brand i used for the Lesabre was Prestone 10w30 , i have a gut feeling telling me that this oil could be fake or a cheap Chinese oil with a fancy sticker...not sure how to check it..This time i will try the ACDELCO from the dealer ship (they want ~45$ for a 4L galon !).

Will keep you updated.

(they want ~45$ for a 4L galon !).thats 10 + per qt no way!!!!!!!!!!use a high quility oil but $2-3 p/qt

No need to waste money on expensive GM/Delco brand oil.

I use Castrol GTX 10W-30 but there are other good quality motor oils out there. Just be careful and not use synthetic type oils at this point in time. Otherwise you will probably get external leaking.

by the way, the brand i used for the Lesabre was Prestone 10w30 , i have a gut feeling telling me that this oil could be fake or a cheap Chinese oil with a fancy sticker....

I'd never seen Prestone brand oil offered in a store. I looked up on the net and found Prestone synthetic and its port was Singapore...?

I'd just go to an auto parts place and buy 5 quarts of a known quality brand--could even be Walmart and their house brand. Don't spend extra for the High mileage oils.

As for many motors not using oil, when cars are driven short drives the condensates collect in the oil and increase its volume. So cars driven short drives will appear to not use oil.

But then if those are driven on a longer trip where the oil is heated enough to evaporate and burn the things that had collected in it, the level drops and people check oil after a long drive or on a trip and find they're "used oil" for once. Actually it's only a function of the chemistry and physics.

I use an oil additive from old days, Rislone, and add it about half a quart a few hundred miles before oil change. I believe it cleans the system and helps free up the oil rings. My subjective experience is the car seems to use less after I've used the Rislone than when I have skipped using it for a couple of years.

Just be careful and not use synthetic type oils at this point in time. Otherwise you will probably get external leaking.

the one i used WAS synthetic oil, didn't know that synthetic is bad, any reason why not to use synthetic?, or semi synthetic?

Thanks all for your help.

First its hard to compare the Series I 3800 engines to the series II in terms of oil consumption..

The Series II is a different design other than the same bore and stroke.. The engine also have different piston ring placement and design..

The series II has lower tension and skinnier rings than the Series I ever had... As well the Series II-III's had the rings further up the piston for better emissions..

For the Series II's its normal to burn oil between changes... 1 Quart per 3000 Miles is a lot for any 3800... But I have seen some that use nothing for oil and other that burn 1/2 - 1 Quart in 3000 miles.. I put 161,000 Severely abusive miles on my Series II and it always used oil between changes... At its worst( Yes I beat the tar out of the motor ) it was using 1 quart in 3000 miles..... The current motor uses about 1/2 Quart in 3000 Miles..

The series I 3800 Tuned Port in my Van does not burn a drop... No idea why its like that:eek7::cool:

the one i used WAS synthetic oil, didn't know that synthetic is bad, any reason why not to use synthetic?, or semi synthetic?

To start I am dumbfounded. :confused:

I've never heard of Prestone motor oil but obviously it exists and in full synthetic form. At what mileage did you start using it versus regular dino oil?

There are reports of using full synthetic motor oil causing issues with the valve stem seals on SII 3800 engines. I think we had a few members here or at one of the other GM forums over the years.

The biggest issue with full synthetic oil may be external leaking until the seals and gaskets get conditioned. I think most will agree that you are more likely to get external leaks on this engine versus internal. Valve cover gaskets, front and rear crank seals or oil pan. Drip, drip, drip. :lol:

The biggest issue with full synthetic oil may be external leaking until the seals and gaskets get conditioned. I think most will agree that you are more likely to get external leaks on this engine versus internal. Valve cover gaskets, front and rear crank seals or oil pan. Drip, drip, drip. :lol:

I'd never read anyone saying that the gaskets will condition or adjust to the synthetic oil and quit leaking. Odd that would change the gaskets...

I'd never read anyone saying that the gaskets will condition or adjust to the synthetic oil and quit leaking. Odd that would change the gaskets...

I'm surprised. :confused:

You've never heard of comments like this about full synthetic and synthetic blends? I don't think I'm the first to mention it or the last. If your gaskets and/or seals are bad in the first place obviously that is not going to happen. Reason being is most of these synthetic oils contain additives to work with the seals and gaskets. Plenty of anecdotal data on the Net with similar comments. For example Amsoil has been talking about it for years to assure you it is OK to use synthetic motor oil. See below.



Source: Amsoil

Converting really high mileage engines:

Very high mileage vehicles may still be good candidates for conversion to Amsoil synthetic if they have been well maintained and are in good condition.
If you have no visible oil leaks or oil burning/consumption try this: drain the old oil and change the filter. Install new petroleum oil and a new oil filter and drive the vehicle till it is thoroughly warmed up. Now add the Amsoil engine flush and use according to directions on the can.

Flushing the engine with new oil and filter will give you the best possible flush. The new oil and filter can hold more contaminants and give you a cleaner engine. Drain the oil/engine flush, change the filter again and install the Amsoil motor oil of your choice.

As the newly installed Amsoil synthetic motor oil continues the process of cleaning the engine, deposit's; some of them microscopic will be removed leaving microscopic voids. Over a period of time the additives in Amsoil will fill in and reseal these voids. This process can take a few hundred to several thousand miles depending on the mileage and condition of your engine.

During this phase some engines will have slightly elevated oil consumption till the engine is cleaned up and the voids filled. This is normal and only last for the time needed for the oil to condition and clean the engine.

Most people don't even notice this phase and usually oil consumption ends up being much less because Amsoil synthetic motor oils are so much less volatile than petroleum oil (does not evaporate at high temperatures)

The "synthetic oil's cause leaks myth":

Synthetic oil does flow more readily than petroleum oil does so if you have a leak it will tend to leak from it more freely. This however is caused by an all ready failing seal. Not by the synthetic oil itself.

Petroleum motor oils are notorious for forming what's know as a "false seal" Varnish and crud will build up around a failing seal and help keep a more viscous petroleum oil from leaking. Synthetic oils that are highly detergent will clean off the build up and expose the all ready failing seal. There's your leak!

For this reason we suggest that our oil's only be used in mechanically sound engines. If you have a leaking seal replace it prior to installing Amsoil motor oil.

We have also seen many cases where older engines are starting to seep oil because some motor oils have poor long term seal compatibility. Exposure to these low grade oils causes the seals to harden and seal poorly.

All motor oil, synthetic and petroleum alike contain chemicals as part of the additives that are added to the oil that are there to keep engine seals pliable and to cause mild swelling so the seal works properly.

The additive's in Amsoil motor oils are so good at conditioning engine seals that there have been many cases where engines with slight oil seeps sealed back up after a few thousand miles of driving. That being said if the seal is shot all you can do is get it fixed, no oil will fix it ours included.

I think im one of the few who experience VERY HIGH oil consumption. I burn thru 1qt every 1400 miles. it was 1200 at first until i changed out one side of my valve seals. Gonna do the other side soon. But only expect it to curb the oil cosumption by another 200 miles. I have no external leaks , even changed out the oil pan gasket. I suspect maybe the rear valve cover gasket is leakin a little bit becuase I can smell oil under hard acceleration. But there is no signs off oil leaking around it. Can't figure it out. Tried using high mileage oil but as mention early and in other post it doesn't really do anything, didn't for me either. When I change the other side valve seals I'll see how much improvement it does. Don't expect much though. My emissions are low and I don't have blue smoke so I think I just have to live with it.

I've been running Mobile 1 Extended Life 5W-30 in my LeSabre's since I got a driver's liscence. On rare occasions when I've had a change done professionally or when I was too broke to buy synthetic I would run the conventional oil. I really don't notice any major difference except that my consumption seems to be better with the synthetic Mobile 1 and the engine runs slightly smoother. I've had external leaks on all three LeSabres (1992 2000 2004) regardless of what kind of oil I've used.

I've started another thread regarding a really frustrating oil leak on my 04 that other people have mentioned on here before. I'm going to track it down and solve the problem though and continue using synthetic oil. When I dropped my pan to replace the pan gasket recently my internals looked brand new (90k miles). My feeling is that the Amsoil explaination is correct. Detergents in the synthetic oil are simply exposing and exploiting gaskets that were already weak and seeping. I'd rather fix leaky gaskets than to mask the problem by using lower quality conventional oil.

My consumption is approximately 1.5 quarts per oil change interval. I change my oil when the oil life reads 15% regardless of mileage. Given the extended life of my Mobile 1 Synthetic and the 7500 mile filter, I never worry about mileage and simply rely on the computer calculations. My feeling is that most of my consumption is related to a frustrating external leak which basically reveals itself in the form of a few droplets and some residue on the pan. Over the course of a change interval, that could easily amount to a quart or so in loss.

changing the oil pan gasket more than likely won't do much. I changed mine a while ago and it didn't affect oil consumption at all. It was the kind of leak that just got the oil pan a little wet but never dropped on the ground. What I have recently realized is that oil is migrating from my lower intake manifold and is also slightly leaking. I also recently changed the other valve cover gasket. no help. I'm using a quart of oil ever 1200-1400 miles. So your a lot more fortunate than me.

One question I have? Does the fact that the lower manifold is leak some oil mean that its failing. Had the car since it had 108k on. Been leaking for a long time but I recently started to may attention to it. From the stamp on the upper manifold it was replaced in 2003.

C Man good to see you again..

You may be experiencing some issues like I had... The 95-96 Series II's seem to have these issues with high mileage..

Mine started using oil as well, and consumption kept increasing... No matter what oil I used I could burn through a good bit of oil.. I used to do 1/2 a quart in 3000 miles... Towards the end it was close to 2 quarts in 3000 miles..

I pulled the motor at 161,000 miles... Popped the heads off to find that I had really bad piston slap.. Had a tick for years I could never get rid of... It was cylinder 4 that had the issue... The issues was excessive piston to bore clearnace that caused a thud thud thud from the motor, almost sounding like a bad wrist pin... There were 3 other cylinders like this, but #4 was the worst.. The rings got beat up and cause the oil consumption..

But I can't complain as this motor always was abused by me... 6000 Rpm shifts all of the time is enough to finish any motor.. But to go 161,000 miles, I do have to call that buick motor tuff..

Before I traded the 2000 LeSabre I had planned to perform a Series II / Series III intake swap. Part of my plan was to replace the lower intake and gaskets due to the oil consumption issue. I may have to take my box of parts out again and do the same swap on my 2004. At least my 04 doesn't consume coolant.

I feel like the oil loss could be coming from the end cap seals on either side of the lower intake manifold.

I finally stopped my oil consumption. I replaced the other side of my valve stem seals and so far no oil consumption in the last 300miles. The oil would go down one notch every 300miles. Very happy now. Should have did it a long time ago but i didn't have the right tools and I finally figured the magic to getting the keepers on which made the job a thousand time easier and faster.

Just posting as a future refrence to someone experience high oil consumption.

That's actually really interesting C Man, I've never done valve stem seals myself. Would you mind posting some more details on the job? What sorts of tools did you find useful? I don't think my engine is consuming oil internally but down the road that's a job I could see myself doing. I'd certainly appreciate hearing more about it.

Well its fairly simple if you have the right tools. You need an air compressor and adapter for the spark plug hole, needle nose pliers, valve spring compressor, and (forgot the name of the tool) one of those magnetic pick ups.

The problem I had the first time I did the job was that the needle nose pliers that I had were to big, I didn't have extra keepers, and I didn't know the trick into getting the keepers back on easy. You have to use the magnet thing.

Also a note: The first side I changed didn't remidy the oil consumption at all. Only by like 200mi and I'm assuming here. When I changed the rear I have yet to have anymore oil consumption. Why this way? I have no idea. When I checked the spark plugs the first time I did the job they all had signs of oil leakage. When I did the rear 2 out of three of the spark plugs had signs of oil leakage.

But u could very well have valve stem failure. I got the car with 108k miles on it. It was at least 2.5qts low on oil when I bought it. So this tell me that it had an oil consumption early on and until recently has always burned the same amount of oil 1qt every 12-1400miles. I had changed the pcv valve out and the oil pan gasket. I say its worth a look into.

Well its fairly simple if you have the right tools. You need an air compressor and adapter for the spark plug hole, needle nose pliers, valve spring compressor, and (forgot the name of the tool) one of those magnetic pick ups.

The problem I had the first time I did the job was that the needle nose pliers that I had were to big, I didn't have extra keepers, and I didn't know the trick into getting the keepers back on easy. You have to use the magnet thing.

Also a note: The first side I changed didn't remidy the oil consumption at all. Only by like 200mi and I'm assuming here. When I changed the rear I have yet to have anymore oil consumption. Why this way? I have no idea. When I checked the spark plugs the first time I did the job they all had signs of oil leakage. When I did the rear 2 out of three of the spark plugs had signs of oil leakage.

But u could very well have valve stem failure. I got the car with 108k miles on it. It was at least 2.5qts low on oil when I bought it. So this tell me that it had an oil consumption early on and until recently has always burned the same amount of oil 1qt every 12-1400miles. I had changed the pcv valve out and the oil pan gasket. I say its worth a look into.IIRC, C man, we discussed this nearly a year ago Click Here; (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=918607) glad to see you finally got the back side changed. Another trick when installing the keepers, is to use grease on the keeper. The grease will hold them in place until you release the spring pressure. Good job, now that you know some of the tricks of the trade, I hope you found out that it's not as difficult as you what you encountered during your first experience. :uhoh: BTW, the reason you did not see a major improvement when replacing the front seals; it is like trying to walk on one crutch, when both legs are broken! You fixed one side; however, the other side was still impaired and probably increased consumption!