Hi I have a 1990 buick Lesabre , it will start and either stall right away or stall as soon as I start driving down the road, some times it will start right back up, sometimes in an hour, sometimes 2 days later. My mechanic swore it was the Igniton Control Module, so I replaced that, nothing changed. Then he said he was sure that it was the fuel pump, so I replaced that , nothing changed. So I mentioned to him the coil pack and he says that it would be impossible for all 3 to be bad at the same time. I have decided to find a new mechanic bcause I have already spent $250 on parts and another $150 on labor. Does anyone have any Ideas.

it could be a crank position sensor i have a 92 buick3800 it started as a stumble then one day i drove it some were and i came out it would not start got ride home then came back for car to tow home it started right up if it has tach will the tach bounce or it stays still if it dont work that one inducation of crank sensor gone bad the book said a stumble or stalling after reaching operating tempwhat are some of the codes your getting

Im not sure about the codes, mechanic didnt tell me, but the car will dive a couple of miles before if stalls, then when it gets warm (after about 5 minutes) it will stall out and usually not start again for a good hour. I actually have a crank postion sensor sitting on my kitchen table, how hard is it to put on?

you can get the code by putting a jumper wire in the data port located under your steering col put the wire in the A TO B THE CONFIGUERATION OF THE TERMINAL IS LIKE THIS FEDCBA then turn key on eng light will flash cod it will say code 12
GHJKLM then go into new codes the crank sensor is not hard just time remove pass tire remove splash sheild remove harmonic balancer you can rent puller from most auto parts then sensor is behind that it will take alittle time to line it up but it can be done w/out tool the code may not be stored mine realy did not give direct code i diagnotced by reading in manuel haynes pick on up there some time helpful

May be tough to do if you have never done one-- You need to pull the harmonic balancer off- which can at times be a PITA-
need a gear puller on most- plus a good way to break crank bolt loose- I usually just put a breaker bar on it and hit starter-

You can verify crank sensor as the bad boy-- next time it won't start- see if you have voltage at the injectors- plug in a "197" side marker light into any injector connector- then crank engine- does light pulse? - if not- then a CPS is highly suspect

oh i see these computers messed with miy configuation but it a rectagular port you have a sloted hole on left and a hole on right like i say it goes FEDCBA
GHJKLM LFT to rt

OK You guys are confusing me , think I forgot to mention that I am a single mom, and although I do have some car knowledge, (like I have replaced a starter on my buick by myself and also a water pump) I have no idea what all this code stuff means. Is the crank position sensor hard to change because I have one that I got at the pick and pull, but it seems like it would be harder to put on than it was to take off.

the code is a data stored in the diagnostc part of you onbourd computer it a code present it is indicated by a check engine light and you can get those codes by the process like i told you my book tell me code 19 is crank sensor but it sound to me like you may need a little help with this problem I AM SORRY i thought i was giving instuction to a yong man but kodo to you my sister work on her own car

If I take the car to autozone can they test a check engine light or does the car have to be a certain year

Your 1990 may not be readable unless they have adapters. That doesn't mean its not worth the time to go and ask, just that they may not have the correct reader. Besides if you have a CkPS they may be able to compare that one to the part shown in the book and confirm it will (or won't) work on your vehicle. They may also be able to test the part itself. They may also be able to reccomend another mechanic to at least help you diagnose the real problem for small change. Then you can make a decision about you replacing a part or having someonelse do it for you. Sometimes its not that you can't do it, rather it needs to up on a hoist which many of us don't have...or a warm garage. But the main thing right now is to track the problem down so you don't spend alot of unnecssary time and $$$$$.
Since the car is starting, and to some extent runs, is good and bad. Means something works some of the time and makes it harder to pin point. You said you replaced the fuel pump but is the fuel getting from the pump through the injectors; Have the mech look at the fuel pressure regulator vaccum line for one suggestion, and check for a vaccum leak on other lines as well. Good luck.

in the process of working on the car the mechanic (if you can call him that) broke the cable for the hood latch. now I cant open my hood. How can I open the hood and fix the cable so I can continue fixing the real problem of the car

This will be very tricky... But if you can grab the cable from under the Drivers side front of the car, Not far from the air filter housing and close to the drivers side of the radiator you may be able to pull on the cable and pop the hood..

ok auto zone might be able to scan the car but on my car that code was not stored in computer it will reset it self but it worth a try good luck and like a say kudos to you for working on your own car as far as hooh latch you might beable to crawl under the frount and pop it with a screwdriver

Thanks, Im going to give those ideas a try, of course its like 11 degrees outside. I can't even get to the real problem with my car until I get the hood open. I told the mechanic that was working on my car that I didnt need his help anymore, I seem to be able to do a better job on my own and I'm not even a mechanic . You all have been way more helpful than he was Thanks

OK I went outside and got my hood open on the very first pull of the cable, I think I missed my calling I should have been a mechanic!

Congratulations, you may just have acquired a new addiction; fixing your own car. Sometimes fun...sometimes not so much. I would still suggest getting someone locally to help you along, especially with the problem you have now, what with you being in a cold weather area and all its tough to get under the car to work on it, much less get out and do the testing. I would not recommend jumping in and replacing the CkPS. Its not an real easy job, especially if it does not solve the problem.

Starting with some of the basic repair manuals would help. Going to the local library and looking up your vehicle on AllData can be helpful and you may be able to checkout the Chiltons or Haynes books.
A trip to the autoparts store or 2 to ask about the problems you are having may also give you some leads and instruction on how to do some of the testing. Having someone tell you in an e-mail vs someone actually pointing to a part on YOUR car...well its worlds apart. Also, as I metioned before, ask them to recommend a good mechanic. Try to go at a time when they are not super busy, and don't shy away from bribing them with a bagel or 2. If you really want to fix it yourself, and as you say you don't have a ton of experience it may take a little while to get the hang of it. Folks on this forum will be happy to help you. Just be patient and try to clearly describe whats happening with the car.

Good luck.

A recent post in LeSabre had this link. It may help you get an idea of what is involved in replacing the CkPS. http://mykidz.net/GTP/CrankPosSensor.shtml (http://mykidz.net/GTP/CrankPosSensor.shtml)
Also, check out a local VoTech school for some help.

ok, I took my car to a new mechanic, he said that I needed a new ECC (computer) and that he would replace if for $300.00 plus $85 for labor. By the way my car stalled 5 times on the way there (less than 5 miles from my house) I told him that I had to think about it and proceeded to go to autozone where I purchased one for $78.99 plus a $95 core charge. I also bought a buick lesabre book (very cool thing Who knew) so it took me a while because didnt realize that you need to save your prom pack to put in the new computer (they should tell you these things at the part store) so got it back and put it in, anyway car started right up and of course as soon as I get out on the road the car stalls again. So I am right back where I started. I have to wait to payday to find a new mechanic

WHO in this thread suggested replacing the PCM?I actually have a crank postion sensor sitting on my kitchen table, how hard is it to put on? It should not take an average mechanic more than 1-hr to install the CKPS. (75-90 bucks)

now that you have a book it will come easy do you have a engine light that stays on if so then you have a code the book tells you how to get those code or take it to auto zone but the book will have a list of all the codes if you dont have a engien light on then the computer will store previous code and you can see those tell us what they are and we may help you

Cant take the car to autozone for a check engine light car to old, it has to be a 96 or newer. I found a place in the yellow pages that does nothing but diagonistcs no matter what year the car is. I wasted my money on the computer, so wont be going back to that place , which by the way was a big chain place ( i wont say the name). Hopefully i can drive the car there w/o it braking down. I do have AAA so I can get a free tow if needed. If this guy finds out whats wrong Im going to drive it back home and try to replace the part my self ( as long as its not to dfficult)

OK, but before you replace the part check back here and see if the more experienced folks can add some additional advice. And take some time at the new shop to have them explain what they did and give you some documentation. If the folks on this thread ask you for the results you can supply an answer.

Ask questions, take in your new automanual and have them show you the sections that address your car's problem. Thats how to learn this stuff. People generally want to help.

One other thing I would suggest is asking around to see if anyone that you know has also used this diagostics shop. How reliable are they? Sorry you had the bad experience at the parts store. They are not all like that, but its a gamble. The diagnostics shop could be good... or not. Make sure you tell them what the car has been doing, what you have checked and what you have replaced. Good luck.

Edit: OK, sorry didn't see CPU replacement effort... I still suggest you check the harmonic balancer

------------------------------------------------
Howdy,

I have the same year and make, and had the same sporadic dying. Does it die after warmed up? They get bad codes because it is the CPU, Computer. These are known for shorting.
Before you get any deeper check: the harmonic balancer and the CPU.
The harmonic balancer (sensor) runs on the belt and if not straight or there's too much vibration it can damage the CPU giving an unstable connection. (sudden death)
1990 Buicks are great cars (I think they like the cold..) They were built with a strong 3800 motor and will last forever! Hope this helps, I remember the hell I went through. Please post your efforts and progress.

90sbeater Jim

ok havent gotten back in a while, but like I said I replaced the computer, because I was told that I needed one. check engine light still on and car still stalling. i have sinced learned how to pull the codes myself (pretty good for a girl) so the codes I get are 12 and 41. 12 according to the book is diagnostic mode so thats irrelevant and 41 can be 3 different things the first one has something to do with a carburerator which my car doesnt have so I elminated that one, the second is a cam shaft sensor which I cant seem to find , and the 3rd is the prom pack. Now I replaced the computer, but had to keep my old prom. If there is something wrong with it would that cause the computer to not pull up any codes except that the prom is bad? If I replace the prom will that help pull the right code or even stop the stalling? I hope I have explained this ok

Good work! Alot of folks have problems checking codes on the older vehicles. If you have gotten that down you are ahead of the game. I am not real familar with your year (I have a 1995) but according to Autozone:

Camshaft Position Sensor
On your 1990 Buick Lesabre 3.8L FI OHV , the Camshaft Position Sensor is located:http://www.autozone.com/images/template_images/clearpixel.gifUnder hood, passenger side, upper engine area, between cylinder heads, mounted behind the power steering pump reservoir.

This should be a part that you can replace yourself, but there may be some tricks to it that someone else on the forum can help with on this particular model. Anyway, its great you are tracking down the problem.
BTW did you ever go to the diagnostic shop you mentioned?
Good luck.

There are three things that can cause a code 41. The camshaft sensor, the camshaft magnet and the crankshaft position sensor. Do a search in the Buick forums for code 41 and you will find some more info.

I looked up changing the camshaft sensor which by the way I was told was not in my car ( by a man at the diagnostic shop where they said I needed a new prom for my computer) anyway the camshaft sensor seems like its fairly simple to change. I think I look up more info on code 41 first . Where would I do that my book has very small details about codes?
Thanks to all who have hepled so far.

Look in the diognastic part of the manuel it should tell you what all the parts control and tell you symtoms of failure i think that is just pasted the codes part thats in a hayne book im glad you figure out how to work on your own car i bet you wonder why then mechanice charge somuch for something so easy your car is old and it not that technical you can still work on it kudos to you

The last "code 41" I looked at, the magnet was gone- had come out of its holder in the cam sprocket- this is a major job to go in and replace the magnet- so be sure and look when you have the cam sensor out if the magnet is in place- - Note- you have to turn the engine by hand until you can see where it is (or should be) in the hole where the sensor mounts...- you may have to use a mirror..

Sorry I havent gotten back to anyone sooner, havent really done anymore work on the Buick because I was broke, anyway I am wondering why am I being told by someone that my car doesn't have a camshaft sensor. If my car has a camshaft wouldnt it also have a sensor. Anyway Im going to try to replace it myself, it is a very cheap part $17, wouldnt it be great if this is the fix I need. It would also be ironic that I have spent almost $700 to have my car fixed by my back yard mechanic and that just a regular girl fixed it herself ----with the help of you guys of course, Ill let you know what happens

If the magnet is missing- it is not an easy fix- the entire front of engine needs undressed , because the timing cover has to come off- to access the cam sprocket....so hopefully it is only your sensor and not the missing magnet scenario....

IIRC, you said that your engine was stalling, the camshaft sensor will not cause the engine to stall! Have you ever changed a crank sensor?

I'm not a mechanic but I had this same problem a few years ago on my 92 Lesabre. I pulled a code 41 as well.

The car would turn off....not really stahl....while driving. Yes, very inconvenient while driving down the highway and the power steering gives out. The difference for me was the car would always restart.

I replaced both the Cam Position Sensor and the Crank Position Sensor. My understanding is that the failed sensor reported to the ECC that the engine was turned off and this cuts the fire to the spark plugs. No spark, no go.

I would replace the sensor you have as it is fairly simple. The CkPS is a bit more involved but not too awful. The biggest challenge is breaking the harmonic balancer bolt. It takes some muscle. I used the cars weight and a screw driver jammed into a tooth on the transmission fly wheel.

Either way good luck.

Yes I agree, I just recently had to take the timing cover off my regal to fix the oil pump. Had to take a long breaker bar, and didn't have a helper to hold screwdriver to the teeth on the flywheel so instead clamped visegrips to the flywheel, if you get them tight enough when you turn the breaker bar to get the bolt out the visegrips get wedged against the bell housing and will keep the flywheel from turning.

The hardest part for me was after that, trying to get the pulley off. Because of its location I couldn't get a puller on it with three claws because it was too close to the fender well. I had to use a puller that had claws opposite each other, just using two. But the one I had the claws was too short, and had to take some off the first puller I tried, the claws were big enough and that wound up working. The hardest part though using a puller with only two claws was trying to keep it from moving down while tightening the bolt on the puller, very hard trying to take one hand to try to keep the thing positioned just right while also trying to tighten the thing with the other, it kept wanting to get off center.

I saw a thread though where someone used the other kind of puller for a buick like ours, where it has those slots, but not bolt holes, the person said there are bolt holes in there deeper, and that he had to find some 6mm bolts to use with his puller, I don't know I haven't tried.

Yes I agree, I just recently had to take the timing cover off my regal to fix the oil pump. Had to take a long breaker bar, and didn't have a helper to hold screwdriver to the teeth on the flywheel so instead clamped visegrips to the flywheel, if you get them tight enough when you turn the breaker bar to get the bolt out the visegrips get wedged against the bell housing and will keep the flywheel from turning.

The hardest part for me was after that, trying to get the pulley off. Because of its location I couldn't get a puller on it with three claws because it was too close to the fender well. I had to use a puller that had claws opposite each other, just using two. But the one I had the claws was too short, and had to take some off the first puller I tried, the claws were big enough and that wound up working. The hardest part though using a puller with only two claws was trying to keep it from moving down while tightening the bolt on the puller, very hard trying to take one hand to try to keep the thing positioned just right while also trying to tighten the thing with the other, it kept wanting to get off center.

I saw a thread though where someone used the other kind of puller for a buick like ours, where it has those slots, but not bolt holes, the person said there are bolt holes in there deeper, and that he had to find some 6mm bolts to use with his puller, I don't know I haven't tried.

Yes..He is right. There are bolt holes. I forgot the puller I rented from the parts store did not come with the right bolts. You can go to Lowes or HD and pick up three bolts...in fact I still have the three I bought. Just match up the threads with the ones that come with the kit from the parts store.

So haven't you guys learned the breaker bar and starter trick? I tried to break that crankshaft bolt loose the way you guys did-- but I soon said, there has to be an easier way-- so I tried just resting the breaker bar against the frame and just barely hit the starter-- woulds like a charm- Since I learned this trick, I have never tried it any other way- Works on every car I have had to pull the balancer on. I'd recommend it to anyone who hasn't got a big impact wrench.......don't have to take off the flywheel cover either!

Also, the best way to ruin your harmonic balancer is to use a 2 or 3 jawed puller-- there are bolt slots and threaded holes in that balancer for a reason......

I would only use the jawed puller if I planned on replacing the harmonic balancer... it has internal rubber elements you know.. and an external puller will tear the rubber away....

So haven't you guys learned the breaker bar and starter trick? I tried to break that crankshaft bolt loose the way you guys did-- but I soon said, there has to be an easier way-- so I tried just resting the breaker bar against the frame and just barely hit the starter-- woulds like a charm- Since I learned this trick, I have never tried it any other way- Works on every car I have had to pull the balancer on. I'd recommend it to anyone who hasn't got a big impact wrench.......don't have to take off the flywheel cover either!

Also, the best way to ruin your harmonic balancer is to use a 2 or 3 jawed puller-- there are bolt slots and threaded holes in that balancer for a reason......

I would only use the jawed puller if I planned on replacing the harmonic balancer... it has internal rubber elements you know.. and an external puller will tear the rubber away....



I would do something like that myself. But however I would be afraid if I told someone else that maybe be doing it and they may use a 12pt socket or not have it on exactly all the way or it slides loose before they get in the car to start it it will wind up cracking their socket. But yeah, still good advice if the person feels comfortable trying that.

By the way, I used the jaws all the way on the back of the balancer, which is the pulley part, where the belt goes around, completely metal, and nothing got ruined.

You got lucky- the rubber is in between the OD and ID- you pulled on the OD- had to stress the rubber...that is what a harmonic balancer does- removes torsional vibration due to the rubber element- between the crankshaft and pulley.....

You got lucky- the rubber is in between the OD and ID- you pulled on the OD- had to stress the rubber...that is what a harmonic balancer does- removes torsional vibration due to the rubber element- between the crankshaft and pulley.....


Yes, you are correct, makes sense. But not everyone is made of money, and can just go out and buy or pay for a loaner tool, just to then find out that the bolts that come with it won't work. Also advance didn't even have the right kind of puller because it was already loaned out. And the only reason I even attempted to use the jaw puller is because the Haynes manual said that the balancer should come off by hand(which is bs I know). So I didn't think it would take a whole lot of pressure to get it off.

OK you guys totally lost me, I have no idea what you are talking about, I am going to chage the crank positon sensor today or tomorrow hope this helps. I am not made of money so I have to do things in stages of how I can afford them. I have a step by step guide to changing this and I am going to do it myself because I was quoated an outrageous price at the shop. I think that some mechanics think that because you are a woman you dont know anything about cars and that they can tell you anything and you will just say ok fix it. Id rather do it myself . With this forums help of course

The older 3800 engines harmonic balancers do come off without a puller- They are a slip fit-- But somewhere in late 80's, early 90's thay went to the press fit- My '86 park ave was a slip fit-- my MIL's 91 Riviera was a press fit as I recall.....I remember because I had my puller all bolted up and the balancer slipped right out on my '86...

as far as bolts go- I'd never expect the puller kit to have the right bolts in it-- you have to be creative once in awhile.......

The older 3800 engines harmonic balancers do come off without a puller- They are a slip fit-- But somewhere in late 80's, early 90's thay went to the press fit- My '86 park ave was a slip fit-- my MIL's 91 Riviera was a press fit as I recall.....I remember because I had my puller all bolted up and the balancer slipped right out on my '86...

as far as bolts go- I'd never expect the puller kit to have the right bolts in it-- you have to be creative once in awhile.......


I just looked at my manual, you are correct my book covers 85 thru 05 so that would explain that. They never tell you which one they are working on though when explaining how to do a job. And at the time I had no choice b/c I didn't have the money to even get the puller with the slots where you put the bolts through and didn't even have the gas to make if I had the money. Hard to be creative with nothing to work with. Either way if I got lucky I got lucky and that was bad advice on my part and thanks for correcting me that's what makes these forums great if someone says something wrong someone with more experience can correct them on it. Just like the other day someone was telling someone on a thread I saw that it was cool to remove sparkplugs on an engine with aluminum heads when hot, don't think so.

ok replaced the camshaft position sensor (all by myself By the way) It was not involved at all. I just had to take the inner fender splash shield off and the sensor was visible . It took me 15 minutes. (These two guys that live across the street that are always working on their car seem to think its hiliarious that a woman works on her car so their always making dumb comments to me like ) So I drove that car for about a half an hour and was very excited and then it stalled and started and stalled and started and stalled and that was it. Of course after I let it sit a while it will eventually start again. I guess its not fixed. Should I replace the crank positon sensor? and Is that the part that I need that special puller for?
So far have changed the computer, the cmp, the ecm, and the fuelpump I think Im running out of parts to throw at it.

Basics, do you have spark and injector pulse when it will not start, if not then suspect the cps, the wires to the icm from cps, or the icm which can be tested at Napa and other syores, not always conclusive though.

First, thank you all who have posted in this very helpful thread. This is my first posting in AF. I am in the same situation with my 1990 Buick LeSabre Custom -3800 engine. Mechanics are telling me about replacing the Crankshaft Position Sensor or the Ignition Module.

Installation of the CkPS seems really tough especially considering a Service Manual mentions a "special tool". The illustrations in the book even show a "special" Crankshaft Sensor Tool in the pic. So this is something I need, right? I kinda wanna just type the installation instructions here verbatim because I do not believe this is an easy operation. (I and maybe the woman who started this thread may need reassurance or brutal honesty).

My Chiltons Service Manual says to: Loosely install the CkPS on the pedestal, Position the sensor with the pedestal attached on the "proper tool". Position the "special tool" on the crankshaft. Then it goes into specifics about torque-ing 2 bolts then removing the "tool" and then placing "special tool" on the harmonic balancer and turning to see if any vane touches the tool and if so, replacing the balancer assembly.
Then it continues with the rest.
I became confused when it discussed the "Special Tool".

I am trying not to be too lengthy in type here but I wanted to determine a parts and tools "checklist" for replacing the Crankshaft Position Sensor.
(besides all the obvious tools needed to disconnect the battery, serpentine drive belt, front right tire, wheel assembly and inner fender access panel)
I believe I need a Torque Wrench, a Breakover bar to get the balancer bolt off,
And a "Crankshaft Sensor Tool" ???

After I'm through replacing this and torque-ing that, am I gonna need some kinda code or something for the computer?
Is replacing a Crankshaft Position Sensor really something that a NON-MECHANIC can feasibly do CORRECTLY?
The labor is expensive for a reason, correct?

I have read several different manuals on how to change the CKPS , if does seem quite involved but not impossible, You can borrow the puller from autozone for a small price, Im going to attempt to do it myself I will let you know , and If a girl can do it, you can do it.

I believe that 1990 was a slip fit for the balancer.. I don't even think there will be any holes for the puller.. I could be wrong, its been a while.. Chances are you should be able to tap the Balancer off the nose of the crank.. The hard part will be removing the crank bolt and resetting the new crank sensor..

The crankshaft sensor alignment tool--Part Number #J37089B is cost prohibitive for the DIY one-timer. Click Here (http://www.toolsource.com/crankshaft-sensor-adjustment-balancer-checker-p-95542.html?osCsid=mse3e0vr5835t6u04as3as76o6) for more info. It should take an experienced mechanic no more than 1-hr to replace the CKPS, which would equal about 75-100 bucks labor. Better to let someone who has the correct tools and knowledge. If they screw it up, you can hold them liable, but if you do it, no such luck!

The crankshaft sensor alignment tool--Part Number #J37089B is cost prohibitive for the DIY one-timer. Click Here (http://www.toolsource.com/crankshaft-sensor-adjustment-balancer-checker-p-95542.html?osCsid=mse3e0vr5835t6u04as3as76o6) for more info. It should take an experienced mechanic no more than 1-hr to replace the CKPS, which would equal about 75-100 bucks labor. Better to let someone who has the correct tools and knowledge. If they screw it up, you can hold them liable, but if you do it, no such luck!


Excellent advice, I didn't have access to the tool when I installed the oil pump gears on my 93 regal with a 3.8 liter. I instead put the sensor on snug, not completely tight, then put the pulley on about halfway or to the point where I could turn it and tell it that nothing was going to rub and it was clear, then tightened it down and had no problem since but could have just been lucky.

Where do you get that special tool, I see you have the part number, the Haynes manual says to check with your local auto parts store, I checked at least three different places and none of them had it and couldn't order it, atleast that is what they told me. I think I checked 3, I know I checked at advance and autozone though.

Never mind I just saw the Click here link, lol. Do you know any parts stores you can just go to and buy it though also?

Never mind I just saw the Click here link, lol. Do you know any parts stores you can just go to and buy it though also?None that I know of, it is not a required tool for 93-up 3.8, so therefore, not available as a loner either. Some people just use a rubber band around the reluctor ring to check clearance. :iceslolan Click Here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=618623) for an alternate "rubber band" method. Be sure to check the interrupter rings for any bent tabs or other damage. Good Luck! :wink:

None that I know of, it is not a required tool for 93-up 3.8, so therefore, not available as a loner either. Some people just use a rubber band around the reluctor ring to check clearance. :iceslolan Click Here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=618623) for an alternate "rubber band" method. Be sure to check the interrupter rings for any bent tabs or other damage. Good Luck! :wink:

Yeah I noticed the sensor in the picture they was showing in my Haynes manual looked different and figured the pic was off of a different year, but they never say specifically so I wasn't sure if it was required on mine or not. Are Chilton manuals any better as far as that goes because the Haynes manual basically says it covers a wide year range but really doesn't give year specific advice on this stuff for which year model or engine you are working on, I have noticed the Chilton manuals are thicker?

Thanks for the reassurance... "Yeah! If she can do it, I can too.. right?"
:wink:
Also, the links really helped put things into perspective. Thanks.
I must attempt to repair my vehicle myself, I have no choice.
I cannot even get my car started. (so I guess I'd have to pay to tow it to a mechanic)...?
A mechanic suggested the problem being either the Ignition Module OR the Crankshaft Position Sensor.
I have so far replaced the fuel pump, spark plugs&wire, pcv valve&grommet, and the ignition coil pack... on my 1990 Buick LeSabre Custom.
It has fuel but no spark, I believe. It turns over and makes the sound like it will start but just never fires... It comes so, so close...
I replaced the ignition coil and it then started right up... I let it run and killed it and it started again. I let it run for minutes, went down the road and back and then entered the house, happy and hopeful.
Two hours later, the car wouldn't start again.
Still hasn't.

I'm figuring I'll replace the Ignition Module first unless I hear otherwise.
(just because it's easier)
Unless anyone can suggest any other reasons why my car may be failing...
It ran fine. Then it pulled that business about dying at stops and then it became harder to start each time... Then eventually I couldn't get it to start at all.
Its just dead out there... mocking me.

P.S. Um, I'm new to AF and everything so thanks again but there were "infolinks"?? in this reply when I posted and I DID NOT put them here... ?!? Hmm.. ? I dunno... Commercials, I guess... ??? Sorry. ~Daniel

Have you tested for injector pulses? The crank sensor feeds the ecm to pulse the injectors too-- if there are no injector pulses AND no spark- the the CKPS is bad, if there are injector pulses AND no spark- then the ignition module is bad, or coil(s).

I use a side marker light bulb (#197 from autozone) to test for injector pulses- bend the two wire legs out and insert them in one injector harness- and crank the engine-- if light pulses, your crank sensor is good...at least during this test...

on my 92 buick i just put it in losely then slid the harmonic balancer on looked at it with a light from the bottem lined it up pulled the balancer off the tightened it up been running since good luck it not a hard job just time

I rented a NOID pulse tester kit from autozone. I plugged the bulb tester into all six injector harnesses, checking each one seperately, and they each lit up... But the car won't start.
I tried spraying starter fluid in the intake and still the car wouldn't start.
*I'm getting confused with what I can do now to figure out what part needs replacing...
The young dude at autozone was saying opposite of the advice given here...
He was saying that if the light pulse test lit up then the CkPS may be bad, and that the ignition module is probably okay.
...But he also said the injectors might not be squirting gas...
I believe he was helpful, but he may just be guessing?

The car won't start. It won't turn over.
I used a screwdriver in the sparkplug cable to find a spark... I tried a couple of the wires and they made a little arch.
Should I test each sparkplug wire this way?
I just tested two and they made a spark... I just keep running my battery dead trying anything. I keep having to remove it and recharge it at work.

Thanks again for all over your advice and assistance.

I have attempted to change the crank position sensor by myself and I have everything removed even the balancer which was very easy to remove , however I am having a hard time getting everything back the way it was, Of course those mechanic guys that live accross the street are having a good laugh at the girl who thinks shes a mechanic. I will get it back together I hope.

I went through ALL of this about 5 years ago with a '92 Park Ave. Drove me nuts. Car would stall, then later would start. Finally, it would turn-over fine but would not start-up. There was NO SPARK at the plugs. Changed a dozen or more items and chased my tail until I read an article in Popular Mechanics.

It was the ignition code reader that reads the chip in the ignition key. I had the ignition replaced.

It's still runs great.

Last 3800 I worked on that acted funky like this- had spark, had noid lights, had fuel pressure--- was seriously out of time due to timing chain slipping over cam sprocket- jumped about 6 teeth (or what was left of the teeth) - also broke 7 of 12 lifters and bent pushrods- (interference engine you know)- Bought the lifters at Autozone for like $1.60 apiece--unreal cheap- GM wanted like $16 each....

Anyway- you may want to pull off your front valve cover (easiest) and check valve movement as engine rotates...the cam sprocket if never replaced is tefloncovered- and tends to wear out- anything of that vintage with 150k+ is due for a timing chain and cam sprocket replacement...

This is a great thread. Sounds like more than one person has gone through what I'm going through with my 1995 LeSabre. I've changed the IM/Coils, and checked the injectors with a bulb, no flashes. So I guess I'm down to the CPS. Which after reading this thread doesn't sound like the nightmare I expected it to be.

Sharing in the mystery. I have a 1990 Buick Riviera that has no rust, looks good. Not running great, though. Problem started 2 months ago when I rolled up and stopped at a stop sign. Engine quit and wouldn't restart. Service Engine Soon light was on. Towed. Started up the next day at the auto service place. "No new codes found. Sometimes it's the fuel pump and the jostling of getting towed frees it up. If it happens again, bang on the center of the fuel tank." Had the fuel filter changed for $80--just cause never had and figured that might be why it wasn't running too smooth. A few days later was going 35 mph, engine just stopped. Banging on fuel tank didn't help. Towed. "we found a code this time...camshaft position sensor...$238."

I got the impression they didn't test the sensor, just went by the code and put a new one in. Subsequently, the Serv Eng Soon light would blink off and on occasionally, but engine didn't stop for a few days. Then engine did stop. Waited 1/2 hour. Restarted. Got to were I was going. Engine light on, but no new code. Went to drive home. Didn't start. Went back next day; it started and I drove it to the shop as they said they'd show me how to check the spark for next time it stopped, plus I had picked up test light, and spark tester at Autozn to help with that. They let it idle in their lot and it stopped. No spark at cranking. They put in a used ignition module. It started. Put original ignition module back in. It started. Put used/loaner/tester ignition module back in and told me to try that. Went to pick it up...didn't start. I'm told the ignition module is $500, should that be the cause. Evidently it's not that. They are saying next thing is ECM. But maybe crankshaft position sensor would be a better try? ***main question***

Sorry to see that stylsmack hasn't got her car back together yet since attempting Crankshaft position senor replacement--wishing her luck.

Ignition key reader problem was mentioned...I went through that last year. The car didn't even crank, though. The shop bypassed the system with a resistor and problem was solved--or maybe not? Could current problem be related to ignition key reader?

Code 041 is showing as history now, though I did see it show up once as current since new cam position sensor was placed. Checking the codes is easy on this car...I turn ignition to "on" but not to crank, and push the "off" and "temp increase" buttons simultaneously on the climate control for 3 seconds...codes scroll along on the instrument panel.

Finally--I know, this is long--the instrument panel goes off occasionally while driving. Usually comes back on next time I start up. Climate control panel buttons usually take lots of pushes to get them to go, too. Are these two problems and engine quitting all related? Would ECM do all three?

Thanks for any advice. Was good to find that others are wading through the same problem. I hope everybody gets their cars going without too much more hassle.