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91 Hatch with DPFI needs new motor
02-02-2009, 08:01 PM
I just have a question about my options with regards to replacing my motor.
The other day I got a bad clacking noise from the bottom end of the motor and I'm afraid it's probably terminal. The harmonic balancer is vibrating all over so I'm assuming I probably blew a bearing in the bottom end somewhere.
I've gotta search for a new motor and I know that directly bolting in another DPFI would be the absolute easiest scenario, but I don't know exactly how long they made it for (I'm assuming only till 91 then switched all motors to the MPFI) and that really limits the number of good engines out there.
I'm not going to be doing a B16 swap, not even going to consider it...but what I was wondering was, what swaps are very easy to do. I don't necessarily want to get into doing a harness beyond the wiring in the engine bay. I have an old issue of Honda tuning that has some info in chart form, but I'm afraid that I have too much schoolwork to be going through years of magazines trying to find it.
So yeah, any suggestions on an EASY swap time wise...my technical abilities are quite good, I have access to all the necessary tools, and a shop to do it in and have done a few swaps before (same type of engine in and out) but I don't want to get too crazy.
02-02-2009, 10:14 PM
Easiest Swaps: D15B2 or a D16A6
D15B2 will be a direct swap, assuming thats what you have right now.
D16A6 will require a MPFI swap, which requires: PM6 ECU, MPFI Distributor, Injector Resistor Box, and MPFI Intake manifold. Also a MPFI Engine harness for spare parts.
The MPFI really isn't that complicated and is necessary if you want to go to any intake other than your current DPFI setup.
You could also get some of the newer engines, but you run into several different options then: what engine to choose, and do you keep it OBD0 to match your chassis, or do you convert your chassis to the OBD for the engine.
You can get conversion harnesses to change your chassis to whatever OBD you need, just requires a little extra wiring, but usually no changes to your harness past your engine harness, just running extra wires to the computer.
02-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Make it easy.
Find an engine with D##X# for an engine code.
You only have to satisfy these requirements:
Engine code starts with D,
Came from 88-00 Civic/CRX.
Except D17X# (I think the intake flange is diff.)
Get your engine, remove it's intake manifold and exhaust manifolds.
You have a head and a block bolted together now.
Remove engine from your car, swap intake and exhaust manifolds over to it.
If you see a place on the engine that has an electrical connector, and the same spot on your old engine looks like a diff connector, swap them.
Once your new engine looks more or less like your old engine did, put it in.
Don't forget to use your original engine mount.
Honestly, this is the most painless thing to do if you don't really care about making more power at the moment. If you decide to go MPFI, you need more than just an MPFI engine.. you'll have to get the resistor box and a small stretch of the wiring from the engine too, and you'll have to do some wiring at the ECU. This isn't trying to tell you not to do it, but if you don't have time to diagnose wiring problems (which you probably will have) then just keep it simple.
You can put your DPFI manifold on just about any D series engine there is, lacking the DOHC D's (which won't fit with your tranny anyway (ZC does), at least not correctly, and need a different mount(ZC doesn't) ) and the D17 engines, possibly.
Also - make sure it uses the same fuel type... there is a D series engine that runs on CNG. that would really ruin your day.
02-03-2009, 12:24 PM
Thanks for the info. The swap from DPFI to MPFI doesn't scare me too much, I just didn't know how compatible the DP system would be with other motors. Getting a direct bolt in is getting harder since all the scrapyards around here (London, Ontario, Canada) have squashed most of their 4g civics as they've been stripped bare. There just aren't all that many left in my area, and I'm not sure if they put the DP system on anything past the 4g.
Good to know about the trannys... I think I'll just try to find a scrap Si or something in the area and take the parts since my body is solid.
02-03-2009, 01:50 PM
Yep, just about any D-series motor will openly accept the DPFI system. It won't have the same power as the same engine with MPFI, but it will get you going again in no time flat.
I'm showing a completely different gasket for the D17 engines, so that would mean that you can't use them, although I might be wrong, b/c D17's are missing 2 of the intake stud locations, but the rest might line up correctly so you can just remove the 2 that don't. It also looks like the water port is missing as well, so you'd need that provision also.
That leaves you with D15 and D16 USDM engines, and most widely used D-series JDM/EDM/UKDM/AuDM engines.
Cool thing - you can use a Vtec engine for the swap, as long as you either leave the Vtec solenoid there but not wired in, or get a block off plate for the solenoid. I know several people who have done this b/c you can get D15B's for like $300 usually, and you can't normally find a good engine in a junkyard (around me) for less than $500.
I personally have the advantage of knowing about a yard that I can pull any engine they have for $160 after core charge. ($50 core, $10 enviro fee)
02-03-2009, 03:04 PM
I've been checking on people selling older civics with rotten bodies (sounds like a great name for a death metal band) and came across this place in Toronto.
They have a ZC from an 88-91...non Vtech, I could use my tranny with that motor correct?
Motor mounts would be all the same because of the D series Block.
Since I don't have a power steering rack I should just be able to pull the pump off right?
I had an 89 Si that rotted out so when I stripped it I took things like the ECU from under the passenger carpet, and took basically whatever I could out of the engine bay. What does this MPFI injector box look like so I can see if I have one if this motor doesn't come with it? Also I just bought a new Dizzy and a new Alternator for my 1.5 DPFI not too long ago, I take it the Alternator MIGHT work supposing the plugs are the same, but the Dizzy probably doesn't?
Would I be better off just using my intake system or would it sort of be a waste considering it's a low mileage motor...so I probably should just leave it alone and not mess with it too much?
Again, thanks for all your help.
02-03-2009, 04:04 PM
Power steering you can just leave off the engine, no big deal.
Alternator will work. Distributor won't. A MPFI dizzy will work on a DPFI setup, but it won't work the other way around.
Injector resistor box is a little rectangle metal box that was on the drivers strut tower. Check the FAQ for my How-to on the MPFI and I have a pic of it there, just don't have time to go find it right now for you.
02-03-2009, 04:17 PM
Yeah I just found that thread and there are lots of pictures....I recall that green plug...I might have one of those stashed in a rubbermaid container in storage.
02-03-2009, 06:58 PM
Just picked up a parts car off someone my brother knows. Same motor, tons of new parts including tires. $200...can't complain about that.
Thanks everyone for your help. I'm still in college for another few years, so I might need this swap info yet.
02-03-2009, 08:36 PM
Other thing - you can't use DPFI on that motor if you want... unless you get an adapter plate, which would really not be worth it.
The ZC is a good choice though. It doesn't seem like there is much of an aftermarket for it specifically at first glance, but you'll find parts if you can find places to look that aren't really "mainstream". They're all over the place, and usually cheaper than "mainstream" parts, b/c people have forgotten about the ZC motor, for the most part.
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