1st car: Paint questions

Hi

I am not new to modeling but I am new to car modeling, there are a few steps which I am not familiar with and have questions.
I have read a bunch of faqs and searched the forums too.

1) Where do I buy a polishing kit? Is the wax to shine at the end in the kit too? Can I buy one at autozone or wall-mart or is it strictly a hobby store item? I will use sprayed lacquers for the car body. (You can tell I am clueless about cars.)

2) Are acrylic hobby paints good enough for other parts of the car (Not the body), I mean Tamiya or Testors type paints? Do I purchase these paints flat or gloss ? (I am experienced airbrushing acrylics. I don't want to use enamels don't mention them.)

3) Do you paint the inside of the car body ? Do you use the same color inside as outside?

4) Do you use a respirator when spraying lacquers? Can I spray in my garage with door open instead?

My first car model is Aoshima "Mazda Savannah RX-7" (Kit #038208)

That's it for now

Thanks a lot

Patrick

1- Skip the polishing kit for now. It is really not necessary, especially for your first few builds. It is a fantastic way to add complication and frustration.

Concentrate on putting the paint on in light, even coats. A dozen mist coats always beats 2-3 heavy 'wet' coats. Use the hot water trick to warm the paint cans before spraying- it makes a terrific difference. (The spray lacquers you're using are Tamiya, I hope?)

Also, do not try to apply the body paint all at once. Don't even try to put it on in the same day. Give it a mist coat or two, and then wait an hour before the next mistcoat or two. Patience and technique will take you far. It just takes some investment in time. Bodies cannot be painted quickly (at least not well! :grinno: ).

2- Acrylics are fantastic for the rest of the car. I wouldn't recommend anything else.

3- Usually no. It won't be visible, and therefore isn't worth the effort or paint.

4- Absolutely. You must wear a respirator when spraypainting. Open the garage door, also.

Sounds like a good kit to start on.

Welcome to the hobby!

Concentrate on putting the paint on in light, even coats. A dozen mist coats always beats 2-3 heavy 'wet' coats. Use the hot water trick to warm the paint cans before spraying- it makes a terrific difference. (The spray lacquers you're using are Tamiya, I hope?)


MPWR

I appreciate the answers, I will skip the polishing kit for now.
I haven't purchased spray lacquers yet. I was going to shop around for different brands mentioned here, hobby specially made or automotive.
Shall I absolutely get Tamiya?

Thanks again

Patrick

maybe, in your case.. or most of the other, including me.. its easy to find, use, etc.. but then its actually a matter of personal choice.. whether you want to use tamiya spray, airbrush paint, or even your real car's paint (please dont try for now coz ur lastic will MELT down to the very bottom..)

Tamiya laquers are the best way to go, really user friendly. Don't forget that with metallics you need a clear coat after the base coat.

The only thing with acrylics in my opinion is that you have to airbrush them on, they're not user friendly when brush painting.

Make sure you apply auto primer before applying any type auto paint otherwise the paint will craze the plastic and your model will be a wrecked shell sitting in a wrecking yard dio.

Dingo1 :cool:

Make sure you apply auto primer before applying any type auto paint otherwise the paint will craze the plastic and your model will be a wrecked shell sitting in a wrecking yard dio.

Dingo1 :cool:

Well

It looks as if I am steering clear of automotive lacquers. I don't understand why some people recommend them here if they are going to melt my model no matter how much I prime it?
I will stick to hobby lacquers like Tamiya or Testors, whatever I can find first.

Thanks

Patrick

I strongly recommend Tamiya TS sprays. It is a truly superior product. With some care and patience, a beginner really can manage very satisfactory (even spectacular) results. It may cost a bit more by the once than other options, but it really is worth the difference. (Stay away from Testors enamels for body painting.)

Tamiya lacquers (like all body paint) work best over a good base of primer. Tamiya primer is great for this. Primer should be applied in several coats, sanded smooth with fine abrasive in between coats. The last layer of primer before the paint should be perfect, sanded out to a shine. Get the primer right, and the paint is easy. Get the primer wrong, and it is impossible to correct with paint. Again it's not hard- just take some time and patience. (It usually takes me a week or more to primer/paint/clearcoat a body). Use 1500-2000 grit sandpaper (available at auto parts stores, exactly for this purpose) for sanding the primer.

Auto lacquers can be used on plastic- they just require a good solid base of primer. Tamiya primer can be used for this.

aand id like to add to MPWR's comment on sanding, i usually paint 4-5 coats of clear, and dry sanding the very little bumps of whatever imperfections u can find on every single coat with 3000 grit sand paper then polish it.. manage to perfect your skill on those and the result is gonna be absolutely orgasmic~

the result is gonna be absolutely orgasmic~

Now you are talking! :grinyes:

Thanks for the answer

Patrick

Hi all,

I'm also new to modelling. Thought I could post my questions in this thread as well!

1. When I have removed the mold lines from the body with sandpaper, do I also sand the rest of the body, even if there aren't any molding lines left? (Before I prime the body this is)

2. I saw that beginners should not use compound or wax, but I really want a good shine to my body. If I sand the last coat of primer to a shine, will the Tamiya TS-8 for example be shiny in itself, or does it make much difference if I clear-coat it?

3. In case of clear-coating, is the TS-79 a good choice?


Thanks very much for helping,
Fred

Welcome to AF.

1- Yes, sand the whole body. This gives the primer some 'tooth' to adhere to, and helps you find and fix any other molding flaws on the body. After sanding, scrub the body with dishsoap and an old toothbrush and let dry, and you're ready for primer.

2- There's no reason not to use polishing compound and wax. They will nicely improve the look of the paint. I would recommend both.

If the primer is smooth and shiny and the paint is applied correctly, it certainly will have a gloss. Compound and wax will improve this, and clearcoating is not necessary.

Three reasons to clearcoat are:
If you will be aggressively rubbing out the finish (using micromesh or similar), do this on clearcoat, not the actual paint.

Some paints such as Zero Paint or Tamiya TS metallics require a clearcoat for gloss. But TS solid colors are glossy out of the can, and do not require overcoating.

Clearcoating can be used over decals, to seal and protect them. However clearcoat must be applied properly and with great care over decals. Lacquer clears will quickly destroy decals if it is applied improperly.

3- TS-13 will give a better shine. However it must be applied very slowly, in many light mist coats. Applied thick and wet, it will destroy decals and paint under it.

Thanks foor the answers, cleared things up quite a bit!

So basically if I get the primer and sanding right, the compound and wax could be enough to give the TS basic colour a nice shine without clearcoating.

Yes. If your using metallic color, it needs to be clearcoated before you polish and wax it, but solid colors work fine and can look great without clearcoat.

Hi all,

I'm also new to modelling. Thought I could post my questions in this thread as well!



Scefen

Good questions you ask. It seems those questions never end, for me anyway. :uhoh:

You seem to be a newbie also posting, in the future try to start your own thread as this is called "Thread hijacking" and some people will get real mad at you. Not mad at all here, just figured I would let you know. :wink:

Patrick

Scefen

Good questions you ask. It seems those questions never end, for me anyway. :uhoh:

You seem to be a newbie also posting, in the future try to start your own thread as this is called "Thread hijacking" and some people will get real mad at you. Not mad at all here, just figured I would let you know. :wink:

Patrick

Well I thought since you had your questions answered already I could just ask my painting questions here as well instead of having 30 different threads about almost the same thing, but I'll keep it in mind if it's a general rule on this forum. I've never encountered it in any other forum, but sure I'll respect it.

Well I thought since you had your questions answered already I could just ask my painting questions here as well instead of having 30 different threads about almost the same thing


Bingo.
There are intelligent people in the world after all.

Well I thought since you had your questions answered already I could just ask my painting questions here as well instead of having 30 different threads about almost the same thing, but I'll keep it in mind if it's a general rule on this forum. I've never encountered it in any other forum, but sure I'll respect it.

I think there is no such rule, not here, so don't worry and keep them questions coming! ;)

I think there is no such rule, not here, so don't worry and keep them questions coming! ;)

yeah, I'm actually a mod on another forum, and this is actually encouraged, no need to create multiple threads about the same topic, should keep all 1st paint questions in one place, sometime we would even change a topic title to encourage this... anyways.. on topic

the advice here has really helped me, i've just started to get into acrylics, i previously only used enamels, and they were actually pretty easy to use, especially out of spray can. Now I have a question regarding painting a gloss white car. I have the Tamiya TS gloss white can, and im trying to paint my model. I primed the car with tamiya grey primer, but when i spreay the car, it seems to coat unevenly and looks almost watery, I believe i shook the can enough to mix it properly, I havent tried heating it the paint up with warm water though. It just seems very uneven, and the enamels i used went on very well and the finish almost always came out great. This is my first time using a spray can of acrylic, so i just want to make sure this is normal. Thanks for the help.

TS paints are technically a lacquer, not an acrylic - definitely not water based, at least, and require lacquer thinners instead of water or acrylic thinners for cleanup.

That being said - you may be trying to go too heavy on the first coats. You need to build up a good base of light mist coats before going for a wet coat. Also, for light or bright colors, your final primer coats should be white primer over the grey - this would be for whites, yellows, reds. Tamiya sprays are rather translucent, so spraying over a grey primer coat will darken the final color.

I found the tutorials on www.italianhorses.net to be very helpful in getting a good finish when I was starting back into the hobby - I'd recommend checking them out for a good perspective. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but Alex's steps seem easy to me.

TS paints are technically a lacquer, not an acrylic - definitely not water based, at least, and require lacquer thinners instead of water or acrylic thinners for cleanup.

That being said - you may be trying to go too heavy on the first coats. You need to build up a good base of light mist coats before going for a wet coat. Also, for light or bright colors, your final primer coats should be white primer over the grey - this would be for whites, yellows, reds. Tamiya sprays are rather translucent, so spraying over a grey primer coat will darken the final color.

I found the tutorials on www.italianhorses.net (http://www.italianhorses.net) to be very helpful in getting a good finish when I was starting back into the hobby - I'd recommend checking them out for a good perspective. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but Alex's steps seem easy to me.

ah thanks... that will help, and yeah i probably should have went with the white primer instead of grey.. guess i'll have to go buy that. So for TS paints... whats a good method for removing an entire paint job for a model? I believe the ammonia (windex) is good for acylics, but maybe not so much the tamiya TS paints, again any help appreciated.

Isopropyl alcohol is fantastic for removing Tamiya lacquers. You should be able to find 99% in most grocery or drug stores- if not, the 91% will do. It's best to soak the body in a sealable container. I like to use reusable plastic leftovers containers (also from the grocery store). It will strip the paint and primer, down to clean plastic.

TS colors often are somewhat translucent- so bright colors such as white, yellow, and red do need to be applied over a white base. Tamiya's white primer is perfect for this.

ah thanks... that will help, and yeah i probably should have went with the white primer instead of grey.. guess i'll have to go buy that. So for TS paints... whats a good method for removing an entire paint job for a model? I believe the ammonia (windex) is good for acylics, but maybe not so much the tamiya TS paints, again any help appreciated.

Isopropyl alcohol is fantastic for removing Tamiya lacquers.
TS colors often are somewhat translucent- so bright colors such as white, yellow, and red do need to be applied over a white base. Tamiya's white primer is perfect for this.

MPWR

You are a wealth of information. I am going to research all your posts over the week-end, lots to be learned.

Patrick

Great thread & always a few things you can pick up on - even when you've sparayed a few models & think you have it right. A couple of things:

Patrick, don't be afraid to experiment with different types of spray cans - just be certain on what carries the paint in the can (i.e. acrylic, enamel, lacquer, cellulose). Here in Australia, we can't buy cellulose paint & thinners in Auto stores (they're only available to trade) so I don't have to worry with that one, but I've recently started using a generic enamel spray range from this store, which is basically suitable for indoor/outdoor use. The range is pretty basic but for block colours, they seem perfectly adequate & at AUD4 for a can the size of a water bottle against about AUD13 for a Tamiya spray, represents GREAT value. I've just finished spraying up Tommi's 2000 MC Evo6 with this brands Scarlet Red - awesome colour; really bright, & referring to another post here about Tamiya's rattle can gloss white, the gloss white sprays much better with more coverage (I've always had problems with Tamiya's white).

MPWR: I'm confused why you recommend stearing clear of Testors' spray cans. I used their bright yellow to spray up a Revell 'vette Z06 for the old man. Great colour. Awesome depth to it.

Anyhow, hope this has helped you as well Patrick

Patrick, don't be afraid to experiment with different types of spray cans

Seamus

I will definitely experiment with some non hobby brands that I read are being used here in the states for car modeling. I know there is some money to be saved, I just need to get a hold of some junk plastic cars to experiment first, I don't want to melt any model I want to keep.
For my first car I will definitely use a hobby brand recommended here like Tamiya or testors.
I have been modeling military subjects for a few years and my primer of choice is Krylon which isn't made for the hobby but is cheap and works well for my needs , I have read some modeler stay away from it like the plague and I wonder why ?

Thanks and best regards

Patrick

Seamus

I will definitely experiment with some non hobby brands that I read are being used here in the states for car modeling. I know there is some money to be saved, I just need to get a hold of some junk plastic cars to experiment first, I don't want to melt any model I want to keep.

Thanks and best regards

Patrick

Well mate, I can safely say, if you stick with the 1st 3 I listed, you won't have any probs with styrene bodies melting.

MPWR: I'm confused why you recommend stearing clear of Testors' spray cans. I used their bright yellow to spray up a Revell 'vette Z06 for the old man. Great colour. Awesome depth to it.


Because of the way that enamel cures, it has some characteristics that are not ideal for painting bodies. If you get it all on in one thin, opaque perfect coat, great. If not, it can be very problematic.

Testors does have a new line of lacquer- but I can't say much about it as I haven't tried it.

But Tamiya TS really is a terrific product. It is worth a dollar or two more a can, easily. Paint is not a place to cheap out, and it is not something to rush. Stripping and repainting always costs more time and money than using good paint the right way, and getting it right the first time.

I found that spraying a soda can or two helped me develop my skills without jeopardizing my precious car bodies until I was satisfied with how things looked and reacted. I still shoot a test panel each time I spray a new color/primer combination. I think colors, like people, have personalities and some take time to get to know or just won't get along no matter how gorgeous the container is.

I use plastic spoons to test my paint as it has all the types of surfaces, edges, corners and recesses that a model car can have.
If you can paint a plastic spoon evenly AND polish it up, you will have no problems with a car body.

Good tip drunken monkey.

Thanks for the advice MPWR, I'll keep an eye out for any probs for future builds using this brand of spray. I agree with you re: Tamiya sprays. Love 'em

Hi

I went to Micheals and they don't have any hobby lacquers spray paints.
I stopped at advance auto parts and they have a complete line of dupli-color spray paints which I read several time work well for model car bodies as long as an automotive lacquer is used.
What am I looking for as far as dupli-color? They had only 5 different cans of lacquer but they had a lot of smaller cans called "Dupli-color auto spray", lots of colors in that range (About 40), is that what I need? I try to read the label but no mention of "Lacquer" anywhere.
They had a "dupli-color" sandable primer", is that the primer for lacquer paints? I couldn't find any other primer for dupli-color.

Here is a link to a pic of the dupli-color sprays I saw:

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/autospray.html

Here is a link to the "Dupli-color sandable primer I saw at advance auto parts (It is the one with the red cap on the pic/3rd from left).

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/primer.html

I will buy some Tamiya sprays when I get close to a hobby shop, they are too far just to drive for 2 cans of spray (1 hour each way) but for now I will go with what is close by.

Thanks again

Patrick

I'd say skip the Duplicolor- at least for now. Even if it's easy to find and cheap, even if they're giving it away at the auto parts store. Some people have good luck with it, and some people don't (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5894667&postcount=1).

Tamiya lacquer really is worth the effort to get- especially for your first few builds when you're learning to paint. When you've gotten a couple of builds done and you know how it all works, then it's fine to experiment. But meanwhile do yourself a big favor and learn on the good stuff.

If you can't easily get to a hobby shop that stocks it, you can always order it (http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/swi_tam.htm).

It is said by some that sometimes, it's not worth making things hard for yourself when you don't need to and this is one case where it applies.

I have used my local auto-store primers and paints (Halfords in the UK) before to good effect but having gotten back from HK at the beginning of December with a fresh stash of aerosols, the difference the Halfords sprays and the Tamiya sprays is very noticable.
As good as the auto store primer is, it just isn't as fine and hence easy to spray/lay down orange-peel free surfaces.
Whereas it would take a good week or spray/sand/respray to get a decent surface for colour, with Tamiya primer, it can be done in less than half that time. The same is true with their paint. Tamiya paint, out of a can, sprays/lays much better than any other paint I have tried.

In short, if like me you're only using spray cans, Tamiya makes it easier.
In other words, I have found that other brands, while good and useable, makes things harder when they don't need to be.

In a way, this is where the money goes when you pay extra for the Tamiya sprays. The way I see it, the money goes towards having to spend less time to build a kit.

Hi

Ok you are right, I will start with Tamiya paints.

I want to paint my Aoshima "Savanna RX-7" either red or yellow.
I noticed Tamiya carries several different red sprays, which one should I get (Mica red, italian red...so on)?
Do I have to prime white prior to paint red or yellow or Tamiya gray primer good enough (I read this here to apply white after primer and before bright color like red or yellow.)

Thanks

Patrick

Both red or yellow would need to be sprayed on a white primed surface. Grey primer would darken these colors a lot. Tamiya grey and white primers are really the same except for color. Grey primer is very good for preparing bodies for paint- it makes flaws easier to see and correct. White works just fine, but it is harder to see problems in white. You can use grey to prime it first to get the body perfect and then overcoat it with white, or you can skip the grey and use only white. (Personally I like working in grey, but it is a matter of preference.)

A solid color is probably going to be easier for you to use then a metallic/pearl/mica color. 'Italian Red' is plain generic red- like you'd expect to see on a Ferrari. 'Bright Red' is a brighter, more orangish shade of red.

Hi

Ok I am dead meat, MPWR is going to let me have it since I didn't follow his advice. Well I tried but failed.
I couldn't find Tamiya lacquer spray paints so I got what they have which is Model master.
I got the gray primer, then white and Italian red.
I will get started with these and see what happens. I still have to get some black to do the little trim around my Mazda.
One question?
They mention on the can "2 part system base+clear", do I have to get a clear gloss from them? High gloss or semi-gloss? I assume yes but I want to be sure.
This gloss step is far away, so I have time to get it later on.

Thanks again

Patrick

1. When I have removed the mold lines from the body with sandpaper, do I also sand the rest of the body, even if there aren't any molding lines left? (Before I prime the body this is)
Not necessary. After you've removed any visible mold lines, use a toothbrush to scrub it with Soft Scrub or another abrasive cleaner and warm water. Rinse and dry the car thoroughly before applying primer. If there are any other problems, they'll show up after you prime it.

2. I saw that beginners should not use compound or wax...
I can't imagine why somebody would tell you not to use compound on the final coat. It's a lot safer than sanding, because you're less likely to rub through to the primer or plastic. After using 2000 grit to remove any orange peel or noticeable paint texture from the final coat, use Tamiya Coarse compound for the entire car. (Don't use those red and white Dupont automotive compounds they sell in auto parts stores. They are way too strong.) Then go to Tamiya Fine, and then, if you want a high gloss, Tamiya Finish.

Wax is a pain, because it's hard to remove from all the nooks and crannies. You'll be pleased with the brilliant gloss you'll get with Tamiya Finish.

If I sand the last coat of primer to a shine,
Sanding the primer "to a shine" is a waste of time, especially if you use a smooth primer like Tamiya. Just hit it lightly with 1500, making sure you remove any defects. If you use Tamiya spray-can lacquer for your color coat, clear coating is optional. But it will give you a deeper finish, and there's less chance of burn-through during polishing.

Tamiya TS-13 is the best choice I know of for clear-coating.

As to paint and primer brands, you only need to remember three words: Tamiya, Tamiya and Tamiya. There are others; some are very good, but start with Tamiya and you'll be happy.

Ddms

They mention on the can "2 part system base+clear", do I have to get a clear gloss from them? High gloss or semi-gloss?

This sounds like one of MM's new super-glossy 2-pack automotive-type lacquer systems. Unlike the Tamiya TS-series, you'll need a clear coat in order to get any shine at all. I doubt that they offer a "semi-gloss"; the clear coat will be glossy unless the label says otherwise.

I haven't used the new Model Master 2-pack system, but I'd definitely stick with the same system - not just with MM paint, but with the same MM paint system. When you buy the clear, read the label carefully to make sure it matches your color coat.

Ddms