MY CAR DIED......can I sue GM for not recalling the UIM?
persuazion
11-11-2008, 07:50 PM
Well my car is sitting in a walmart parkinglot tonight..lonely and cold. No coolant in the resevoir even though it was topped off the day before....on my way to work engine lost all power and sputtered and high pitch clicking sound started.It made it to the lot then I turned it off and heard a horrible gurgling noise...and sure enough,it wont start up.It is turning over but thats it.What have I done and what can I do? Why would GM not do a recall on a part they KNOW is supposed to be metal? I have a 99 with only 55,000 miles on it.I changed the oil when I was supposed to...I took care of it like I was supposed to.Should I even attempt to dump money into it not knowing if sumthing else is screwed up and just waiting to break down also.SHould I just sell it for parts and go about my never buying another GM product car shopping? Car trouble sucks....
Scrapper
11-11-2008, 08:31 PM
gurgling don't sound good on that moter imagine you got blown head gasket and or cracked head. got to hot and lost it's compresion. buy a ford rager they hold up.
C man
11-11-2008, 11:00 PM
I strongly doubt you have a head gasket problem. You have to overheat these more than a couple of times to warp a head gasket. I have seen someone ruin one of these engines because they didn't replace a radiator.
More than likely you haven't hydrolocked the engine if it still turns over. 55k seems early even for the plenum problem. I suspect mine happened around 80k and was replaced in 2003...or really thats when the plenum was manufactured. I bought it in 2006 with 108k and currently have 146k with no issues yet. The aftermarket ones are improved. Mine is still a GM but is holding up well. Am I scared yes. Thats why a check the coolant level almost every week.
Will GM ever fess up. NO they would go past bankrupt. There are just to many 3800 plenums to replace. But I wouldn't give up on the car or GM yet. My mom has put 40k on a G6 4cly model in slightly over a year's time. No issues.
Scrapper1, why do you misspell in your post so much...no offense, but to spell "motor" like "moter"
More than likely you haven't hydrolocked the engine if it still turns over. 55k seems early even for the plenum problem. I suspect mine happened around 80k and was replaced in 2003...or really thats when the plenum was manufactured. I bought it in 2006 with 108k and currently have 146k with no issues yet. The aftermarket ones are improved. Mine is still a GM but is holding up well. Am I scared yes. Thats why a check the coolant level almost every week.
Will GM ever fess up. NO they would go past bankrupt. There are just to many 3800 plenums to replace. But I wouldn't give up on the car or GM yet. My mom has put 40k on a G6 4cly model in slightly over a year's time. No issues.
Scrapper1, why do you misspell in your post so much...no offense, but to spell "motor" like "moter"
Scrapper
11-11-2008, 11:19 PM
well do your time in the army and get your scull cracked you might screw up spelling also. but point is u n w i m.
C man
11-12-2008, 06:43 AM
My bad...you want hear any more spelling comments from me, I had just wonderd this when I read thur your post before.
maxwedge
11-12-2008, 07:48 AM
Cool it guys! Number two there is a pending class action suite related to the 3.1 lim gaskets and the 3.8 UIM as well, it will be decided in the courts as of 11/25/08.
'97ventureowner
11-12-2008, 08:17 AM
Cool it guys! Number two there is a pending class action suite related to the 3.1 lim gaskets and the 3.8 UIM as well, it will be decided in the courts as of 11/25/08.
Add to that the "resolution" (for lack of a better term) of the 3.4 gaskets class action suit, one would hope GM has enough money left to pay as they are this close to bankruptcy :eek:.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/general-motors-is-facing-bankruptcy-within-months-1001509.html
Add to that the "resolution" (for lack of a better term) of the 3.4 gaskets class action suit, one would hope GM has enough money left to pay as they are this close to bankruptcy :eek:.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/general-motors-is-facing-bankruptcy-within-months-1001509.html
polarzak
11-12-2008, 08:28 AM
Cool it guys! Number two there is a pending class action suite related to the 3.1 lim gaskets and the 3.8 UIM as well, it will be decided in the courts as of 11/25/08.
Unfortunately I got rid of my bills and the lousy car (96 olds.88). Good luck to those who seek to be reimbursed for this lousy piece of engine technology.
Unfortunately I got rid of my bills and the lousy car (96 olds.88). Good luck to those who seek to be reimbursed for this lousy piece of engine technology.
BNaylor
11-12-2008, 08:29 AM
Since this is a '99 I would not speculate as to the cause until a tear down is performed which should be done as soon as possible. Start by removing the UIM. The '99 up GM cars with SII 3800 normally do not have UIM plenum issues since GM installed a revised one in 1999 and up and a modified EGR stovepipe on the lower intake manifold. Lower intake manifold gaskets are more common to include the UIM gasket.
On the GM class action lawsuit the deadline to join with proof of repairs was around May 31, 2008, otherwise you are SOL.
On the GM class action lawsuit the deadline to join with proof of repairs was around May 31, 2008, otherwise you are SOL.
'97ventureowner
11-12-2008, 08:43 AM
Unfortunately I got rid of my bills and the lousy car (96 olds.88). Good luck to those who seek to be reimbursed for this lousy piece of engine technology.
I'm not as familiar with the other class action suits being brought against GM other than the one that recently closed (10/27/08), but if it still is open, my advice would be to read through all the fine print of the suit as they usually outline what is required to participate. I , too, no longer owned the eligible vehicle in the class action suit( the one that recently closed), but the language set forth said all you needed to do was be an owner or leasee during the time frame the suit covered. They then outline what proof of ownership was acceptable such as a copy of a title or registration, proof of insurance, etc. I called my insurance agent and they sent a statement that I had insurance coverage on said vehicle from 1998 to 2006, which satisfied that requirement.( I sold the vehicle so I no longer had any title or registration documents.)
I also contacted the guy who did the work back in 2001 and he gave me a copy of the invoice for the work, which was another requirement to participate. If you can go back and get copies from all the parties involved, and meet the criteria, as long as the open period for joining the suit is still valid, then you should give it a shot.
I'm not as familiar with the other class action suits being brought against GM other than the one that recently closed (10/27/08), but if it still is open, my advice would be to read through all the fine print of the suit as they usually outline what is required to participate. I , too, no longer owned the eligible vehicle in the class action suit( the one that recently closed), but the language set forth said all you needed to do was be an owner or leasee during the time frame the suit covered. They then outline what proof of ownership was acceptable such as a copy of a title or registration, proof of insurance, etc. I called my insurance agent and they sent a statement that I had insurance coverage on said vehicle from 1998 to 2006, which satisfied that requirement.( I sold the vehicle so I no longer had any title or registration documents.)
I also contacted the guy who did the work back in 2001 and he gave me a copy of the invoice for the work, which was another requirement to participate. If you can go back and get copies from all the parties involved, and meet the criteria, as long as the open period for joining the suit is still valid, then you should give it a shot.
BNaylor
11-12-2008, 08:57 AM
I wouldn't speculate on the lawsuits either. :grinno:
There were many factors including age and mileage. The link below has a good explanation. Also, anyone that tries to sue GM at this point in time with a new lawsuit will probably be barred from doing so. The legal doctrines of res judicata which is claim and issue preclusion and estoppel may apply. The biggest problem is finding a lawyer willing to sue GM and the cost in pursuing this type of litigation.
Dexcool Settlement (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/09/dexcool_settle02.html)
There were many factors including age and mileage. The link below has a good explanation. Also, anyone that tries to sue GM at this point in time with a new lawsuit will probably be barred from doing so. The legal doctrines of res judicata which is claim and issue preclusion and estoppel may apply. The biggest problem is finding a lawyer willing to sue GM and the cost in pursuing this type of litigation.
Dexcool Settlement (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/09/dexcool_settle02.html)
'97ventureowner
11-12-2008, 09:18 AM
I wouldn't speculate on the lawsuits either. :grinno:
There were many factors including age and mileage. The link below has a good explanation. Also, anyone that tries to sue GM at this point in time with a new lawsuit will probably be barred from doing so. The legal doctrines of res judicata which is claim and issue preclusion and estoppel may apply. The biggest problem is finding a lawyer willing to sue GM and the cost in pursuing this type of litigation.
Dexcool Settlement (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/09/dexcool_settle02.html)
:grinyes: That's what I meant when I said one really needs to read the wording of the class action notice to see, 1) if it is still open to new claimants,and 2) if they have an eligible vehicle. The suit that just closed a few weeks back had outlined certain vehicles that were part of the suit. They were broken down into "groups" based on engine size, model, model year, and covered repairs.
From girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html :
COVERED VEHICLES
Vehicles covered under the settlement are divided into three groups. Each group of vehicles is listed below, followed by the covered repairs, for which cash reimbursement is available under the settlement.
Note: If you own one of the models listed below, but (i) with a different engine size than what is listed, or (ii) the vehicle was manufactured using a lower intake manifold gasket other than a nylon/silicone gasket, or (iii) the vehicle is a Group A vehicle manufactured after April 9, 2003, then you are not covered by the settlement and are not eligible to file a claim.
GROUP A VEHICLES- Model years 1995-2003, equipped with 3.1 or 3.4 liter V6 engine, manufactured before April 10, 2003 with a nylon/silicone lower intake manifold gasket.
Buick Century, Rendezvous, Regal, Skylark
Chevrolet Impala, Lumina, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Venture, Corsica, Beretta, Lumina APV
Oldsmobile Alero, Cutlass (Supreme and Ciera), Silhouette
Pontiac Aztek, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Montana, Trans Sport
Group A Covered Repairs: Replacement of failed nylon/silicone lower intake manifold gasket.
Note: Some of these vehicles may have been offered for sale with an engine other than a 3.1-liter or 3.4 -liter V6 engine. Any of the above models sold with an engine other than a 3.1-liter or 3.4 -liter V6 engine are not included and are not eligible to make a claim.
GROUP B VEHICLES- Model years 1995-2004, equipped with 3.8-liter V6 engine (internal GM engine designation RPO L36).
Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal, Riviera
Chevrolet Camaro, Impala, Lumina, Monte Carlo
Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, Intrigue, LSS, Ninety-Eight
Pontiac Bonneville, Firebird, Grand Prix
Group B Covered Repairs: Repairs necessitated by engine coolant sealing issues,including replacement of throttle body gasket, upper intake manifold gasket,lower intake manifold gasket, or intake manifold.
Note: Some of these vehicles may have been offered for sale with an engine other than a 3.8-liter V6 engine RPO L36. Any of the above models sold with an engine other than a 3.8-liter V6 engine RPO L36 are not included and are not eligible to make a claim.
GROUP C VEHICLES- Model years 1995-2000, equipped with 4.3-liter V6 engine.
Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet S-10
GMC Envoy, Jimmy, S-15
Oldsmobile Bravada
Group C Covered Repairs: Repairs necessitated by cooling-system sludge, including cooling-system flush, heater core repairs, water pump repairs, or radiator cap replacement. “Sludge” refers to a rust-like material that can form in the cooling system and whose formation is related to use of Dex-Cool.
There were many factors including age and mileage. The link below has a good explanation. Also, anyone that tries to sue GM at this point in time with a new lawsuit will probably be barred from doing so. The legal doctrines of res judicata which is claim and issue preclusion and estoppel may apply. The biggest problem is finding a lawyer willing to sue GM and the cost in pursuing this type of litigation.
Dexcool Settlement (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/09/dexcool_settle02.html)
:grinyes: That's what I meant when I said one really needs to read the wording of the class action notice to see, 1) if it is still open to new claimants,and 2) if they have an eligible vehicle. The suit that just closed a few weeks back had outlined certain vehicles that were part of the suit. They were broken down into "groups" based on engine size, model, model year, and covered repairs.
From girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html :
COVERED VEHICLES
Vehicles covered under the settlement are divided into three groups. Each group of vehicles is listed below, followed by the covered repairs, for which cash reimbursement is available under the settlement.
Note: If you own one of the models listed below, but (i) with a different engine size than what is listed, or (ii) the vehicle was manufactured using a lower intake manifold gasket other than a nylon/silicone gasket, or (iii) the vehicle is a Group A vehicle manufactured after April 9, 2003, then you are not covered by the settlement and are not eligible to file a claim.
GROUP A VEHICLES- Model years 1995-2003, equipped with 3.1 or 3.4 liter V6 engine, manufactured before April 10, 2003 with a nylon/silicone lower intake manifold gasket.
Buick Century, Rendezvous, Regal, Skylark
Chevrolet Impala, Lumina, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Venture, Corsica, Beretta, Lumina APV
Oldsmobile Alero, Cutlass (Supreme and Ciera), Silhouette
Pontiac Aztek, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Montana, Trans Sport
Group A Covered Repairs: Replacement of failed nylon/silicone lower intake manifold gasket.
Note: Some of these vehicles may have been offered for sale with an engine other than a 3.1-liter or 3.4 -liter V6 engine. Any of the above models sold with an engine other than a 3.1-liter or 3.4 -liter V6 engine are not included and are not eligible to make a claim.
GROUP B VEHICLES- Model years 1995-2004, equipped with 3.8-liter V6 engine (internal GM engine designation RPO L36).
Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal, Riviera
Chevrolet Camaro, Impala, Lumina, Monte Carlo
Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, Intrigue, LSS, Ninety-Eight
Pontiac Bonneville, Firebird, Grand Prix
Group B Covered Repairs: Repairs necessitated by engine coolant sealing issues,including replacement of throttle body gasket, upper intake manifold gasket,lower intake manifold gasket, or intake manifold.
Note: Some of these vehicles may have been offered for sale with an engine other than a 3.8-liter V6 engine RPO L36. Any of the above models sold with an engine other than a 3.8-liter V6 engine RPO L36 are not included and are not eligible to make a claim.
GROUP C VEHICLES- Model years 1995-2000, equipped with 4.3-liter V6 engine.
Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet S-10
GMC Envoy, Jimmy, S-15
Oldsmobile Bravada
Group C Covered Repairs: Repairs necessitated by cooling-system sludge, including cooling-system flush, heater core repairs, water pump repairs, or radiator cap replacement. “Sludge” refers to a rust-like material that can form in the cooling system and whose formation is related to use of Dex-Cool.
BNaylor
11-12-2008, 09:26 AM
Group C Covered Repairs: Repairs necessitated by cooling-system sludge, including cooling-system flush, heater core repairs, water pump repairs, or radiator cap replacement. “Sludge” refers to a rust-like material that can form in the cooling system and whose formation is related to use of Dex-Cool.
That part is a good laugh. :rofl:....:screwy:
The sludge is caused either by exposure to air, improper Dexcool replacement interval, or oil or combustion by-products in the cooling system. Stuff doesn't look like rust to me. :grinno:
That part is a good laugh. :rofl:....:screwy:
The sludge is caused either by exposure to air, improper Dexcool replacement interval, or oil or combustion by-products in the cooling system. Stuff doesn't look like rust to me. :grinno:
auto trainy
11-12-2008, 06:35 PM
My friend is a GM service mgr and told me a story about how it got solid as concrete,I guess service intervals are important when it comes to Dex Cool.
Hapynzap
11-12-2008, 07:23 PM
My 1999 LeSabre UIM went at 135k and even hydro-locked the engine. I replaced it myself and the car runs like a champ now.
Smith1000
11-12-2008, 09:08 PM
I had the same issue while on vacation in Colorado in early September. The UIM in my wife's 97 Lesabre went. Had to get another car to get around and then fixed the Lesabre at a friend's farm near Rocky Ford. We bought a '01 Sable while out there and my wife is still driving it. Says she doesn't want to go back to the Lesabre. I shouldn't have let her drive it across Kansas. I would rather sell the Sable and keep the Lesabre.
The Lesabre was hydro-locked as well. After replacement and starting, it steamed out the exhaust for 30 minutes or more and continued to tick for a couple of weeks. It runs great now, although we haven't driven it at all for 3 weeks at least. I keep thinking I'll switch to it and get rid of our other 97 Lesabre, which has over 200,000 on it. Both are running great at the moment though and I don't feel like getting rid of either of them.
The Lesabre was hydro-locked as well. After replacement and starting, it steamed out the exhaust for 30 minutes or more and continued to tick for a couple of weeks. It runs great now, although we haven't driven it at all for 3 weeks at least. I keep thinking I'll switch to it and get rid of our other 97 Lesabre, which has over 200,000 on it. Both are running great at the moment though and I don't feel like getting rid of either of them.
Scrapper
11-12-2008, 09:24 PM
i'd keep lasaber if you been keeping up the maitnance that 3.8 or 3800 witch are the same. i've seen those go up to 400'000 mls and still running fine.have you to changed the harmotic balancer or timing chain since you had the car? these cars will run fore ever when taken care of.
Smith1000
11-13-2008, 06:07 PM
I haven't changed the harmonic balancer or timing chain in either one. The one I drive regularly runs like a champ and has been the best car I have ever had without a doubt. The one that my wife used to drive is every bit as good or better. At the same time, I'm not tired of driving the car yet. Some vehicles I have had I just get tired of driving and want to move them on.
persuazion
11-19-2008, 04:26 PM
dealer said that the uim was cracked and leaking into the cylindars causing it not to start...said that a full flush,new gasket,and spark plugs would be 900...also said that since its turning over that there shouldnt be further damage but they wont know until they get it started and running...i want to know what the high pitch clicking sound was when I accelerated....it would go away during driving but it was bad when i first start it in the morning...
Smith1000
11-19-2008, 06:49 PM
Sounds familiar. The clicking is proably the same as the ticking I experienced. It's coolant in the engine making the valves click. After repairing mine, it went away gradually. I added some Seafoam (per BNaylor) to the engine oil to get the moisture out. This resolved it fairly quickly. It would do it at start up and then gradually subside. It no longer ticks though and it is running good.
happydog500
11-20-2008, 02:42 PM
This resolved it fairly quickly. It would do it at start up and then gradually subside. It no longer ticks though and it is running good.Just wanted to make sure I understand what your saying. It no longer ticks, even at start up?
Chris.
Chris.
Smith1000
11-20-2008, 06:37 PM
Right. The ticking went away gradually. Right after repairing it, it would tick loudly at start up for an extended period of time. It would go away though after driving it awhile. It would return at start up, but over a number of days, the "ticking period" shortened. I added Seafoam and that silenced it for good. It can sit for 2 weeks and at start up, there is no longer any ticking. I presume it was residual moisture in the engine. The car was hydro-locked and would not turn over before repairing.
persuazion
11-20-2008, 07:08 PM
where do u ad the seafoam at?
Smith1000
11-21-2008, 06:17 AM
I added about 8 ounces of Seafoam engine treatment to the engine oil. Run it for a few days and then change the oil.
I have 2 '97 Lesabres and they have both "ticked" with this issue. The UIM gasket failed in the other one about 4 years ago. It did not lock up though. I do recall it ticking shortly after start up before I replaced the gasket. There was coolant in the engine and on the engine as well. After the repair the ticking stopped immediately.
The other gasket failed in the other Buick on vacation this past September and I tried to run it longer than I should have. It never got hot as I was adding coolant and watching the temp. Turned out, it was really sucking coolant into the intake. It finally died in a cloud of exhaust in Walsenburg, Colorado. I almost junked it, but was able to fix it by the end of the week. It had a lot of coolant in the engine though. I pulled the plugs and cranked it over. It really sprayed out the plug holes. It eventually cleared up entirely (the ticking) about 2 or 3 weeks after we were home. My wife hasn't driven the car since because we bought a used 2001 Sable when in Colorado. She seems to want to drive the Sable now.
I have 2 '97 Lesabres and they have both "ticked" with this issue. The UIM gasket failed in the other one about 4 years ago. It did not lock up though. I do recall it ticking shortly after start up before I replaced the gasket. There was coolant in the engine and on the engine as well. After the repair the ticking stopped immediately.
The other gasket failed in the other Buick on vacation this past September and I tried to run it longer than I should have. It never got hot as I was adding coolant and watching the temp. Turned out, it was really sucking coolant into the intake. It finally died in a cloud of exhaust in Walsenburg, Colorado. I almost junked it, but was able to fix it by the end of the week. It had a lot of coolant in the engine though. I pulled the plugs and cranked it over. It really sprayed out the plug holes. It eventually cleared up entirely (the ticking) about 2 or 3 weeks after we were home. My wife hasn't driven the car since because we bought a used 2001 Sable when in Colorado. She seems to want to drive the Sable now.
Hapynzap
11-21-2008, 07:19 AM
My 1999 LeSabre that had the UIM fail, I recently did my first oil change since it was fixed and I got a quart of zmax off eBay and put 12 oz in the engine and 6 oz in the transmission. It is really running smooth now. The transmission used to clunk a little when shifting into 3rd while under hard acceleration but now it is just fine.
persuazion
11-22-2008, 05:13 PM
ok got my car back and runs fine now....no ticking or stuttering of any kind...actually has more power then Ive felt in a long time....but the bastards dident even top the coolant off to the cold line.....28 dollars worth of coolant and they couldnt even fill it all the way up...so Im gonna ad some.....do i ad the dex cool full coolant or the 50/50 kind?? and the kind they put in is redish pink but the kind I seen at the store is orange......does it matter what color it is?
BNaylor
11-22-2008, 08:58 PM
.but the bastards dident even top the coolant off to the cold line.....28 dollars worth of coolant and they couldnt even fill it all the way up...so Im gonna ad some.....do i ad the dex cool full coolant or the 50/50 kind?? and the kind they put in is redish pink but the kind I seen at the store is orange......does it matter what color it is?
Depending on where you live you should use a hydrometer to check the coolant mix for proper freeze or boilover protection but I see you live down South. 50/50 protection should be fine. The pure Dex-cool should be mixed with distilled water at 50/50 or you can use the Dex-cool 50/50 premix. GM brand Dex-cool Part # 12346290 (1 gallon) is a solid orange in color when new.
Depending on where you live you should use a hydrometer to check the coolant mix for proper freeze or boilover protection but I see you live down South. 50/50 protection should be fine. The pure Dex-cool should be mixed with distilled water at 50/50 or you can use the Dex-cool 50/50 premix. GM brand Dex-cool Part # 12346290 (1 gallon) is a solid orange in color when new.
j cAT
11-23-2008, 10:16 AM
Well my car is sitting in a walmart parkinglot tonight..lonely and cold. No coolant in the resevoir even though it was topped off the day before....on my way to work engine lost all power and sputtered and high pitch clicking sound started.It made it to the lot then I turned it off and heard a horrible gurgling noise...and sure enough,it wont start up.It is turning over but thats it.What have I done and what can I do? Why would GM not do a recall on a part they KNOW is supposed to be metal? I have a 99 with only 55,000 miles on it.I changed the oil when I was supposed to...I took care of it like I was supposed to.Should I even attempt to dump money into it not knowing if sumthing else is screwed up and just waiting to break down also.SHould I just sell it for parts and go about my never buying another GM product car shopping? Car trouble sucks....
this problem on a vehicle of this age is to be expected..coolant systems in warm climates are usually neglected...insuffient coolant ...this causes excessive corrosion..
anytime you continue to operate a vehicle that consumes coolant on a regular basis you are looking for an engine replacement...as the damage increases to total destruction..
GM and the other domestics are bankrupt,,,it will be interesting if they do compensate those many vehicle owners that got the screw job by GM...
remember you want to sue a company that is solvent..when GM declares bankruptcy this and other claims will be as dead as your vehicle..
this problem on a vehicle of this age is to be expected..coolant systems in warm climates are usually neglected...insuffient coolant ...this causes excessive corrosion..
anytime you continue to operate a vehicle that consumes coolant on a regular basis you are looking for an engine replacement...as the damage increases to total destruction..
GM and the other domestics are bankrupt,,,it will be interesting if they do compensate those many vehicle owners that got the screw job by GM...
remember you want to sue a company that is solvent..when GM declares bankruptcy this and other claims will be as dead as your vehicle..
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