Ok this is a new thread to an old post, on a 98 plymouth voyager. We thought the battery was dead but before we jumped it, it started on it's on. When I turned it off it started clicking and my door thingy was dinging. My key was NOT in the switch. My husband pulled relay #13 out of the fuse box under the dash. Everything stopped then. It was burnt. we bought a new one but when we put it in it started clicking as well. With it dark and raining we couldn't fool with it very long. I'm assuming there is a short somewhere. Any suggestions on where to start?
Also all the "old" transmission symptoms and no speedometer, ect are still going on. Is there a connection maybe. Am I missing something? Any and all advice appreciated.
Beth

Clicking relays are a classic sign of a week battery. Get it charged and load tested if it's 4 years old or less. Above that buy a new battery. Make sure the battery connections are clean and tight.

Hearing the chime go off with the key out - ditto. The chime is in the Body Control Module better known as the BCM. The BCM is powered by the battery at all times.

Can you give us a link to your original thread?

Clicking relays are a classic sign of a week battery. Get it charged and load tested if it's 4 years old or less. Above that buy a new battery. Make sure the battery connections are clean and tight.

Hearing the chime go off with the key out - ditto. The chime is in the Body Control Module better known as the BCM. The BCM is powered by the battery at all times.

Can you give us a link to your original thread?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=920482

I am planning on getting a new battery. Would a low battery cause the relay to "burn/blow" (not sure what to call it) but when it was pulled out 3 out of the 5 prongs were very black where it went into the plastic part and the rest was very white, I was told that, that was a sign of the fuse box burning my relay. Was I told wrong? Thanks a bunch for your help.
Beth

A low battery will not cause it to start by itself , you either have a short some where, or the fuse box is bad or maybe the ignition switch is gone.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=920482

I am planning on getting a new battery. Would a low battery cause the relay to "burn/blow" (not sure what to call it) but when it was pulled out 3 out of the 5 prongs were very black where it went into the plastic part and the rest was very white, I was told that, that was a sign of the fuse box burning my relay. Was I told wrong? Thanks a bunch for your help.
Beth

First it would be nice to know exactly which relay you're talking about. Most schematics, including mine don't ID relays by a number. They label them with the title of the circuit they are controlling. Can you make a better ID on the burned relay?

When you replace the relay, clean the contacts as best you can using electrical contact cleaner. Spray the relay socket contacts then insert and remove the new relay several times. Spray it again and repeat. The contacts sliding in and out along with the spray cleaner should clean them.

Yes, a week battery can burn a relay. A week battery supplying an unstable voltage can create voltage spikes. Turning this or that system off will make things worse. I'm not saying there is no chance in hell there is no short. No, you weren't told wrong. I'm saying a week battery is another possibility and from what you are describing I would check out the battery first before anything else. The battery is the heart of the electrical system on the van. If it is week, strange things can happen including clicking relays.

When you said "it started on it's own" I took that to mean it started because you jumped it. Angus10 is infering it started with no action from you. Which is the case? By the way. Making the car start by connecting/"jumping" another battery to the system is another sign you have a week battery or at least poor connections.

A weak battery can do all sorts of things. I went through this last weekend. Chimes were on, ABS light on, etc. Replace the battery and you should be good. A weak battery can sometimes recharge itself (don't ask me how) enough to get a start or 2 out of it before the voltage drops too low again. Did that last weekend too. Low voltage will make lights dim, relays click, warning lights on, chimes on, etc. And, yes, even with the ignition off and key out. I speak from personal experience on all this.

Hmmm-- read your previous post - maybe someone with experience can say whether a weak battery would affect the transmission computer to cause your shifting dilemma. The way low voltage messes with electronics, I'd think it possible. The battery is very important to all the vehicle electronics - it's not just there to run the starter.

First it would be nice to know exactly which relay you're talking about. Most schematics, including mine don't ID relays by a number. They label them with the title of the circuit they are controlling. Can you make a better ID on the burned relay?

When you replace the relay, clean the contacts as best you can using electrical contact cleaner. Spray the relay socket contacts then insert and remove the new relay several times. Spray it again and repeat. The contacts sliding in and out along with the spray cleaner should clean them.

Yes, a week battery can burn a relay. A week battery supplying an unstable voltage can create voltage spikes. Turning this or that system off will make things worse. I'm not saying there is no chance in hell there is no short. No, you weren't told wrong. I'm saying a week battery is another possibility and from what you are describing I would check out the battery first before anything else. The battery is the heart of the electrical system on the van. If it is week, strange things can happen including clicking relays.

When you said "it started on it's own" I took that to mean it started because you jumped it. Angus10 is infering it started with no action from you. Which is the case? By the way. Making the car start by connecting/"jumping" another battery to the system is another sign you have a week battery or at least poor connections.

When I said started on it own, I mean that it started without being jumped off. I went to start it. It did nothing. No clicks, popping, or any noise. It was like I hadn't even turned the key on. I didn't have another car here so when my husband got home from work, about an hour later we were going to jump it off but he tried it and it cranked right up with no jump. (sorry didn't really think about how that sounded.)

About the relay. I can't find anything telling me what relay is what. I Will dig deeper into that to find out what it was for.

I went and bought a new battery and new cables. They will be installed this weekend. I will update then. I also have another question. How can I tell what type/name the transmission is? My uncle is bringing me what I think is a shop repair manual and it has directions on how to reset the transmission. I am going to plunder through the book to see what I can find and hopefully I will have an update over the weekend. Thanks again for all ya'lls help.
Beth

If the shift indicator says PRND3L you have the 4 speed 41TE transaxle. I don't recall the 3 speed transaxle shift pattern. I'd bet if you gave your dealer the VIN number they could tell you. As far as I know all Chrysler transmissions are made by Chrysler. Most at a plant in Kokomo, Indiana. When you change your battery you will reset the transaxle.

Ok I do have the 4 speed transmission. Another question RIP if you don't mind (or anyone else that may know) Do you know where I can find a complete (or as much as I can get) wiring diagrams? My advanced auto store doesn't even have the simplest of repair manual for this model and will have to order it. So even If I have to order it online if a free one isn't available, will work. When changing the battery cables out, hubby found 2 broken wires, but isn't sure what they go to. A diagram would sure help. Ok. I think that is it for now. Thanks again.
Beth

Ck the post for the online service manuals

Ok I do have the 4 speed transmission. Another question RIP if you don't mind (or anyone else that may know) Do you know where I can find a complete (or as much as I can get) wiring diagrams? My advanced auto store doesn't even have the simplest of repair manual for this model and will have to order it. So even If I have to order it online if a free one isn't available, will work. When changing the battery cables out, hubby found 2 broken wires, but isn't sure what they go to. A diagram would sure help. Ok. I think that is it for now. Thanks again.
Beth

jpb53's post is a good suggestion. You'll find the link to them in a thread labeled "Free Online Service Manuals" posted by tempfixit. Takes many clicks to get to what you need but, they are free. Other online sources for a fee are Alldata.com and Mitchels. You subscribe for around $15. You can get Haynes or Chiltons manuals at most auto parts stores or online. Cost around $20. Of course the best source are the factory manuals at around $100. Many times libraries have copies of Haynes and Chiltons manuals on hand. Might try them.

Are these two broken wires hanging out of a thicker wire bundle near or directly under the battery? I've read of tranny problems traced to this bundle. Tell me the color including any stripes and I may be able to give some specifics.

Is there any way you could post pictures of the broken wires? At times even if a person gives the best description they can put together it just isn't good enough. All the info you can provide will help.

In my owners manual ('97) all I can see regarding cavity 13 in the dash fuse box says it is a 10 amp spare fuse.
In the power distribution center under the hood, #13 is a 20 amp mini fuse controlling the stop lights and the center stop light.

Ok. We found the two broken wires. Guess what they were to?!?! The output speed sensor. It looks like rats or something chewed them in two. The connector that you plug into the output speed sensor it completly off. I called the dealer since it's a "dealer" only part. You can't buy just the connector, but have to buy the whole wiring harness. $400!! NOT in my budget. So monday I will spend the day calling junk/salvage yards to see if I can find one cheaper. My husband and I had both looked at this connecter and it seemed fine, I don't know if it was loose and with us digging around in there we tore it off completly or what. We only found it when after taking the battery out and changing the cables. I really hope that maybe that was the problem all along. Not going to hold my breath though.
The repair manual that I borrowed ended up being for the vans with the A604 transmissions which I don't think I have. I found a regular manual online (ebay) pretty cheap, but the seller told me it didn't have a lot of infomration about transmissions in, mainly how to remove and install. If I'm going to keep this van and buy a book I would really rather have the factory manuals.
I'm hoping that adding the battery, and new cables, along with the new relay will work. We are not going to do much more to it till we find the connector for speed sensor. I really hope that was the problem all along. Thanks again for all the messages you all have posted. I will post updates as soon as possible. Thanks again.

Is the connector broken? If not, can't you just splice the wires back together?

This is a link to A connector. Not sure if it is THE connector you need. Look elsewhere on the website if it's not. http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/A604_41TE_speed_sensor_repair_harness_p/570-00057389b.htm

The A604 is a tranny series. The 41TE is one tranny in that series.

Input speed sensor part #5014469AA. Output speed sensor part#5014471AA. These are the connectors with pig tail. They are $27.82 each at
https://www.dodgeparts.com/oe_parts_catalog.html The info for this was in the online service manual in a bulletin for automatic transaxle. A604 trans is basically the same as yours in your van.

Ok Rip I didn't know that about the transmissions. The book I have is for a 91-95 but says that ALL A604 transmissions have to go through an Upshift and Kickdown learning procedure. "Here is what the book says: Since the a604 is equipped with a learning function, each time the battery cable is disconnected, the ECM memory is lost. In operation the transaxle must be shifted many times for the learned memory to be reinputed in the ECM; during this period, the vehicle will experience rough operation."
Would this still be the case even though this is a later model? I'd never heard of anything like that.

That does look like the connector that we need, but HOPEFULLY my hubby fixed it. He replace the wires and made a pigtail. If it doesn't work though those websites will come in VERY handy. We also are having to make a battery cable because no one around here sells the one we need.

It's dark so I don't know if we'll get it put back together tonight, but I will post updates as they come. THANKS SOOOO much for all the help. Ya'll don't know how much I appreciate it.
Beth

These transmissions can "learn" your driving habits and adjust to them. If you are gentle on the throttle, gradual acceleration, the transmission will shift more softly. If you are a more aggressive driver, the shifts will be more firm. The dealer can perform a "quick learn" on the transmission computer to set in some basic settings, or it will learn by driving, though it takes longer.

Yes, I'd have to say it has a learning procedure. To tell the truth though it's hardly worth mentioning. I've disconnected the battery on my and other vans many times without performing a learning procedure with no adverse effects. Peterjon1 is on the right track. If you must, make smooth accelerations the first few drives then punch it a few times as if you're passing a car on a two lane road. Let it accelerate up to speed. Not a major deal.

As I recall, the major part of the "learning" is it measures and remembers the time it takes for the valves to fill with fluid as it shifts through the gears. There's a term for it but the bean let it go long ago.

CVI = clutch volume index

That's a good thing to know. (about the learning)The way the book words it it's a long drawn out process. I was thinking that I'd have to spend half the day doing all the steps it says to do. We have one more bolt that hubby's got to get today and it will be all hooked back up and we'll get to try it out. We did flip the switch to see if the clicking and dinging went away, and yes it did. I will post hopefully good news later this evening. Thanks.
Beth

Ok. 3 weeks and a couple of hundred bucks poorer...I'm happy to report I think we've fixed it. Put last of everything back together. When we first drove it, it shifted VERY hard. We tried to be very easy with it and it did up and downshift through EVERY gear. When warm we checked the fluid it was a little over full (due to a problem of the solenoid gasket leak and we added more) but we drained out about a quart and 1/2. Drove it again starting and stopping and everything things seems to be ok. We checked the fluid again and all seems well. My husband and I think that the output speed sensor started the trouble and when we replaced it the brittle wires broke without us knowing it and caused some of the other things along with the bad battery and cables. Not sure what was going on with the battery but when we got to looking it looked like it had been boiling over and had burned a spot on the "felt" type stuff on the inside of the hood. But any way I just wanted to say THANK YOU TO EVERYONE HERE. I would have never been able to figure any of this stuff out without ya'll and I really appreciate it. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=920482) I'm cross posting this to my original thread which is the link above. Again thanks soooo much to you all.
Beth

Glad to hear things are looking way up. You two did a great job of hangin in there and getting it done.

One thing. I read your previous thread and see you changed the TCM. The good book says you must have a shop or the dealer reset the "pinion factor" for your speedo to read correctly. I've never delt with changing a TCM before so I'm not sure how critical that is. I would think that if you did a speed check on a highway by timing between mile markers and it was close, you could pass on the check. We'll be waiting for a final thumbs up in a day or two. Don't forget about us.:cheers:

Ok I have driven the van all week. Well what I could with the gas shortage here in GA, but about 200 miles and All seems to be fine. I did what you suggested RIP and the speedo seems fine. Everything seems to be ok. The van has over 200k miles so I will be gratefull for any time I get here on out. :) Thanks again for all of you guys help!!!!
Beth

Great to hear a story of perseverance that pays off. Great job.