Plymouth Voyager transmission Problem Please Help!!


bethanyam
09-05-2008, 02:32 PM
I have a 1998 Plymouth voyager. 3.3L engine. with a 4 speed transmission.
I have NEVER had any trouble with the transmission.
Saturday - Kept going into "limp mode" about 1 mile from home
Immediatly changed fluid, gasket, screen, ect. (used atf not mercon or whatever it's call) Hubby drove about 5 miles No problems.
Sunday - I drove 15 miles and went into limp mode again. This time the speedometer was flopping all around. Would go to 100 then to 30 then to 0 and back to 100.
I took the van home and parked it.
Wednesday - We put in a new output speed sensor. the only difference is now the speedometer does NOT work at all.
Thursday - put in a new input speed sensor. NO change.
I'm going to carefully and slowly drive to parts store to have it scanned today. The local garage wants $60.00 just to scan it. I just don't have the funds to go there right now and I don't really have the money to keep playing a guessing game either. According to the readout I get today does anyone have any ideas on what could possibly cause this? There is no hesitation, jerking, ect when going into park, reverse, or drive it just does not change out of second gear when you speed up. Other than replacing or rebuilding the transmission the only other things I can think of that might cause this is the transmission control solenoid or the transmission control module. One more question. DOes the computer have to be reset after adding the sensors to "pick" them up? THANK YOU TO ANY AND ALL ANSWERS.
Bethany

RIP
09-05-2008, 05:00 PM
Autozone and other stores will scan your van for free. If you can't get it there, short of using a scanner, you can cycle the key from off to on 3 times, leaving it on (not start). Now count the flashes of the service engine soon light*. The combination of flashes indicate the MIL code stored in the engine computer. All codes have two digits, each divided by a pause. You'll see a longer pause between multiple codes. Should end with a code 55.

Make sure there is no difference meaning contact spacing is identicle between the old and new sensors connectors. There is a TSB out for mismatched contacts on new sensors for late 90s vans.

* or read the 4 digit "P" code on the odometer readout if you have a digital dash

bethanyam
09-05-2008, 06:31 PM
Ok went to advanced auto and it came back with 5 codes.
P0731 Gear 1 ratio incorrect
P0500 Vehicle speed sensor a malfuntion
P0700 transmission control system malfuntion

Also this time after a few miles the odometer stopped working, my gas hand stopped working(it did start back) and my air conditioner stopped blowing cold air (it started back) and my temerature gage shot up to the "h" and When I turned the air off it went right back down to halfway. It did not go up anymore even when I turned the air back on. I got out and checked the radiator (I didn't open it of course) but nothing smelled hot or was spewing or anything. i'm going to let my husband read your response to so he can check those things you mentioned out. Thank you very much for your help and will appreciate any other advice, ideas, even comments you may have about the vehicle.
Bethany

peterjon1
09-05-2008, 07:13 PM
changing the output speed sensor, I would guess that either the new sensor is bad, or there is a broken wire in the sensor circuit, as it went from bad to worse after changing the sensor.
Guess # 2: The oddness with the gauge readings could be due to a problem with the BCM. Pull the IOD fuse in the power distribution center under the hood for a few minutes. This will reboot the BCM computer, which can fix many odd things. You will probably lose radio presets doing this, FYI.
Also, lots of things can be caused by a marginal battery. How old is yours?
**When you did the transmission fluid, you did use ATF +4 (or +3) didn't you? Absolutely no Dexron or Mercon?**

peterjon1
09-05-2008, 07:16 PM
Sorry, the first part of my answer above got lost. Started out as -
Guess #1: Since the problem with the speedometer went from bad to worse when ---

littlebitofinsanit
09-05-2008, 09:31 PM
to whom it may concern

ihad the same problem in 95 voyager first check wires under battery they are tranny if you check tranny fluid and no metal it is the ecm about 125 tom livenberger dodge hanover that problem was about 200 bucks all said and done the program it solenoids also then drive slow 100 miles to program shifting is expensive but 4 spd have this problem eventualy

bethanyam
09-07-2008, 09:39 AM
Ok another question. When reading all the other posts I checked the fluid that hubby put into the van, when he change the fluid. The parts store had sold him plain ATF. Well we got our money back and we got ATF+4. He's changing it back right now. the other aft was in there for a week and driven 3 times...not very far other than the first time when we thought it was fixed. Could this have cause all the other problems? Thanks to anyone who may have any answers I can use.
Bethany

angus10
09-07-2008, 10:55 AM
When you change the fluid you are not really changing it all! There is some left in various other places and the TC. So the wrong fluid has has circulated throughout the tranny. By droping the pan and changing it again there will still be some of the wrong fluid left. Might not hurt it too bad, but I would change it again in a week or so to be safe, to really get it dilluted with the ATF4.

BTW! What fluid exactly was he sold the first time?

bethanyam
09-07-2008, 11:12 AM
The bottle just said ATF it was advanced auto's store brand. It said "suitable for dodges" on the bottle.

angus10
09-07-2008, 11:33 AM
Thats what I was wondering! At least it said for dodges. If it was dexron or mercron things would be worse. The ATF4 should dilute what was in there enough for there to be no long term problem.

angus10
09-07-2008, 11:34 AM
And as what was stated above , I would look into a wire prob or defective speed sensor.

bethanyam
09-07-2008, 11:39 AM
With both the input and output sensors having been replaced I'm wondering if it could be the transmission control module...i think that is what it is called. The replacement part is $160.00 do you have any idea if the old one is "testable" when taken out to see if it is really bad. I've also had someone tell me that I can buy that at a junkyard a lot cheaper, but then again I worry about "how" to tell if it is a good part. I have bought things like an alternator (not for this vehicle) at the junk yard and it saved me tons of money and lasted for years. thanks for all of your time and help. :)
Bethany

angus10
09-07-2008, 11:50 AM
Junk yard is cheapest way, and the ones I go to if it doesn't work you have 7 days to return it.

diggerdon
09-07-2008, 03:17 PM
I have a 1998 Plymouth voyager. 3.3L engine. with a 4 speed transmission.
I have NEVER had any trouble with the transmission.
Saturday - Kept going into "limp mode" about 1 mile from home
Immediatly changed fluid, gasket, screen, ect. (used atf not mercon or whatever it's call) Hubby drove about 5 miles No problems.
Sunday - I drove 15 miles and went into limp mode again. This time the speedometer was flopping all around. Would go to 100 then to 30 then to 0 and back to 100.
I took the van home and parked it.
Wednesday - We put in a new output speed sensor. the only difference is now the speedometer does NOT work at all.
Thursday - put in a new input speed sensor. NO change.
I'm going to carefully and slowly drive to parts store to have it scanned today. The local garage wants $60.00 just to scan it. I just don't have the funds to go there right now and I don't really have the money to keep playing a guessing game either. According to the readout I get today does anyone have any ideas on what could possibly cause this? There is no hesitation, jerking, ect when going into park, reverse, or drive it just does not change out of second gear when you speed up. Other than replacing or rebuilding the transmission the only other things I can think of that might cause this is the transmission control solenoid or the transmission control module. One more question. DOes the computer have to be reset after adding the sensors to "pick" them up? THANK YOU TO ANY AND ALL ANSWERS.
Bethany
My wife's 1999 Chrysler T&C had a similar problem and it was due to the Output Speed Sensor failing. In her case the speedometer went to zero and stayed there but if your sensor fails differently the speedometer would "flop around"' This sensor is on the transmission straight below the battery. I had to remove the air cleaner stuff to access it from the top looking down. The part cost $27.09 at the Chrysler dealer here in Virginia. It probably wouldn't cost much for labor to have it replaced. Big sigh of relief, huh?

PS: This fix was found as a reply to someone else in 2007, so I didn't come up with it - just used it.

diggerdon
09-07-2008, 03:33 PM
With both the input and output sensors having been replaced I'm wondering if it could be the transmission control module...i think that is what it is called. The replacement part is $160.00 do you have any idea if the old one is "testable" when taken out to see if it is really bad. I've also had someone tell me that I can buy that at a junkyard a lot cheaper, but then again I worry about "how" to tell if it is a good part. I have bought things like an alternator (not for this vehicle) at the junk yard and it saved me tons of money and lasted for years. thanks for all of your time and help. :)
Bethany

You may have gotten a bad output speed sensor or it is not connected properly.

Remove the output speed sensor and check across the two pins with an ohmmeter. If it has some resistance, it is probably OK - but if wide open or infinite resistance (opposite from 0) it is bad. This would result in a zero speed reading on your speedometer. Since the car thinks it isn't moving it will never go to a higher gear.

bethanyam
09-07-2008, 06:26 PM
You may have gotten a bad output speed sensor or it is not connected properly.

Remove the output speed sensor and check across the two pins with an ohmmeter. If it has some resistance, it is probably OK - but if wide open or infinite resistance (opposite from 0) it is bad. This would result in a zero speed reading on your speedometer. Since the car thinks it isn't moving it will never go to a higher gear.

Ok i do have an ohmmeter, but I'm not sure what setting that I need to do the reading on. Any advice. I'm not sure what any setting are other than temperature and continuity so if you could be very specific that would be GREAT. Thank you.

diggerdon
09-08-2008, 01:43 PM
Ok i do have an ohmmeter, but I'm not sure what setting that I need to do the reading on. Any advice. I'm not sure what any setting are other than temperature and continuity so if you could be very specific that would be GREAT. Thank you.

My voltmeter is so cheap it only has one option for ohms but the new speed sensor seemed to have 1000 or so ohms (not 10,000 or 100,000). My ohmmeter is one step better than a continuity tester but continuity is what i mostly use it for. So if you have a 10,000 ohm range, that would be a good place to check it.

Sorry so long to get back to you. Let the forum know how this and other stuff works. We are all interested!

Best of Luck!

Digger

bethanyam
09-10-2008, 08:01 AM
Ok..some more questions and updates. The new output sensor is reading about 1600 according to my husband. He put the old parts back in to see if it made any difference. Nothing changes when switching the new and old sensors and vice versa. He pulled the Transmission control module off (at least that's what we think it is...any body got a picture of one?) But now we are not sure if it is bad or not.....can you have that part alone tested? I did find one at a junkyard for $50 vs $179 from advanced auto, he does guarentee it work, but won't take it back because it's an electronic part. So I'm not sure what to do there. My other question is Is there a difference in the way people "scan" things? If I take it to a garage and have it scanned can they specifically tell me what part is bad so that I can replace it? The cheapest place (garage) that I can find is $40.00, but if they are going to tell me the same thing (codes) that advanced did I just don't see the point. Ok...that's all I can think of for now, if we get any new results I will post asap. Thanks again for EVERYONES help.
Bethany

diggerdon
09-10-2008, 10:04 AM
I think your output speed sensor is OK with the 1600 reading - our new one was approx. (very approx!) 1000 or so (probably 1600 also).

Any garage/parts place will use a scan tool that plugs into only one place on your vehicle and will read the codes your vehicle's computer has saved. The scan tools may differ but they will all plug into the same place and will read the same codes. Those codes will be the same as the ones attained by the method someone explained as a "KEY TOGGLE" method.

Picture - our (99) van is away from home so i can't take a photo of it and the manual we have is a Haynes for Dodge Plymouth Chrysler 1996 thru 2002. Can't get scanner to copy that page (7-7) of the manual.

Hope someone can help with pic and test of Tran Control Module. :banghead:

BOL - digger

Spit
09-10-2008, 02:22 PM
You could have a problem with the solid state fan relay, that controls your radiator fan/fans causing the fluctuation in engine temp. This in turn could be causing transmission problems. The ATF-4 circulates through a portion of the radiator...so when the fans don't work it heats up fast

A major cause of transmission failures in these vans is overheating the ATF-4. Somewhere on the internet you can see a chart that shows how fast the ATF-4's lubricating properties deteriorate with rising temp. The higher the temp the lower the number of miles it lasts, and I mean it's a huge difference from a normal 30,000 miles for normal temps to as little a 1,000 for
extreme cases over heating. .

If you're going to replace the transmission solenoid pack ...look on E-bay, I ordered one from someone in CA I think, for $80 and it came with both input and output sensors. It was a brand new Borg Warner unit. I thnk the dealer was close to $240 for just the module. FYI these packs are often a source of ATF-4 fluid leaks


Spit

Cntrysthbst
09-10-2008, 10:09 PM
Had simular problems but in an 01 and found it to be the ground coming apart from where it was bolted to the transmission by the starter. That ground going bad cost me a PCM and transmission. Might want to check the wiring to the starter cause the dealer said I had some issues there too, think it was the positive wire corroding and shorting.

Robertmchenry
09-11-2008, 03:50 PM
I had my Voyager go into Limp mode. Thought the tranny was toast but all it was is a relay in the fuse panel under the hood. I took it to Ammco who wanted to "test it". They told me an electrical problem. I took it home w/o further tests. Then I noticed that the clutch pack solenoids did not make the normal noise when I put it in gear. Found a bad relay & all eas back to normal!
Gee, what would have happened If I left it at Ammco transmissions?

bethanyam
09-11-2008, 04:11 PM
I had my Voyager go into Limp mode. Thought the tranny was toast but all it was is a relay in the fuse panel under the hood. I took it to Ammco who wanted to "test it". They told me an electrical problem. I took it home w/o further tests. Then I noticed that the clutch pack solenoids did not make the normal noise when I put it in gear. Found a bad relay & all eas back to normal!
Gee, what would have happened If I left it at Ammco transmissions?

Tell me about it. That's why I am avoiding going to a garage. There are only 2 in my area and when I called, both immediatly started talking about a new/rebuilt transmission. Ugh. I just can't stand it. My husband has worked late all week, but weather permitting we are going to be checking all the new things people have added here and that a mechanic guy he knows has told him. Hopefully I can post good news sooon, but I won't hold my breath :uhoh:. Thank you all again for all of your help and any more advice or ideas of things to check over the weekend will still be appreciated. :biggrin: by me anyway. I don't know about my husband :iceslolan. Thanks again guys.
Bethany

bethanyam
09-13-2008, 07:44 PM
Ok I got another question for you guys. I bought a new TCM hubby put it on, put everything back together, started to drive it and when he turned it on fluid went everywhere. It is leaking from the solenoid pack. The gasket it broken and need replacing. Well I guess what I need to know is, is this a dealer part? Can I even buy this part alone? When I called advaced auto (the only parts store in my town open on weekends) They acted like I was crazy and had no idea what I was talking about. They were trying to sell me O-rings. I told them that I DID NOT NEED o-rings I needed a "felt" gasket. Well then they told me that I'd just have to call the dealer because they didn't sell anything like that. Ugh. IS this a dealer part or no? Am I calling it the wrong thing???? Also can I "make" a gasket for this? Thanks for any help.
Bethany

Robertmchenry
09-15-2008, 07:39 AM
Ok I got another question for you guys. I bought a new TCM hubby put it on, put everything back together, started to drive it and when he turned it on fluid went everywhere. It is leaking from the solenoid pack. The gasket it broken and need replacing. Well I guess what I need to know is, is this a dealer part? Can I even buy this part alone? When I called advaced auto (the only parts store in my town open on weekends) They acted like I was crazy and had no idea what I was talking about. They were trying to sell me O-rings. I told them that I DID NOT NEED o-rings I needed a "felt" gasket. Well then they told me that I'd just have to call the dealer because they didn't sell anything like that. Ugh. IS this a dealer part or no? Am I calling it the wrong thing???? Also can I "make" a gasket for this? Thanks for any help.
Bethany

TCM ??

Mbriggs
09-15-2008, 09:07 AM
Solenoid gaskets are dealer only. Make sure the you get 2, one for each side of the mounting plate. Cost is less than $5 each.

bethanyam
09-15-2008, 02:54 PM
TCM ??
Transmission Control Module

bethanyam
09-15-2008, 03:04 PM
UPDATE -:crying: I'm soooo tired of this van I'm ready to kill it.:banghead: We replaced the TCM (transmission control module), replaced the gasket for the solenoid (thanks for the help by the way), and it is still doing the same thing won't shift out of 2nd. I had about decided just to take it somewhere, but called around and the only 2 shops here won't touch it without me pretty much agreeing up front to let them rebuild/put in a new tranny. I just can't afford that right now. Ugh. I just want to know what the problem is. My hubby and I can do most of the work ourselves. I don't know what else to try. We've replaced the fluid, gasket, filter, the input and output speed sensors, and the transmission control module. We have checked all fuses and relays, all wires and cables and can't find anything as it shouldn't be. The only other thing I can think of to replace is the solenoid pack, but really not sure if that would help at this point. I'm begining to think I'd be better off (and spend less) just to look for another vehicle, but dang this one just runs and drives soooo good that I hate to let it go. Thanks again for all you guys help. If I happen to run across any more info I will post. If anything else happens to come to your mind that I can possibly try, please let me know. I can afford parts and slave labor (hubby :smile:) far easier than I can afford a garage at this point.
Thanks a bunch.
Bethany:banghead:

bethanyam
09-15-2008, 08:15 PM
Ok new symptom, not sure if it is contributing to the problem or not. Went to crank van to move it. Would not crank. Seemed like battery dead. When hubby got home we went to jump start, but it started on it's on. Moved van, just a few feet. Turned van off, took OUT key. Clicking and Door ajar sounds went crazy. The clicking was like the sound you hear when your battery is dead and clicks, but non-stop. Hubby pulled Relay #13 (not sure what other numbers that you might need to know) noise stopped. He tried to decipher the panel box to figure out which fuse/relay goes to what but the display does NOT match. Does anyone know where I can find a matching display? It just seems the more we get into the the more it goes to electrical. Any additional suggestions? Thanks a bunch.
Bethany

bethanyam
09-21-2008, 08:19 PM
Ok. 3 weeks and a couple of hundred bucks poorer...I'm happy to report I think we've fixed it. Put last of everything back together. When we first drove it, it shifted VERY hard. We tried to be very easy with it and it did up and downshift through EVERY gear. When warm we checked the fluid it was a little over full (due to a problem of the solenoid gasket leak and we added more) but we drained out about a quart and 1/2. Drove it again starting and stopping and everything things seems to be ok. We checked the fluid again and all seems well. My husband and I think that the output speed sensor started the trouble and when we replaced it the brittle wires broke without us knowing it and caused some of the other things along with the bad battery and cables. Not sure what was going on with the battery but when we got to looking it looked like it had been boiling over and had burned a spot on the "felt" type stuff on the inside of the hood. But any way I just wanted to say THANK YOU TO EVERYONE HERE. I would have never been able to figure any of this stuff out without ya'll and I really appreciate it. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=922065) I'm cross posting this to my other thread about the fuse/relays, which is the link above. Again thanks soooo much to you all.
Beth

RIP
09-22-2008, 12:39 AM
:cheers:

iamsis
03-20-2009, 01:20 PM
I have a 1998 Plymouth voyager. 3.3L engine. with a 4 speed transmission.
I have NEVER had any trouble with the transmission.
Saturday - Kept going into "limp mode" about 1 mile from home
Immediatly changed fluid, gasket, screen, ect. (used atf not mercon or whatever it's call) Hubby drove about 5 miles No problems.
Sunday - I drove 15 miles and went into limp mode again. This time the speedometer was flopping all around. Would go to 100 then to 30 then to 0 and back to 100.
I took the van home and parked it.
Wednesday - We put in a new output speed sensor. the only difference is now the speedometer does NOT work at all.
Thursday - put in a new input speed sensor. NO change.
I'm going to carefully and slowly drive to parts store to have it scanned today. The local garage wants $60.00 just to scan it. I just don't have the funds to go there right now and I don't really have the money to keep playing a guessing game either. According to the readout I get today does anyone have any ideas on what could possibly cause this? There is no hesitation, jerking, ect when going into park, reverse, or drive it just does not change out of second gear when you speed up. Other than replacing or rebuilding the transmission the only other things I can think of that might cause this is the transmission control solenoid or the transmission control module. One more question. DOes the computer have to be reset after adding the sensors to "pick" them up? THANK YOU TO ANY AND ALL ANSWERS.
Bethany
***********************************
I own a 1993 Plymouth Voyager LE. Same thing happened to me. My transmission would not change out of 2nd. gear. Thought the transmission was shot. Also, a $3500.00. I could not afford that. A friend took my van to a friend of hers. In 15 mins. he had it fixed. Hopefully yours will be the same!!! On the firewall at back of your motor, is some relays. You have a transmission relay, and a horn relay. They are the very same thing this transmission expert (that fixed mine told me). About 15.00 or so and it is fixed. Until you can get one, have someone or yourself pull out the tranmission, and horn relay and switch them. I still have not gotten a new one, mine still works fine the way he changed them around. My horn still works off the transmission relay that did not have enough power to work the transmission, but has enough left to work the horn. Don't let someone screw you over on this one. Switch those two relays, if like mine your transmission will change out no problems.......Hope this works for yours.I was so pleased with the information, and I am very angry that the transmission place even getting the codes off my van said it was the transmission that was bad. Mine has run fine since he switched the relays. He even told me to call the Plymouth place, and ask them the price on a transmission relay, then wait a day then call back and ask price on a horn relay. The transmission relay, 45.00, the horn was 10.00 best I recall. Very same part..........I really hope this info. will help your problem. I don't like seeing someone get ripped off. iamsis... You can contact me at my home email if you wish, I can take pic's of where they are located and email them to you to see if that is the problem 1st. before spending money you don't have. iamsis1954@bellsouth.net

iamsis
03-20-2009, 01:29 PM
I own a 1993 Plymouth Voyager LE. Same thing happened to me. My transmission would not change out of 2nd. gear. Thought the transmission was shot. Also, a $3500.00. I could not afford that. A friend took my van to a friend of hers. In 15 mins. he had it fixed. Hopefully yours will be the same!!! On the firewall at back of your motor, is some relays. You have a transmission relay, and a horn relay. They are the very same thing this transmission expert (that fixed mine told me). About 15.00 or so and it is fixed. Until you can get one, have someone or yourself pull out the tranmission, and horn relay and switch them. I still have not gotten a new one, mine still works fine the way he changed them around. My horn still works off the transmission relay that did not have enough power to work the transmission, but has enough left to work the horn. Don't let someone screw you over on this one. Switch those two relays, if like mine your transmission will change out no problems.......Hope this works for yours.I was so pleased with the information, and I am very angry that the transmission place even getting the codes off my van said it was the transmission that was bad. Mine has run fine since he switched the relays. He even told me to call the Plymouth place, and ask them the price on a transmission relay, then wait a day then call back and ask price on a horn relay. The transmission relay, 45.00, the horn was 10.00 best I recall. Very same part..........I really hope this info. will help your problem. I don't like seeing someone get ripped off. iamsis... You can contact me at my home email if you wish, I can take pic's of where they are located and email them to you to see if that is the problem 1st. before spending money you don't have. iamsis1954@bellsouth.net (iamsis1954@bellsouth.net)
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allenprimo913
03-20-2009, 06:29 PM
hello,

i cant think of anymore remedy to fix my 1998 ply voyager about the transmission jerking when it shift to 3rd gear and then jerks when you slow down.

i just got done draining all the tranny fluid and replaced the filter one more time but still does it

BUT HERES WHAT I HAVE BEEN NOTICING LATELY.

everytime i park the car for a while like an hr or all night then use it when its cold ? it does NOT do it, i mean it does not DO not until i ran for few miles like maybe 5 miles or so then it will do the jerking when shifting to 3rd then slowing down.

i come to assume that maybe when the tranny fluid heats up, then it does it.

i need help on checking the connectors for the input and output sensors, i replaced then a week ago but i did not check them. what would i be looking if i stick my meter on those connector?

help.. we are planning to go out of town wednesday.

thnks

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