Wiper and heater motors work sometime

Here what is happening on a 93 escort wagon. The wiper and heater blower motors quits working when car is running for anywhere from 1 to 5 minuets. Then they start back up. When key is in lock Position the wipers and heater blower will turn on and off without the key being on. There is another problem with the car having no electrical power if it is switched off for a short time and you come back and try to start it. I think the second problem is with the ground because if you shake the ground cable sometime the car will start. another thing when the car will not start the transmission will not allow you to shift into neutral and all power is dead.
:runaround:

Hi, welcome to the forum. That all sounds like a faulty ignition switch to me. You could clean up the battery terminals and connectors, and clean the ground leads where they run from the battery negative terminal to the engine and body, but I think you'd still be in the same position because bad connections wouldn't explain why the wiper and blower motors are able to run with the ignition switched off.

You could check around the steering column for any damaged / frayed wiring which might be short-circuiting but I reckon you'll probably end up having to replace the switch, which if it's the original then it wouldn't be too surprising if it's failed after fifteen years.

I'm not really familiar with the shift interlock so I don't know if there's a clue in there or not, but I reckon the rest of it all points towards a faulty ignition switch.

Is that the 1.8 or the 1.9? There are differences in the wiring between the two models and I'd like to try to find a wiring diagram for it because I was just reading this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=492745) old thread where the wipers and blower motor were able to run with the ignition switched off, and even with the ignition switch unplugged, on a '93.

It is a 1.9. I will not see the car again untill next weekend. But today my girlfriend who owns the car said it was dead with nothing working when she went to the vets to check on her dog. She was only their for about 5 min. She opened the hood and moved the negative cable around the Key started dinging and it started. These problems started about a year ago. since then the starter, Alt, and the negative battery connection has been replaced along with the 1 of the relays on the firewall. Thanks for the advice about checking the switch.

Ok thanks. Now that I know (from reading that old thread) that it's possible for the wipers and blower motor to run even with the ignition switch unplugged, and as today's no-power problem appears to have been directly related to the battery negative cable, I'm not so sure that the ignition switch is likely to be the culprit. I'll look for a wiring diagram, and I'll get back to you before the weekend.

Thanks

I'd look first at the connections to the battery negative terminal. Forum member denisond3 also has an early model - the '92, and he's told us many times that bad connections at the negative terminal can cause strange electrical problems. I'd remove the connections - there should be several - and clean the mating surfaces thoroughly with a wire brush or emery paper, and smear them with a protective coating of petroleum jelly or dielectric grease prior to reassembly. Not just at the terminal though - I'd also follow them to the far end and give those connections the same treatment. One heavy lead will bolt to the engine block, a fairly heavy lead will probably bolt to the firewall or fender, and there should be several smaller ones - clean them all and apply a protective coating to both ends if possible. I'd also do the same for the battery positive terminal connection. Also while you're doing that, check the copper conductors in each wire if possible, to see if water has got beneath the insulation, which would cause them to corrode.

When you move the battery negative lead and it brings the electrical circuits back to life, it's possible that it isn't the negative lead itself which is actually the problem, so try moving the lead and see if it causes anything else in the vicinity to move, or if it rubs against anything and if so then check that those items are properly secured.

It would also be worthwhile to look inside the engine compartment fuse panel and ensure that all fuses and relays are firmly seated. I would think that if moving the cable brings the circuits back to life then you have a good chance of spotting the problem just by careful observation.

As for the problem with the wipers and blower motor running with the ignition switched off, I'd read this old thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=492745) which I mentioned earlier and check to see if you have the same problem - the wipers and blower motor were picking up power from the interior lighting circuit, due to burnt insulation in a section of the wiring harness which was originally caused by a short-circuit at the flexible conduit which carries the wires from body to rear hatch.

A quick way to check if your problem has a similar cause would be to remove the 'Room' fuse, which is located in the interior fuse panel. Amongst other things, that feeds the courtesy lights circuit, so if that's where the wipers and blower are getting power from when the ignition is switched off (even though they're not supposed to) then removing the fuse would stop them from working, and confirm the presence of a short-circuit. You can only do that for test purposes though, because you need that fuse to be fitted in order for the car to run, because it also feeds some of the engine's electronic control circuits.

I'd leave that until later though and start with the problem in the area of the battery negative lead. Also, at this point I don't think there would be anything to be gained by replacing the ignition switch, because I doubt that it's causing any of your problems.

Thanks,
Give me about a week to check all this and I will get back to you as to the results. Fun Fun here we go.

Selectron, . Thanks for all the suggestions and help. So here is what I found and repaired so far. Your original suggestion about the switch was correct. Found one at pull a parts and saved a bunch. I replaced it and the wipers and heater began working the way they are suppose to. Also found out if the room fuse is removed the car will not allow you to shift out of park so that if the power is dead you cannot put the car in neutral.

However, I am still having the problem with no electrical power if it is switched off for a short time and you come back and try to start it. This time moving the negative cable had no effect on it. After a while and switching the key on and off a few times the power returned and you are able to start the car. any suggestions on this one. This dose not happen but maybe every 1 in 5 short stops and never when the car sets an hour or two.

Wipers and heater fixed eh; that's good. To track down the source of the no-power problem, I'd suggest that you concentrate on the Room fuse. I don't believe that the fuse itself is under suspicion, but when the power disappears, we know that the Room fuse does not receive power, and we know that because your shift interlock goes dead (can't shift into neutral) and also your warning chime goes dead. They're both fed from the Room fuse, so it's a good place to start.

The electrical path from battery to Room fuse is fairly straightforward - from battery positive connector via heavy cable which enters the engine compartment fuse box (ECFB) on connector C116 - to Main fuse (100A, in ECFB) - to BTN fuse (40A, also in ECFB) - exiting the fuse box on connector C109 - then a white/red wire to splice point S153 - then a white/red wire which enters the Interior Fuse Panel on connector C240, and from there an internal conductor within the fuse box feeds the Room fuse (that's all on the wiring diagrams below).

You have easy access to three test points there - the Main fuse, BTN fuse, and Room fuse. Next time the power goes dead, I'd do a quick voltage check to see at which point the voltage goes missing. It will almost certainly be missing at the Room fuse so I'd head straight for the Main and BTN fuses, under the hood. Either a 12V test lamp or a multimeter set to its DC voltage range would be needed for that. If you don't have either but intend to buy one then a multimeter is by far the best choice because they're so versatile, and so cheap nowadays.

I suspect the problem is a very slight layer of corrosion - just a thin film of oxidisation - on a connector or on a fuse. That will be a resistive layer, and when current passes through the resistive layer it will heat up and expand slightly. When it's in its expanded state it isn't making good contact, hence the voltage goes missing only when it's still hot - after a short stop. When the vehicle is parked for a longer period of time, it cools down and contracts and makes a good contact once again, so the problem doesn't happen at those times. I can't be certain, but I think that's what's happening.

What you could do is to disconnect the battery negative cable, and then remove the Main and BTN fuses and clean the fuse contacts with fine emery paper or similar, also inspect the sockets which they fit into, for signs of corrosion and overheating.

If the fuse contacts turn out to be good, then connectors C116, C109, and C240 would be the next suspects. The first two will plug into the engine compartment fuse panel, and the latter will plug into the interior fuse panel.

One other scenario is that when the power disappears, you check for voltage and find that you do indeed have voltage at all three fuses, in which case that would indicate a bad ground connection. The warning chime module and shift interlock use different ground points so it won't be a local ground problem, but a bad connection at the main ground from body to battery negative terminal could cause that symptom.

Here's a quote from Denisond3, posting in another thread about the grounds on his '92:
If your 92 Escort is like mine - it has several wires that are connected to the negative post on the battery. Not only the main ground wire to the engine, but the body ground, the ground for the PCM and other things - all come to a strange little fitting on the negative post. Mine was cracked & giving me trouble, so I got a new ground cable, ran it from the neg. post of the battery to the body bolt close to the battery (on the firewall sort of) and soldered the other wires to that same location. I also ran the original ground wire that connected to the battery to that point and soldered it on too.
So you might want to check and see if you have a similar ground arrangement (sounds like a small junction box), and take a closer look at it.

The path from battery positive terminal to room fuse spans two wiring diagrams, and I've highlighted the path of interest - the BTN fuse is shown twice, so just ignore it on the second diagram and pick up the path after splice point S153. These diagrams are for the '95 1.9 but I believe the circuit for the three fuses is identical to your '93. Let me know if you don't follow any of that.

Path from battery to Room fuse - diagram 1 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-1-9-power-distribution-01.png)
Path from battery to Room fuse - diagram 2 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/95-1-9-power-distribution-02.png)

I had the same problem with my 94 1.9 several years back. From time to time the power would be dead and wiggling the negative cable would get it to come back on.
I never figured out exactly why it was happening, but when I finally got tired of wiggling the cable I just decided to replace the battery since it was getting old anyway. Ever since I replaced the battery I never had the problem again.
As for the wipers/heater cutting in and out, I agree that it sounds like an ignition problem, but would focus on the no power problem first.
If the battery is old... consider replacing it and clean up the connections.