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94 T&C 3.8L Wont Start


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goad
08-19-2008, 06:20 PM
I left the store and got in my van and it wouldn’t start right away. Eventually it started. Went back to the store and driving down the road it just stops. I put in Neutral and eventually again it started.
Went home, got back in to go to work and again it wont start this time I was unable to start it.

It turns over just fine but it acts like it is not getting fuel, or no spark?
About 10K miles (or less) I had to get a new fuel pump put in.
I can hear the pump engage when I turn on the key.

Does this year/model have a timing belt? Could this be it?
Fuel pump?

What can I check to see what the possible problem might be?

Thanks for your help....

Ken

RIP
08-19-2008, 06:28 PM
You have a timing chain. First move is to check for fault codes using the key dance. Cycle the key from off to on X3 leaving it on (not start). Now count the flashes of the check engine light. All codes have two digits. Each digit is seperated by a pause. Multiple codes are seperated by a longer pause. For example code 21 would be flash, flash, pause, flash. Should finish with a code 55. Once you have the codes if any, come on back.

This could be several things but, it sure sounds like a classic cam or crank sensor failure. If one fails you will lose fuel and spark. If you check for both and find both missing, it's an indication of a sensor failure. When they fail they often don't generate a fault code.

goad
08-19-2008, 06:41 PM
Thanks for the quick response.
I will have to check the codes tomorrow (I am at work, van is at home).
But, How do I check those sensors?

Ken

RIP
08-19-2008, 06:54 PM
To completely check them you need an ocilloscope. You can check the supply voltage to them from the PCM using an ordinary volt meter. You'll pay $30-$50 at the dealer for these. Non OEM sensors can be had for $15-$30 elswhere. I recommend the OEM type.

This is for a newer van but, I'd bet yours would be close: http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c1528003c4f6 Click the pictures to blow them up. Select both sensors from the top right column. If you have a distributor the cam sensor may be there.

goad
08-19-2008, 07:12 PM
Thanks again for your response.
I'll do what I can and I'll let you know what I find.

Ken

MrDonovan
08-20-2008, 12:05 AM
I am experiencing a very simalar problem. My problem started with the engine stalling at 20-25 mph, but I was able to immediately restart. About 15 min later the engine stalled again. The engine would crank but no ignition. Checked fuses & etc. Tried to start 15 minutes later and was successful. Drove 1/2 mile, stalled again. No luck re-starting this time. Towed home to troubleshoot (T/S). Found no codes using ignition OFF-ON x3. I do have an unusual flashing "dot" just above the odometer reading (digital dash) which flashes about every 1 second. I also noticed the fuel pump was not running. T/S fuel pump fuse & relay and found, fuse OK, relay OK, removed cover from Fuel Pump Relay to manually close and pump runs. Unplugged relay and did VOM check and found battery power & Ignition Switch power to relay OK. I think it is missing the signal ground. I have a Haynes repair manual and it does not include electrical diagram for fuel pump so I am T/S in the dark. I did notice on another diagram, for the "Fuel Injection & Ignition" system, a reference to "Auto Shut Down" relay but without the full diagram I can't understand the interconnect. HELP!!!

Any further T/S ideas? What is the flashing dot?

goad
08-20-2008, 04:34 PM
Ok, here are the codes that I got off of my T/C Van:
12
32
32
21
21
55
I did manage to locate the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor, I pulled it out and saw that a corner of the end that goes to the crank was chewed up. So I went to the local Autozone picked up a new one (Duralast brand) for $38 and installed it. Fired right up. Drove it around the neighborhood and then pulled into the drive and it died. I was able to restart a couple of more times but it would choke and then die. Now I am unable to start again...
I did notice that when I put the new one in, it was not a tight fit...slid in too easily.
Anyway...back to square one.........

Do these codes mean anything to you??

I am unsure where the stupid Camshaft sensor is.........
Ken

MrDonovan
08-20-2008, 08:20 PM
Hey Mr goad,
I found in my Hayes manual the descriptions for your codes.
12 = number of "Key-Ons" since last fault (I'm puzzled!?!)
32 = EGR solenoid circuit open or failed
21 = Oxygen sensor open or shorted to voltage

I hope that helps you. I'm still troubleshooting. I suspect my canshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor.

MrDonovan
08-20-2008, 08:44 PM
Ken,
I read my Hayes manual for location of the camshaft sensor & crankshaft sensor & found them. OK, here goes.
Camshaft sensor: book says "mounted on top of the timing chain cover." I found behind upper engine mount (rt side) & under thermostat housing.
Crankshaft sensor: book says "mounted on the transaxle bellhousing." I found on bellhousing almost directly straight down from throttle body.

Good luck!!!

goad
08-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Thanks!!
I will be looking at working on it all again in the morning............

Ken

RIP
08-21-2008, 04:06 AM
You might want to remove and inspect the crank sensor again. It takes it's readings off the flex plate extension. If that is cracked or warped it will strike and damage the crank sensor. When you installed the sensor you left the paper spacer on the tip I hope. The paper is there to provide the correct spacing between the tip and the plate. Look for the cam sensor on the timing chain cover.

I can't see either the 21 or 32 codes causing your problem on their own but, could be the two combined are. I would reset the codes by disconnecting the battery for 2-3 minutes and see if they come back. The O2 sensor is located on the exhaust manifold behind the engine. The EGR valve and solenoid are located on the top aft of the engine. If you can get it running let it warm up then bump the throttle above 2000 rpm. The shaft on the egr valve should move.

goad
08-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Thanks for your reply.
I did pull the sensor again, and when I pulled it the spacer was not on it...so now it is a crap shoot to put back in.
I am about to give up and dump the van....go get another "beater" to get back and forth from work...at least one that starts.

Ken

goad
08-21-2008, 04:42 PM
Thanks for your reply.
I did pull the sensor again, and when I pulled it the spacer was not on it...so now it is a crap shoot to put back in.
I am about to give up and dump the van....go get another "beater" to get back and forth from work...at least one that starts.

Ken

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