CRX dies after starting, and it stinks like gas :-(

:frown:
First off, I have an 89 CRX Si with DOHC ZC swap.

My problem has to do with the engine dying after starting. At first it takes at least 2 tries to get it started, and once it finally gets going, the revs kick up to about 2000 rpm (to warm up), sputters a few seconds, the revs drop, then it dies. If I give it more throttle, it tries to stay running, but then will eventually die once the revs go down. If I keep my foot on the gas to keep the revs up, I can see the revs gradually drop down, even though my foot is on the gas.

I dont know if this is related, but sometimes the tachometer doesnt work, and the check engine light doesnt come one when you first turn the key ( I know all the dash indicator lights should come on when you first turn the key).

These are the things I have already replaced, or fixed.
-Main relay
-Fuel pump (it was dead)
-Adjusted the timing (it was retarted)
-Fixed leaking vacuum hose connected to intake manifold and throttle body
-Checked spark plug condition (seem to be ok)

Its hard to check to see if I'm getting good spark because the engine wont keep running that long. I did at one point get it to stay running, but it was rough, smelly (like gasoline), and I didnt want to pass out in the garage! And yes, the garage door is open with the tail pipe facing out!

Any suggestions as to what may be causing this? I was thinking maybe the ignition control module. I know its getting fuel, because I hear the pump working and it smells like the engine may be running a bit rich.

coolant temp sensor? , MAP sensor?

Well I finally got it to run long enough for me to work on it last night, and I finally got it to throw me a code. The computer seems to be code 1, which is the Oxygen Sensor. I checked the voltage coming from it like the manual said, and the voltage readings from the sensor is low.

Does this make sense as to why it doesnt want to run while warming up, and does this account for why its running so rich? :uhoh:

Cause the manual also said to check the fuel pressure regulator. I didnt have a gauge to check the pressure when I took the vacuum hose off, but I did notice that once I took it off, the engine started to rev high on its own. So I guess that means its good, because the manual said the pressure should start to go high once you take vacuum hose off.

Intake manifold gaskets maybe, or possibly leaking fuel injectors, did you check to see if the timing
belt is on ---- I bet you need a new timing belt

The engine is really running rough and rich, but the timing is dead on! I got to check the spark to, and it is not that. I can pull the spark plug wires while the engine is running and hold the tip to a metal object, and the spark is a nice blue purple color, which means I'm getting good spark. I guess I can check the voltage readings from the coolant temp sensor when I get home.

I changed the PCV valve yesterday too. It worked fine, but smelled like gasoline :uhoh: . Is that normal for an old PCV valve?

i'm tellin you, check you coolant temp sensor.

Ok, I will check that today, i didnt have time yesterday.

Can you tell me where that sensor is located?

I just realised that everyone posting in this thread is a newb... that's funny.

Dude... check/clean the IACV.. it's the wierd thing on the back of the intake on the D-side that has two coolant lines running to it.

Unbolt it, spray the shit out of it with carb cleaner until the fluid starts coming out clean, no black shit, then put it back on.

After that's done, adjust your idle, following book procedures.

Remove hazard fuse for 30 seconds, reinsert and start car... let run long enough to check for codes...

Oh, and yes, O2 with funny readings will cause fuel trims to go nuts, could explain the rich smell.

sorry for being "newb", i won't post anymore, leave it to proclaiming pros

nah, nothing meant by that, just usually there's a few regs posting up idea's too, just seems not so many lately.

I happened to notice and it amused me slightly.

Well if you smell raw fuel, I could go so far as to suggest a broken fuel line. did you replace the fuel filter when you did the pump?

ah... the simple things... a broken/cracked fuel line would also explain rough idle and the engine not wanting to run, due to less fuel pressure in the system.

Easiest way to check is, once again, check your fuel pressure... it doesn't even have to be running... just put an inline gauge in, turn the key on so the pump primes, and check it when it shuts off, then wait about 20 seconds and check it again.... it should be the same pressure, or close to it.

Intake manifold gaskets maybe, or possibly leaking fuel injectors, did you check to see if the timing
belt is on ---- I bet you need a new timing belt

By the way, if the timing belt wasn't "on" as in, connected, the engine wouldn't start at all... if it's not "on" as in, the timing is incorrect, it could only be one tooth off at the cam (1/2 tooth at the crank) to start at all... else it wouldn't start or run.

Stretched timing belt would do the same thing... so check the tensioner and the belt deflection.

Highly unlikely, but still plausible.

Ok, I will check that today, i didnt have time yesterday.

Can you tell me where that sensor is located?

it is located under the distributer, its a two wire sensor, you should be able to get a socket right over the plug-in.

deep well socket... or at least medium well.. a normal socket will fit with patience, but one wrong move, and you've screwed the sensor.

and another thing.. you might be able to get easier access to it using a combination wrench, since the dizzy is in the way for direct access w/ a socket, and still having a good line of sight.

All you actually have to do to take it out is loosen it w/ a wrench of some sort, then unscrew it by hand... when you put it back in, clean the threads thoroughly, and apply some silicone RTV sealant to the threads of the sensor, then put it back and torque it accordingly. (1/2 turn past "snug")

Well if you smell raw fuel, I could go so far as to suggest a broken fuel line. did you replace the fuel filter when you did the pump?

Well, I didnt replace the fuel filter when I replaced the pump. I have a new one, but I'm an idiot and havent put it in yet! I checked for leaks, but I havent found any.

I didnt get a chance to mess with temp sensor yet (wasnt lucky enough to keep the car running till warmup), but I did get to do a few other simple things. I smelled the oil from the dipstick (I read that somewhere...) and it smelled like gasoline!

An oil change is an inexspensive thing to do, so I will do that. Maybe I will be lucky enough to have it stay running today.

If you can do a compression check..who knows, you could have horrible rings and your are getting fuel in the oil. BUT CHANGE THAT FILTER.

After stirring up the tank you have god knows what running into the filter.

definitely true, although many take this belief way too far... first off, to avoid misconception, your fuel system is essentially sealed.. if you care for your vehicle even somewhat properly, the only dirt in it will be whatever comes through the three (yes, THREE) filters on the pump that you get your fuel from.

Secondly, inside your tank, there is a "large particle sock" which slips over your fuel pump... keep in mind, the tolerances the fuel pump maintains won't allow anything larger than the thickness of a hair (less in some cases) to pass through it w/o damaging something.

third, you have a inline fuel filter (the one you should change) that filters down to a VERY acceptable level for a stock car...

So, all in all, should you change it? Most likely, being that it's 20 years old, one would assume (unless you have records that say otherwise...) Do you have to worry about crap in your filter from just this one time of running your tank dry? Shit NO!

If you don't believe me, drain your tank once, drop it, and inspect inside via the hole the fuel pump sits in... oh yeah.. see all that dirt in there? NO!..

But, still, change the filter, since it's old as fsck, and needs to be replaced anyway.. Did you ever think that while you're replacing all these parts that are bad or worn, you could have been spending only slightly more to replace them with performance parts?

Just a hint... now is usually the time to do it.

I would almost bet you have a fried ignitor, or module. The tach issue, along with the fact that you stepping on the gas kills it are a dead give-away.

Very well possible as well, so there's a couple more things to check... you can check the internal coil and ignitor assy with an Ohmmeter... the service manual will tell you what points to test, and what the specific resistance should be for each test.

I would almost bet you have a fried ignitor, or module. The tach issue, along with the fact that you stepping on the gas kills it are a dead give-away.

Sorry I havent gotten back to you guys about the problem.

I still cant keep the engine running long enough to check the coolant temp sensor (the manual says it has to warm up first). But I did change the oil and noticed it ran a lot smoother, and idled a bit better (for the 30 seconds it stays on!).

OK, so the ignitor and control module are next. I have spare parts, so I will install those soon.

If anyone is interested, I recorded my tachometer while I tried to keep it running, so I can e-mail it to anyone who would think it would help diagnose my problem.

Thanks again for the help guys.
I will let you know when I replace the ignition coil and control module.

To check the coolant temp sensor w/o warming up the engine - pull the plug off it after it's running.. your CEL might come on, when it does (if it does) leave it unplugged, shut off the car, and restart it... if it comes back on, put a pin between the two wires... this will close the circuit and should tell the ECU to put itself in "warm" or "run" mode.

Well, I'm back with no luck :banghead:

I got to check the coolant temp sensor as per the shop manual, and it passed with flying colors. I also checked the ignition coil and it also checked out ok.

Just to recap, I changed:
Changed PCV valve
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump (it was dead)
Oil and filter (smelled like it was contaminated with fuel)
Fuel (though that maybe it was also contaminated)
Changed the control module (I had a spare)
Checked resitance in spark plug wires
Checked rotor, cap, and plugs
Fixed leak on vacuum hose connected to fuel pressure regulator

Well, at least I can somewhat get it to idle without shutting off. But every time I step on the gas, the revs drop down, and it dies. I know its getting air because I can hear the vortex of air sucking into the engine everytime I step on the gas!

If I work the throttle a little bit I can get it to rev all the way to the redline. It almost seems like it runs better in the higher revs.

It still takes a few tries to get it to start, and it still smells like its running rich.

Any more ideas guys? I really need some help :(

Thanks again for all the input!

try flipping the outer two wires on the TPS... that sounds like something that happens when you do the MPFI swap and forget to change the TPS wires around... it will read backwards.

I havent messed with that before, but I will give anything a try at this point.

Also, shouldnt something like that throw a code? Thats the reason I havent messed with the injectors and stuff, cause if it is bad, then it should throw me a CEL code.

Should... might not always tho.

There is a specific range, and it's allowed to fall somewhat outside of that range before it actually causes a CEL... like O2 sensors, they can be bad for years before they throw a code, just by reading outside the accurate range only slightly.

In other words, at 6k, it could be actually sending a reading that's 4% off what's really in there.... that might not cause an O2 code, but it certainly will throw your performance off.

You should also test the TPS... first, test at idle throttle, then at WOT, then check to make sure the Ohms increase smoothly as you actuate the throttle by hand.

Hmmm.

Maybe I should change the O2 sensor after all. At one point, I got it to throw code 1, which is the O2 sensor. I reset it, and it never came back on :shakehead

I didnt think much of it, because I never though the O2 sensor had that much control over the fuel supply ( I though the coolant temp and MAP sensor were more important).

Could that be my problem? Can a bad O2 sensor be the cause of the hard starting, rough idle, and rev drop when stepping on the gas pedal?

I have run with absolutely no o2 sensors on both d and b series, obd0 and 1.
The obd0 ran ok without it. The obd1 ran..but was jerky and slow as balls.

Wow, thats not promising at all for fixing my problem!

not likely that it's THE end-all beat-all reason, but I'm sure it could help.

I, too, have run with bad O2's before, and just putting a plug where it goes in the header, taking it out completely... did nothing to my OBD-0 car, but I did get slightly BETTER fuel mileage afterward.

Well, I guess the last thing I can do is buy a pressure gauge and check the fuel pressure in the lines. I guess I could have a bad fuel pressure regulator.

I will also check the fuel injectors.

Well, the fuel pressure regulator is good, and the fuel injectors pass all the test in the manual. Maybe the injectors are mechanically bad?

If one is leaking or stuck, it may still pass the voltage test, but will not operate correctly.

What do you guys think?

Nope, if it's stuck open, it will not pass a voltage test.

All an injector is, is a valve. As positive voltage hits it, it charges a coil, and it opens... when the voltage is shut off, it closes. The specific impedance will change during this period, meaning that at least one of the voltage tests will fail.

So, if they pass the voltage test, they're mechanically good, with the exception of leaking. Their internal baffling/valves may be cracked, seals could be broken, etc... in which case, you'd be running rich, but it wouldn't kill the car... blue smoke is all.

You mean Grey smoke. Blue would be oil.

yeah, that one lol... sorry.

White - water
Blue - Oil
Greyish, fume-like smoke - Fuel (unless it's diesel, then that's black too)
There are actually a few other colors too, but none of them pertain to stock cars, only when you put additives in the fuel.

Well scratch that idea!

This is killing me :banghead:! What would cause the revs to drop when I step on the gas pedal?! If the throttle opens, more air gets sucked it, and so in turn more fuel should be added and ignited. But in my case, thats not happening. The revs drop the second more air gets sucked in the engine, then it looses power and dies.

When the car is running, the fuel pump pumps fuel at a constant flow, right? It doesnt change at any point when the engine is running, right?

Also, how come when I take the vacuum hose off of the fuel pressure regulator, the car revs up on it own, smoothly? But when I step on the gas pedal, I cant get it to rev up smoothly for anything?!

I know the pressure is supposed to go up when removing the hose from the regulator, but shouldnt the revs drop in the same way like when I step on the gas pedal? I mean, its the same thing right?

-I step on the pedal, the engine gets more air, more fuel goes in and gets ignited.

-I pull the hose from the fuel pressure regulator, the pressure goes up, more fuel gets burned, etc.

Why dont I get the same result, when I'm technically doing the same thing?

Man, I'm driving myself crazy :runaround:

I'm still thinking you should test or replace the TPS.

Or at least flip the plug around and kinda stuff it on there... even just disconnect it... it will still run, but in "limp" mode... CEL comes on, ECU switches over to basic fuel/ignition maps, and it may not rev over 3k.

IIRC, this is also called "closed loop".

other than that... I'm totally busted for now... can't think of shit else... so do the thing w/ the TPS, let us know how that goes, and we'll try to think of something from there.

Ok, that seems simple enough. I will try that later on today.
Thanks for the help bro.

Damn I hope this works! I hate going to the mechanic! They rob you blind!:frown:

Well, no such luck on the TPS check.

I'm all out of options now. :banghead:

I might go through all the vacuum hoses again just to make sure I'm losing vacuum anywhere.

:frown:
First off, I have an 89 CRX Si with DOHC ZC swap.

My problem has to do with the engine dying after starting. At first it takes at least 2 tries to get it started, and once it finally gets going, the revs kick up to about 2000 rpm (to warm up), sputters a few seconds, the revs drop, then it dies. If I give it more throttle, it tries to stay running, but then will eventually die once the revs go down. If I keep my foot on the gas to keep the revs up, I can see the revs gradually drop down, even though my foot is on the gas.

I dont know if this is related, but sometimes the tachometer doesnt work, and the check engine light doesnt come one when you first turn the key ( I know all the dash indicator lights should come on when you first turn the key).

These are the things I have already replaced, or fixed.
-Main relay
-Fuel pump (it was dead)
-Adjusted the timing (it was retarted)
-Fixed leaking vacuum hose connected to intake manifold and throttle body
-Checked spark plug condition (seem to be ok)

Its hard to check to see if I'm getting good spark because the engine wont keep running that long. I did at one point get it to stay running, but it was rough, smelly (like gasoline), and I didnt want to pass out in the garage! And yes, the garage door is open with the tail pipe facing out!

Any suggestions as to what may be causing this? I was thinking maybe the ignition control module. I know its getting fuel, because I hear the pump working and it smells like the engine may be running a bit rich.
Change the ignitor and the "coil" in the dizzy... or just swap for another dizzy... you can swap for any other OBD-0 dizz, cuz you're not going to actually run it, you're just checking to see if the coil/ignitor are working properly... they might test out good, and iirc, you tested them already, but still could be losing it while running, which is a time that you can't test them, for obvious reasons. The coil is essentially a giant capacitor, it takes 12v-17vdc, ramps it up through coils several times, and turns it into 32k-45kvdc, then throws it ALL out at once to create the spark. If it has a "leak" it could be buliding up correctly for a few seconds, which could be over 1000 cycles to a coil, then starting to lose it's charge ability as it warms up.

Worth checking out.

Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even put it past being bad gas... drain the tank, put a couple gallons of new gas in there, see if it does anything better... if not, put the old gas back in, and you have a few more gallons than you started with in your non-running car...

And, just for kicks... remove the bolts that hold the catalytic convertor up to the manifold's downpipe, and let the cat hang the next time you start it up... this will ensure that there is no backpressure from the cat possibly being clogged up.

Also, if the CEL doesn't come on when you first put the key to the "on" position, either that bulb is blown, or the ECU isn't performing a Power On Self Test (POST from here out)

The purpose behind POST is the same as when you see all those wierd words and numbers when you first start older computers... and why you see the Dell logo or HP or Compaq or Gateway when you start newer computers... this is the computer's only opportunity to make sure that all of it's parts are there and able to function/respond to input before it's taken over by the user.

If the ECU isn't POST'ing, it's stuck on a ROM image that contains basic maps, won't allow a rev past 3k, and may not run the engine at all... you should swap the ECU out for a PM6 for a few mins to see if it runs any better, and see if the CEL comes on when you turn on the key.

Well, for one thing, I know I have an exhaust leak. I dont know if its after or before the cat (or the cat itself), but I can hear it sputtering under the car. I didnt think about the back pressure thing, but I will give that a try. The car IS 20 years old and has had the same cat this whole time.

As for the gas, I pretty much ran it to "E" then put over half a tank of fresh gas in it, and I saw no difference.

While messing around with it yesterday, I noticed the two sensors on the back firewall (my car orignialy had a 1.5L SOHC engine in it, but the model is an Si...hmmm). I know one is the MAP sensor and the other is either the dashpot solenoid valve (DSV) or the purge cut-off solenoid (PCS), I dont know. But the one on the right has one vacuum line going to the charcoal canister and another line that doesnt go anywhere, it just has a screw pluged into it (beats me as to how it got there). I know the MAP sensor is very important, so I made sure all the vacuum lines going to it were correct, but what about that other thing? Is it a DSV or PCS? And are they even important? :confused:

As for your other suggestions, I swapped out the ignition control module, but I couldnt get the coil out cause it has the screws in a very tight spot. If I take the dizzy off it would be easier to get to, but is there some special way of handling this? I know if I take it off, it has to go back on the exact way as when I took it off right?

Oh yeah,

As for the CEL, I do see it and all the other lights light up when I start the car. As for codes, if I keep it running long enough it will throw code 1 (O2 Sensor).

I remeber you said before that this probably wasnt the issue because in an OBD0 car its not THAT important and probably wouldnt cause this type of issue. Also I read that the O2 sensor only gives the computer information when its warm, so when I first start up the car, it shouldnt have any effect on the cars performance.

As far as putting the dizzy back on, you'll just have to take a chisel, and mark the top "leg" mounting point so that it will make a straight line across the leg onto the cam cap that it bolts to... that will allow you to line it back up when you put it back on the same way that it was taken off... won't matter, it's not hard to time if you can't get it exact, and you can only put it in one way, b/c of the drive system Honda used on it.

Your car originally had a D16A6 in it. 1.6 Liter, with MPFI. Unless it wasn't really an Si, which isn't easy to tell, except by translating the VIN.

You should see something like this: JHMED3 as the first 6 digits... the last three in that sequence tell you what model you have. (Those are mine, I have a Civic DX sedan.)

Then, you need to find the list that tells you what model designation code corresponds to which model... that will tell you if you actually have an Si or not...

As far as those sensors, I can't remember what sensors go where anymore, b/c I don't screw with them that much... they never really need to be messed with. A proper Vacuum diagram will tell you where that hose goes... if you look closely, there is a number on it... something like 17, or 11, or 6, etc... it will be marked every inch or so.

Get Haynes manual, or Helms, or Chiltons, they all have the vacuum designation diagram, that will tell you where on the stock engine that hose should go, and you'll have to figure it out from there... however, if it says that it's supposed to go somewhere on the intake, and there isn't an extra hose bib there, 1st, check that all the other lines ARE in there proper places, and fix accordingly, if everything else is kosher, find an old intake manifold, with a hose bib that fits your hose, and remove it... figure out what part of the intake your line should be in, drill it, put the bib on, seal it, and plug your hose in.

Very simple, I've had to do it several times on cars b/c I hate "trees"

You don't have to remove the intake manifold, but you should remove the throttle body while drilling, and get a vacuum cleaner w/ a hose that you can put into the TB flange back to where you're drilling, or close... don't use lube, or anything, keep it dry, and turn the vacuum cleaner on... that way you don't get shavings in your engine.

Well, I'm going to take your advice on the ignition coil. I'm going to replace even though it passed the voltage and resistance test. Just like you said, it seems that maybe its working, but it might not be working all the way when the engine is running.

As for the CEL. while it was in the garage, the CEL mostly lit up when when you first turn the key, but when I put it outside for a little while, I turned the key and no CEL :confused: (its supposed to come on for a few seconds)

I got the car to start, but no CEL light (at initial startup) and no working tachometer. It seems that those two thing always stop working together. Is the ignition coil somehow related to those two things (no tach and no inital CEL)?

The igniter is.. its what gives you your tach output. Its also in the distributor.

Coil builds up current, like a capacitor... ignitor opens the circuit so the built up charge can be released, lather, rinse, repeat 100 times per minute (at 6k RPM)

The ignitor has nothing to do with initial CEL tho... that, again, would either be main relay, or ECU... or a bad ground. I can't really think of any reason that the ignitor (or any dizz part) would cause the CEL to not come on.. maybe there is something, I'm just not thinking of it.

Coil builds up current, like a capacitor... ignitor opens the circuit so the built up charge can be released, lather, rinse, repeat 100 times per minute (at 6k RPM)

The ignitor has nothing to do with initial CEL tho... that, again, would either be main relay, or ECU... or a bad ground. I can't really think of any reason that the ignitor (or any dizz part) would cause the CEL to not come on.. maybe there is something, I'm just not thinking of it.

Well, I changed the ingition coil with a spare that I had, and no luck. I still get the same problem. :crying:

I never really caught it at first, but it seems to run better at start up (after like 4 tries!) It will still die if I let the revs drop, but I can somehow manage to rev it redline with no problems. Only in the low RPM range does it lose revs when I step on the gas. And if I hold the revs, say, above 4500 RPM's, it will stay steady for a few seconds, then the revs will drop and the engien will die.

Now If I keep it running and let the engine warm up a bit (right before i pass out from the exhaust fumes!) I cant get it to rev that high for the world! It will miss-fire a bit, and the revs will drop the second I put my foot on the gas. But get this! It will somewhat idle on its own. Not very well, but it will do it! What the hell is going on!? :confused:

I think my CRX is jealous that I drive my 2006 Civic to work eveyday instead!

Did you ever manage a compression test?

I havent yet, but if I had bad rings and such wouldnt it be blowing black smoke and burning oil? And if the head gasket was cracked, then I would really be burning radiator fluid, and I would get that white smoke.

Also, for shits and giggles, I unhooked the MAP sensor vacuum hose from the throttle (kept it plugged into the harness though), and for some reason it decided to run better! Sure, it threw a CEL (like I thought it would) and if I let my foot off the gas it would die. But if I kept the revs up at constant rate, it wouldnt die! I could even blip the throttle and it wouldnt die on me! What the hell :confused:

I didnt even think it would run without the MAP sensor, I know that the signal from this sensor to the computer is very imortant for fuel dilivery, so this doesnt make sense :screwy:

You could actually unplug all the sensors, and it would still start and run...

When you do so, you throw the ECU into "limp mode", also known as "open loop" operation.

This basically means that it will revert to a basic set of maps, using only what it knows about the original environment model, and not responding to "stimuli" from other sensors... there is more than one way to get it to run this way, but unplugging all the sensors is usually the easiest...

In fact, you should try that, and still, you should do a compression test... you won't always burn oil if you have bad rings, and you won't always run water through the engine if you have a cracked head or blown gasket.

Those are just indicators, they're not the end-all answer tho.

And still no quick reply....

Ok, I'll take your advice on the compression test issue. I've been wondering about that myself.

But back on topic about the MAP sensor thing. I see what your saying about the computer going into "limp" mode, and using a different set of values, but since it ran "somewhat" better without the MAP sensor, doesnt that mean the values it was getting when the sensor was in use is more worse than the values it getting when the sensor was unhooked?

Do you think I'm getting closer to solving the problem, or getting farther away?

Well, that was the point of removing all the sensors' input and testing the performance of the engine when in open loop mode.

If it still performs poorly or nothing much has changed, it's nothing to do with the sensors, and has everything to do with the engine itself.

Ok, gotcha.

Well, I will do that compression check asap. As for the MAP sensor, if it IS defective, then that kind of sucks. Because that damn sensor is pretty exspensive (over $200) :disappoin

So, if the compression in the cylinders checks out ok, then should I lean towards that dang MAP sensor as the issue?

Yep, pretty much, I wouldn't consider it the sole issue though... there are probably several others... it's going to be a process... trust me, you'll get very tired before you figure out exactly what was causing it, but it's the honda Love... either you stick it out, or you sell it to some other nitwit with more time than you... (me).

OH, BTW... you can swap that map sensor out with any standard 3-wire map sensor... it doesn't matter if it has 2 or 3 or 4 or even 10 bar capability, as you're only reading 2, and thats the least they come with.

If it has three wires, cut the pigtail off, and replace your stock end with it.

You can find them MUCH cheaper than $200... check eBay. Or, I might even have one laying around, or be able to get you one... it'll be from the bone yard that I work at tho, so I can't grantee, other than the car it comes from won't have had any codes or problems running.

Ok cool, thanks for the offer.

I got a compression tester today. I'm not sure I used it right, because I didnt know how long I needed to crank the motor over before reading the gauge. I cranked it over like 3 to 4 times (turned key to start for about 4 seconds) then read the gauge, and every cylinder seemed to have between 155 to 175 psi. Which seems to be in the range (shop manual said the minimum is 135 psi)

I once again got it to run better with the MAP sensor vacuum hose unplugged, and I even tried unpluging it from the harness, but that caused it to still run like crap. So maybe the sensor is not working as smooth as possible? But not working bad enough to throw a code.

Also, I checked the timing again, and it was a little off, so I adjusted it to where the little arrow on the timing belt cover was right over the center of the three notches, and it made the engine sound/run worse. I'm I doing it right? I made sure I used the jumper wire on that one plug. It seemed to sound/run better with the timing advanced (arrow above the first of the three notches). Why would this be? Why would the engine run better with advanced timing?:confused:


Damn I'm getting confused! :runaround: