KIA RIO Timing Belt

With 80,000 miles, my KIA RIO has been good to me so far, but, I did take it in for minor warranty work. The dealer asked me if I had taken it in for the 60,000 mile service. I had not. He said that I was very very lucky the timing belt had not gone out. He said they usually fail at 65,000 miles or so and if they do fail it will wreck my engine, costing $4,000 or more and not covered by warranty if I had not replaced the belt at 60,000 miles. He made it clear that timing belt failure was as common as buttered bread, and that I really need to fix it now. They showed me another car that just came in that had its engine destroyed, voiding the warranty as they had not replaced their timing belt at 60,000 miles. I see other postings by mechanics claiming to work at KIA dealers saying this is not a common problem. My dealer said it is to encourage me to pay $900+ for the full 60,000 mile service.

My dealer is now quoting me $400 to replace the timing belt only, and not do the full 60,000 mile service for $900+. I suspect this is extremely widespread. This whole thing is a disappointment for what has otherwise been a good KIA experience. I do not blame the dealer as it is KIA Corp not owning up to obvious poor design.

My dealer is now quoting me $400 to replace the timing belt only, and not do the full 60,000 mile service for $900+. I suspect this is extremely widespread. This whole thing is a disappointment for what has otherwise been a good KIA experience. I do not blame the dealer as it is KIA Corp not owning up to obvious poor design.

Find a independent shop that is thrustworthy (ask around, friends co-workers, etc) they should be able to do it cheaper. DO NOT use the OEM belt and tensioner, use a aftermarkert belt like Dayco or Goodyear (The Kia belts are junk). WHile the belt is being changed it is a good idea to change the water pump also with a new one not a rebuilt, because the water pump is located in the same area of timing belt and in order to change it the same procedure is required for both. Yes do it ASAP or you could ruin your engine if belt breaks.

Many other manufactures have the same setup on their engines where the timing belt needs to be changed at recommended intervals. It is not just Kia with this design. FORD< HONDA just to name a couple.

Why do you say the KIA timing belt is junk? Just asking....

Bought a used 2003 RIO with 87,000 miles on it two days ago.

Am now worried after reading all the Timing Belt breakage threads here!

Is the KIA RIO 1.6 liter DOHC especially hard on the timing belts ?
Does it run with especially high tension ?
Why would it be different than any other 4 cyl - 1.6 liter engine ?

KIA dealer wants $330 here in Spokane, WA to replace it. Probably wants
much, much more when they say I need to replace the tensioner pulley
and springs also ($120 at Shucks)...!

Do I have to spend $500 to $800 every 60,000 miles - Mother of God !

A good local shop wants $182 labor (2.5 hours time) and says I should use the KIA
TB which is $110 from the KIA dealership Parts Dept.!

I wanted to use a Goodyear ($51) or Dayco ($60) , and he argued against it -
he said no guarantee with other belts.....!

What guarantee !? If the belt breaks - they'll replace it ?! Eat that!

How about replacing the freaking engine if the belt breaks before 60,000 miles ? Yes...?

So - Korean TB or an American TB ?

Yes....of course I don't know where Goodyear or Dayco makes them...
probably China or outer Usbekistan by political prisoners (slaves)!

So - why do you say KIA Timing Belts are "junk" ?

DoctorBill

PS - I'd like to do the change myself, but the shop guy said that if I don't get the
belt and pulleys exactly right (just one notch off on the belt) , I'd break the engine.
So now he's got me scared - just where I want him....

Read this thread, it will help with changing of belt:

http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-2g-2001-2005-rio/34914-how-replace-timing-belt-warning-interference.html

Change the tensioner and idler pulley's also along with the water pump since you have to do the same work for TB and water pump.

Go to this site for a Factory Online Service Manual:

http://www.kia-forums.com/do-yourself/41502-online-service-manuals.html

Here is a Kia Rio Forum that has lots of info, if do a search on this forum you will find posts about the OEM and aftermarket timing belts.

http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-rio-forum/

Hope this helps

Tomorrow I will make a phone call to the local KIA Dealership and have a question
answered.

I have read here and elsewhere that one should go the KIA Dealership and get
a KIA Timing Belt (has to do with the "warranty").

Even a local private auto shop said that to me.

What warranty ?

Does that mean that if the Timing Belt breaks within the specified 60,000 miles,
that KIA will replace and/or repair the busted engine?

I seriously doubt that ! Bet they replace the BELT ! Ha !

Then why use a KIA TB ?

If no warranty on the engine's death from a broken TB, then why fart around
with KIA's belt?

I cannot believe that a KOREAN timing belt is better that a US made Goodyear
or Dayco TB....

OK. OK. now tell me neither are made in the USA... China...?

If I am completely wrong in this matter - I will come back on this Post and
change it....promise!

DoctorBill

Here is a "tip" !

I called our local KIA dealership about getting my Timing Belt replaced on the
RIO I just bought used.

I asked if he could tell me if my particular used car might have ever been worked
on at that dealership....

YES ! I gave him the VIN NUMBER and his computer showed that my just
purchased used car had had it's Timing Belt replaced 13,000 miles ago !
It was a KIA belt (too bad....).

Man oh man! Wonderful - no worries! (for 35,000 more miles anyway)

If your used car was used local to you, you can often get the previous owners
repair record (they won't tell you who owned it - privacy) so you can keep
up with the maintanence.

DoctorBill

I suspect that the dealers are using the 60,000 mile belt change as a way out of a lot of warranty work that is actually being caused by dropped valves, not broken timing belts. (The timing belts are probably breaking after the valve drops). I made my rant on this in the other timing related thread for rios here....

Best of luck,
Eric

There really isn't any way to prove what went and caused the problem in the first place.

I suspect that the dealers are using the 60,000 mile belt change as a way out of a lot of warranty work that is actually being caused by dropped valves, not broken timing belts. (The timing belts are probably breaking after the valve drops). I made my rant on this in the other timing related thread for rios here....


If this was the case the valves would drop even after the timing belt was replaced, no?

This is not happening.

Solution? Replace the belt at the required intervals as in the maintence schedule. This holds true for all makes with an interference engine, not only KIA's.

Why would an engine be constructed in this way? It seems like obscenely bad engineering to build an engine that self detructs when a belt breaks! Is there any advantage to this design, aside from the $900 repair every 60000 miles?

Why would an engine be constructed in this way? It seems like obscenely bad engineering to build an engine that self detructs when a belt breaks! Is there any advantage to this design, aside from the $900 repair every 60000 miles?

Why would an engine be designed this way? Very simple, to get more efficiency from a small displacement engine. Many, many manufacturers have used and interference engine, Honda, early Ford Escorts, Geo Metros, to name only three.

I'll ask the question this way, why would anyone spend the amount of money that a car costs and not pay attention to the owners manual, and if one purchased a used car without a manual why would one not do a simple search on the net regarding the maintenance on their auto. Its up to the owner to keep up with the maintenance schudule, be it oil changes, tranny fluid changes/flushes, tune/up ect., ect., even timing belt changes. Don't blame the manufacturer, you're the one responsible for not doing the required maintenance.

Did you also ever check your oil and keep checking your air pressure.

Have a good one!

Just got me a lifetime warranty waterpump $84 and new belt on order $34. Will have them tomorrow. Reading this post just spooked me a bit:smokin:

Just an update:

I pulled it down to replace the timing belt today and I was amazed at how easy it is on the later Kia's They re-designed the engine, so you don't have to remove the front engine mount. Pretty cool. I got this thing 95% tore down, inside of 45 minutes and found it was just as easy, if not easier than my Geo Metro. The only thing that kept me from getting it all the way torn dowm. was the fact that my impact driver was too old and worn out to remove the main pully bolt. Oh well, I bought a new one today, so I'll hit again in the morning. Hopefully, by the time I leave for work, I'll have it half way back together.

Another update:

I got 'er all done. New timing belt, waterpump, coolant and belts. I was amazed at how good the timing belt looked, for having 70,000 miles on it. It looked like I just replaced it last month. Even all the other componenets I replaced still were in good condition. If I was a total idiot, I probably could have ran it 100,000 miles and still held up. LOL I was 10,000 miles past due, so I didn't want to do that. It just seems like this car is just not showing any signs of wear yet. I'm pretty impressed with it. So far, this car hasn't missed a beat and never failed me. I'm having a bit of trouble why some here are having their timing belts grenade out at less than 50,000 miles. Are you guys driving your cars hard?

So, KIA gets a vote from me. I'll put it head to head with Nissan or Toyota. Tomorrow, I plan on going back to the dealer I bought the car from and having them update their system, to show that my I did the services myself to keep up on my warranty and they have it on record, incase something happens later. This is a good tip for you guys, who do your own servicing and you want to drastically reduce the burden of proof, in the event of a failure of some sort.

I suspect that the dealers are using the 60,000 mile belt change as a way out of a lot of warranty work that is actually being caused by dropped valves, not broken timing belts. (The timing belts are probably breaking after the valve drops). I made my rant on this in the other timing related thread for rios here....

Best of luck,
Eric

What I would do, if I ever came to the point of rebuilding the head, I would replace all the valves with stainless steel, like a lot of Geo Metro owners tend to do. :smokin:

[QUOTE=mdocod;6390976]I suspect that the dealers are using the 60,000 mile belt change as a way out of a lot of warranty work that is actually being caused by dropped valves, not broken timing belts. (The timing belts are probably breaking after the valve drops). I made my rant on this in the other timing related thread for rios here....

There is not a problem with the valves dropping. The belts dry rot and become worn out as do all other belts on every vehicle...toyota, nissan, ford, volkswagen...etc. and the $900 is not just for a belt replacement. A 60k service is one of your major services recommended every 30K miles. It consist of usually an a/f, oil change, , trans flush, cool flush, tire rotation, multipoint inspection, brake clean and adjust, dtc scan, idle adjust, ecm updates if needed, wiper blade replacement, tire balance and rotate, p/s fluid change, brake fluid change and pulling the front of the engine apart and replacing the timing belt. If you would read your owners manual you would notice a normal and severe driving maintenance intervals. any vehicle with a belt has to be changed and if you go by the severe maintenance interval(the one most of us fall into) you will change the belt more often. No one will ever convince me that an aftermarket belt like dayco or goodyear is a better belt than OEM. Most OEM belts are made by companies like gates. A lot of people are scared of dealerships because of "high prices" but when you consider the equipment and resources they have its not that much more if any. Yes Kia stands behind the 10/100,000 warranty 100% if you keep your maintenance kept up just like another manufacture.

[QUOTE=mdocod;6390976]I suspect that the dealers are using the 60,000 mile belt change as a way out of a lot of warranty work that is actually being caused by dropped valves, not broken timing belts. (The timing belts are probably breaking after the valve drops). I made my rant on this in the other timing related thread for rios here....

There is not a problem with the valves dropping. The belts dry rot and become worn out as do all other belts on every vehicle...toyota, nissan, ford, volkswagen...etc. and the $900 is not just for a belt replacement. A 60k service is one of your major services recommended every 30K miles. It consist of usually an a/f, oil change, , trans flush, cool flush, tire rotation, multipoint inspection, brake clean and adjust, dtc scan, idle adjust, ecm updates if needed, wiper blade replacement, tire balance and rotate, p/s fluid change, brake fluid change and pulling the front of the engine apart and replacing the timing belt. If you would read your owners manual you would notice a normal and severe driving maintenance intervals. any vehicle with a belt has to be changed and if you go by the severe maintenance interval(the one most of us fall into) you will change the belt more often. No one will ever convince me that an aftermarket belt like dayco or goodyear is a better belt than OEM. Most OEM belts are made by companies like gates. A lot of people are scared of dealerships because of "high prices" but when you consider the equipment and resources they have its not that much more if any. Yes Kia stands behind the 10/100,000 warranty 100% if you keep your maintenance kept up just like another manufacture.

Yea, at 71,000, my OEM belt still looked pretty good, but I replaced it anyway, just because. I did replace it with the AutoZone Dura-Last, which is made by Dayco. It has a 1 year warranty, which the OEM belts probably don't.

I contacted the service department, where I bought my car and let them know what I've done and to see if I needed to have anything updated in their system, as far as warranty information and they said no and it sounds like I got things dialed in really good. Another thing they do is replace the waterpump on the 60K service. In parts, I spent around $240 and that is in all the belts, water pump and idler pulleys, so having it all done for $900 at a dealer really isn't too bad.

[QUOTE=mdocod;6390976]
There is not a problem with the valves dropping. The belts dry rot and become worn out as do all other belts on every vehicle...toyota, nissan, ford, volkswagen...etc. and the $900 is not just for a belt replacement. A 60k service is one of your major services recommended every 30K miles. It consist of usually an a/f, oil change, , trans flush, cool flush, tire rotation, multipoint inspection, brake clean and adjust, dtc scan, idle adjust, ecm updates if needed, wiper blade replacement, tire balance and rotate, p/s fluid change, brake fluid change and pulling the front of the engine apart and replacing the timing belt. If you would read your owners manual you would notice a normal and severe driving maintenance intervals. any vehicle with a belt has to be changed and if you go by the severe maintenance interval(the one most of us fall into) you will change the belt more often. No one will ever convince me that an aftermarket belt like dayco or goodyear is a better belt than OEM. Most OEM belts are made by companies like gates. A lot of people are scared of dealerships because of "high prices" but when you consider the equipment and resources they have its not that much more if any. Yes Kia stands behind the 10/100,000 warranty 100% if you keep your maintenance kept up just like another manufacture.

Yep, I totally agree. I called the dealer where I bought my car and let them know I just changed all the belts, waterpump and coolant and asked them if I needed to do anything to update any service records in their dealership and they said "no, it sounds like you have it dialed in pretty good." I also wanted to make sure my warranty was still good, since I did the work myself.

There is a Problem with the Kia Belts. Just got a 2004 Kia Rio, 32,000 Actual Miles, nice clean well cared for. BROKEN TIMING BELT!, No no warranty since you are supposed to replace the belt at 5 years time regardless of miles. The belt lost teeth, what usually happens, locking up the engine. Am in the process of tearing it down. The belt is hard, not very flexible, doubt it has high saturated nitrates for heat, as the Dayco, Gates, and Goodyear belts do, the bond between the cogs and belt obviously broke down. I have worked on cars for years, remember the Chrysler K cars, saw many with 150,000 miles not a bolt touched and yes they had a rubber timing belt. This is a copy of a Mazda engine, which also uses rubber belts and they last far longer than this. IF you have one of these CHANGE the belt, as to using a KIA belt, Very sure Hyundia has switched the design, manufacturer, and IT IS NOT the same belt. As of 2006 the Rio is really a Hyundia Accent different engine, and belt. Dayco Gates, Goodyear and other major makers MAKE quality products, mechanics wouldn't buy them if they weren't. Used engines for this car are over $2000 plus installation, as they are impossible to find and GOLD to a wrecking yard. This should tell everyone THERE is a PROBLEM. If this engine is completely gone then the car will be scrapped, it is currently at a wrecking yard.

Update, Now have it torn apart (I work at a wrecking yard, not the owner). Upon inspection this is a Mazda through and through, akin to the protoge or a 323. It is a well built engine Quality components including the tensioner and indler. Impossible to believe Kia scrimped on the belt, they sure aren't using plastic everywhere like Daewoo does. compared the belt to a Probe belt and it is equal or better. After looking at the car I believe I know the problem. In an exerted effort to quiet the car Kia body men not only insulated the hood, and added an insulated plastic cover. They sealed the engine compartment, with a rubber gasket running the entire length of the fenders, hood hinges and firewall, add in a large part of the front hood and you have a sealed hood (kind of like your refrigerator door). Problem is you are sealing in the heat of the exhaust manifold, catalitic converter, as well as the head and engine in general. If your idling around town your on BAKE mode, on the highway air would flush through, but this is hard on everything including wiring, coils, you name it. My advice strip the moldings of the top of the fenders and save your belt and your KIA. Have seen this before, the Mitsubishi engine shoved into the Chrysler minivan, and the AMC Renault who's radiator constantly formed air locks, sometimes the body doesn't fit the Engine...

i just replaced mine not that hard once u unbolt motormount and lift engine with a jack u can also check it first by taking off the top cover. if it is loose u can ad a little morr tension so it doesnt jump to the next tooth

What I would do, if I ever came to the point of rebuilding the head, I would replace all the valves with stainless steel, like a lot of Geo Metro owners tend to do. :smokin:

Just an update here for kicks:

My Kia now has 416K on it. Second engine. Third tranny. Three wrecks and a branded title. Still runs like a bat outa hell and gets over 30 miles to the gallon. The old car and I have paid off over 90k of debt and that includes a mortgage.
Yea.....I think Kia's are worth keeping around. :smokin: