Hello,

I have a 2004 GP GT with 81,000 miles on it. Always use mid-grade gas, use fuel inj cleaner into about every 3rd tank of gas.

About 2 months ago the problem started: The car will not start on the 1st try. Everything sounds normal, no weird warning lights, engine just cranks but does not fire up. Stop trying to start the car for a few seconds, turn the key again, and the car fires right up. Once running, no problems at all, car runs like a dream. No other symptoms that I have noticed; fuel mileage is normal, no weird sounds, ect. If the car is only off for a little while (maybe 30 minutes or less), it will start up on the 1st try.

I took the car to the local Dobbs and they cleaned the throttle body. After that did not solve the problem, they did refund my money but they were not sure what to do next. :banghead:

Possible Fuel filter or fuel pump problem? Once running, the cars acts normal so I am not sure they could be the issue. I would think some kind of sensor problem, but I really don't know. Any Ideas?

Thanks.

So what happens if you initially turn the key to "on", but don't actually start it, wait about 10 seconds, and then turn it to "off", then try starting it?

1 second or 10 seconds without actually turning over the engine, it acts the same. Well, i never tired to not actually turn the car on, move the key to off, and then try it.

Might want to look into your fuel regulator...or it could also be a weak fuel pump but usually you will notice a loss in performance while driving if your pump is bad..also like you said a bad filter?

If you can, check your fuel pressure going to your injectors.

So what happens if you initially turn the key to "on", but don't actually start it, wait about 10 seconds, and then turn it to "off", then try starting it?

Ok, i have started the car 4 times this way since you posted it and it started every time. It still took the engine a few seconds of turning over to get it to fire up, but it does seem to "work".

So, what does this mean might be wrong with the car?

Thanks.

Someone with more knowledge will probably have to take over on this one, but it seems like a fuel delivery problem. When you turn the key to "on", the fuel pump is placed in a sorta "pump like crazy" mode to get the fuel system pumped up for the impending start attempt. It sounds like it is not doing it fast enough. Do you hear it prime the system? It should only do it for a couple of seconds. I would try the experiment again, but this time turn it to on and wait for the sound of the fuel pump to stop, then try starting it.

You know, I was thinking about this problem and a wierd problem I experienced with my '98 GTP a couple of weeks ago. I got in it in the morning to go to work, and the first time I turned it over, it would not start. So I stopped and was thinking "oh oh". I went ahead and tried again and it cranked for awhile and towards the end, it sputtered. I said to myself, "ok, ok, maybe we are okay here". I went for the gold on the third attempt and bingo, it started. It ran fine all the way to work, but I noticed the TCS (Traction Control System?) light was on all the way to work, and I could not turn it off. When I came out to the car after work, everything was okay. I am thinking Crank Position Sensor, or something like that is starting to go on mine and wanted to bring that into the realm of possibilities for you.

Also, keep in mind the '04 and up models have that "drive by wire" throttle system. GM has a TSB out on the issue(s) and it may require professional service. For example there is no throttle position sensor - TPS like on the earlier models or an IAC but there is a throttle control actuator at the throttle plate that may get out of kilter and the PCM module is reacting to it. A good throttle body cleaning helps out on some issues. And on top of that the GM engineers changed the fuel supply system. There is no longer any return line going back to the fuel pump assembly and gas tank. I don't think there is even a fuel pressure regulator as a result.

It sounds like it is having to relearn when you do the key on and off for a few seconds procedure. What does it do when you partially give it gas at start up?

Yeah when I turn the key to "on" i can hear the pump humming for a few seconds. It seems that if I turn the key to on and wait a bit, then try to start the car it will work.

So does this problem need to be fixed at a GM service shop or ? Anything I can try to do to fix it? Can i just wait everytime I start the car or could this problem get worse?

Thanks again.

did you get this problem fixed? what was it?