94 Passport 3.2l misfire

I have a 94 passport 3.2 4x4 5sp. with 180k miles and had what i thought was an injector problem, so i replaced 2 that i knew went bad(used a stethoscope to listen to them) and replaced all the seals and clips. also replaced the IACV. got everything back together and it ran like crap for a while until i realized i had forgetten to reattach the brake booster vacuum hose, got that taken care of and it ran like a dream for maybe 4 hours. was on my way home and topped off the tank and when i went to leave to gas station the truck started running like crap again and it took a minute to start.

sypmtoms at the moment are is it has a miss or two, i just changed the plugs and wires, tested for spark and no problems there that i know of although i'm not sure if the spark should arc back on the coil if you take the plug wire off the tower.

a loud whirring/grinding sound under the hood(think its the a/c comp, but not sure)

what sounds like a vacuum leak but i checked all the lines and they're in good shape and the upper gasket was put in with silicon sealant on both sides so it isn't that. nuts/bolts properly torqued.

the exhaust looks normal but real thick with a very strong gas smell, and the exhaust burns my eyes just getting anywhere near the fumes, no coolant smell or excess water vapor coming out of the tail pipe or muffler drain hole. not losing any oil or coolant and no coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant.

engine light not coming on but it did throw a VSS code but the check engine light didn't come on while i was driving and the book said to check the harness at the ECM for proper connection and otherwise ignore it. checked and nothing was loose.

am going to get a fuel pressure test gauge and have the coil packs/ICM checked this weekend.

from what i've read and a gut feeling i think it might either be the fuel pump or the timing belt.

i know the timing isn't adjustable but does anyone know what the timing should be set at?

is there a way to determine if it is out of time with a light?

any other thoughts on what it could be?

any help would br greatly appreciated.

Could it be the water pump beginning to seize? It'll take the timing belt with it. Ask Ramblin' Fever. How many miles on the current timing belt and water pump? You could remove the upper timing covers and take a peak...

You might try pulling those new plugs to see if any are fouled already. If you find a bad plug, swap the coil packs and see if the miss follows it. Unburned hydrocarbons are making it out the tailpipe - not good for the cats. I've seen 2 trucks with a single bad coilpack, both '97s, and both really chugged. It wasn't like an isolated miss every few seconds. It seemed like the cylinder wasn't firing at all, but it would improve a bad at higher rpms.

Curious to know what you find!

Pop the hood in the dark and look for arcing. Don't start wondering about ignition timing. If it is off, the ECM is getting bad info from something. For some reason, your getting too much fuel.

Could it be the water pump beginning to seize? It'll take the timing belt with it. Ask Ramblin' Fever. How many miles on the current timing belt and water pump? You could remove the upper timing covers and take a peak...

You might try pulling those new plugs to see if any are fouled already. If you find a bad plug, swap the coil packs and see if the miss follows it. Unburned hydrocarbons are making it out the tailpipe - not good for the cats. I've seen 2 trucks with a single bad coilpack, both '97s, and both really chugged. It wasn't like an isolated miss every few seconds. It seemed like the cylinder wasn't firing at all, but it would improve a bad at higher rpms.

Curious to know what you find!

i'm as curious as you are. makes me wanna go back to a carb car.

it's the same with what mine's doing, runs like crap at idle but at higher rpm's it runs a bit better but still missing. as soon as the rain stops i'll be checking the plugs for fouling(which i should have done before this), and will take the icm and coil packs to be checked.

pulled the plugs today and all are carbon fouled. also when i started it it ran fine for 10-15 seconds and went back to running like crap. i'm thinking it's an ignition problem, maybe even a bad set of wires. when i pulled the wires it seemed like they came off way too easy and noticed that the stem part that goes on the plug on a couple of the wires were loose and were sliding up into the grommet section that seals the wire to the valve cover, so they probably arent getting a proper connection. they're under warranty so i'll go switch em out asap and see what happens. as stated previously, i'll be taking the ICM and coil packs in to be checked this weekend.

if anyone else has any suggestions, please let me know, thanks.

I'm just remembering now that your ignition setup is a little different than mine. You have 3 coils, while I have 6 coil packs in a coil-over-plug setup. Changing wires sounds like a good start. Which brand of plug did you recently switch to?

I'm just remembering now that your ignition setup is a little different than mine. You have 3 coils, while I have 6 coil packs in a coil-over-plug setup. Changing wires sounds like a good start. Which brand of plug did you recently switch to?

i replaced the denzo's with ngk's. also switching out those plug wires today, i'll post back in a few hours with what happens.

It'd be odd for all three coil packs to fail at the same time...

just got back from the parts store, ICM tested ok and have the new wires on, and now it seems like it's running even worse. i just wish it was possible to see if it's out of time without having to take the timing belt covers off. looks like it's off to the shop for the old girl.

yeah, it would be very odd for all of them to go out at once. but stranger things have happened, especially to me, lol.

forgot to mention that when i took the coil packs off, one of them had green corrosion in the terminal that the ICM plugs into. not sure what it means, but it was just the one coil pack.

Do you still have that whirring sound? How many miles on the old belt?

Do you still have that whirring sound? How many miles on the old belt?

yeah, the sound is still there. and i have no idea how old the timing belt is. hasn't been changed since i've had it and the guy i got it from didn't have it changed so i'd have to say it's at least 5 years old.

think i'm about to break down and take it to the shop.

Before you run it to the shop, read your pm message I sent you and check for ANY type of clear/watery fluid under the timing belt covers, in front of the oil pan.

ok, crawled under the truck but didn't spot anything leaking or wet, although i did notice one of the bolts on the transfer case isn't tightened down all the way and it's got a small leak. also checked out all the brake/fuel/vacuum lines while i was under there and they all looked pretty good. couldn't see any damaged or disconnected wires/harnesses. gonna change out the fuel filter just for kicks. i'm pretty positive it jumped time though, fuel and ignition systems checked alright and just by the way it runs. also pretty sure there's a vaccum leak somewhere, i just cant find it. wish it would at least throw a code or something to give me some kind of idea.

thanks for the info guys

If you'r timing's off, it probably will not throw a code...mine didn't anyways.

Did you take off the timing belt cover?

i live in an apt. complex so unfortunately i'm not allowed to do that sorta stuff, barely got away with changing the injectors out without getting in trouble(damn nosy neighbors and no garage) and don't wanna push my luck. called the shop where i normally go and they said they would do some checking to find out what it is. hoping it isn't the timing, they want $800 to do it. they do really good work, but that's a bit much. i'll post back after the weekend and let ya know what they find.

$800 is NOT bad if they replace the timing belt, tensioner and waterpump. Even if it's not timing, you're on borrowed time if that belt is the original and/or waterpump, they only last so long.

When I had my belt, pump, and tensioner replaced, it was $1,050 including all new hoses, other belts, atf drain/refill.

well, had the shop check it out and it's not good. did a compression check and came back as #1) 120, #3) 90, #5) 130, and it is burning oil. looks like it's time for a new vehicle. figured i'd be better off getting something newer anyway. thanks for all the help guys.

I'm telling you the timing WILL do this if the timing belt is stretched and old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAVE YOU PULLED THE TIMING BELT COVERS????

i live in an apt. complex so unfortunately i'm not allowed to do that sorta stuff, barely got away with changing the injectors out without getting in trouble(damn nosy neighbors and no garage) and don't wanna push my luck.

they're closed right now so i'll give em a call tomorrow and tell em to check it.

I understand you can not do this, but the shop has had your truck for a few days???? It takes a very short amount of time to pull a cover, less time then running a compression check.

Let us know.....all else fails, she's worth about $1k on the open market.

That thread started by wildlysmiley (or similar) went just like this. 2eyefishclaw chimed in on that to say the same thing. Get the belt looked at before getting rid of the truck!

EDIT: Somewhat related...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=545766

FWIW - I wasn't yelling, just don't want you to give up on an engine that may not have anything wrong with it.

I talked to the shop today and they're pretty much set on the blown engine. And after heading out to the range on tuesday with a friend to help clear my head I realize I didn't really even think about the compression being off because of the timing belt. Think I'm gonna have to find another shop, which kinda sucks because the one I normally use does really good work. And I think the "oil" they saw was probably just raw gas mixing with the fouling on the plugs because the timing is off.

And I also checked out that link that FL 3.2L posted, and that is exactly what's goin on with my truck, except for the white smoke.

And Ramblin, don't worry about the yelling thing, it never really crossed my mind, it's just with the luck I have with cars is not very good, and here's my story:
1) '80 citation, rusted out so bad the windshield came out, with the frame it goes in, when I was in an accident exactly 30 days after I got my d/l.
2) '84 chevy monza spyder, blown motor/rear dif.
3) '74 plymouth satellite sebring, 3 motors, 2 tranny's, 6 starters, 4 alternators, 2 carbs.(All my fault though, lol, had a bit of a lead foot on that one.)
4) '85 chevy p/u, blown motor, transfer case/tranny.
5) '87 accord, unknown engine/electrical failure.

So I think I'm gonna be taking it to an import shop just for peace of mind prolly have to take a loan out to get it fixed though, which is why Ii was leaning towards a new car. That and the mpg is not good, barely 16mpg city/20hwy, and at $70 a tank a week...well, you know.

thanks for the input guys, i'll keep ya posted, will be next week some time before i have the time to get it checked out.

Do you have white smoke? Or were you saying your truck had same symptoms except white smoke?

I completely understand the luck of the draw...my a/c compressor just went out on my diesel, same truck that just received a new $600 fuel pump, $830 in tires, and now needs A/C worked on all in 3-4 mnths.

Before you take out a loan to fix it, YOU need to decide what fits best for your needs/budget...an older truck that, depending on how good of a mechanical maintenance history it's had, could turn out to run flawlessly for another few years OR being it IS 14yrs of age with a questionable history, could cause grief too.

I don't know....so many of these trucks run forever, but if they've been neglected could be hel$ on wheels too.

Before you take a loan out, decide if the truck will overall, regarding gas prices will fit in your budget....BUT a new car payment can add up to way more then gas for a paid off Rodeo, given that it runs good after you find out what the issue is.

If what your asking is if the head gasket might have gone, the answer is no. The smoke that is coming out of the exhaust is really thick, but it's just unburned gas. I've had blown head gaskets on two of my cars, and it's not that. And the guy I bought it from did take care of it maintenance wise, oil changes etc., well, except for the timing belt so it's in pretty decent shape. He's never had any problems with it. He lives across the street so I know he's not yankin my chain and I woulda known if it was down for anything major.

On the plus side, the shop I'm taking it to tomorrow quoted me almost half as much, $450+tx as opposed to $800+tx, as first the place for the timing belt/tensioner/water pump. I'm going to have them check the timing belt first, get a second opinion type deal. I'll let you know what's up as soon as i find out.

And as for the cost of fixing it compared to buying a dif vehicle, it's about the same, maybe $30 a month more including gas. The good thing is the loan I took out for the honda is about paid off, two more months and it's done. I am kinda thinkin of just gettin it fixed and trading it in on something different. I'd prefer an SUV because I do a lot of fishing and whatnot and it's kinda hard to get a 7 1/2ft. fishin pole case in the trunk of a car, lol, although I was able to in my plymouth.

I'd say keep the truck and fix her up, personally.

If you live in the states or Canada, 90% of dealerships are refusing trucks/suv's as trade ins right now, and/or robbing you blind, meaning you won't get anything for it.

If the guy across the street took excellent care of it, chances are she just needs a new belt....even if that belt doesn't *look* stretched, it might be....personally, I've never heard of a shop doing it for less then $700

Make sure the shop you're using is actually going to do the job and not rob you blind, and make SURE they use OEM Isuzu replacement parts ONLY! Also ask for your old parts back.

I had Goodyear do my first timing belt replacement at 60k miles on my truck, I only chose them cause they were the cheapest....yeah, they also screwed up a lot of things. So just be careful, the cheapest shop is not always the best.

I wouldn't bother with getting more and more opinions..if the original owner never changed the belt and that truck has more then 100-120k miles, that belt and or timing belt tensioner is walking on a thin timeline anyhow.

Keep us posted!

just heard back from the shop, and it's def the timing belt. was off 4 teeth on the left cam, 2 on the right. just gonnabe couple weeks before i get the funds together though. and i did tell em to use OEM replacement parts, last thing i need is to go through this again specially with my annual fishing trip coming up in a few months. it did push the price up a $100 bucks though. and he's doing it cheap because he's a friend of the guy i got the truck from. prolly shoulda took it there to begin with and saved myself the hassle, lol. ah well, live and learn i guess.

almost forgot, gonna have to pick up an a/c compressor for it too. but i'll save that for another time. besides, this is the first vehicle i've had that had working a/c, so a little bit longer without it isn't gonna kill me.

Glad you got it figured out!

Sweet deal....glad it was that and not something more.

Keep us posted and good luck on your fishing trip!

Well, got the truck back and it's running decent. Have a sticky injector and it figures it's one of the one's i replaced, but it isn't that bad, just a little bit rough on start up, smoothes out after a bit and while cruising. Guy at the shop said to run some of that aerosol type injector cleaner through it, should do the trick. That, and i should prolly clean up those plugs too, probably still fouled from before, would help a lot i think. All that's left to do is that injector and the a/c comp, and it'll be right as rain, woohoo!

Thanks again for all the help guys, really appreciate it.