So this Thursday I'm installing inner and outer tie rods, lower control arms, stabilizer bar struts and monroe quickstruts on my 2000 3.8. I was of the impression that I could essentially remove the components, install the new stuff and then take it for a shop alignment. Everything I've read seems to indicate that the quickstruts are a bolt in job as the only real alignment done is toe by the tie rods. Am I wrong with this? I read in another post here by wiswind that a camber plate kit is required? Can anyone comment on this? If I need to order the camber plate kit I need to know asap.

Thanks!

Piper

My understanding is that no camber plates are required for a normal strut replacement.

I didn't replace as many parts as you're planning for this project, but I changed struts on my 2000 without problem (and I even re-used the original springs, a step you'll skip with quickstrut units). Everything bolted in as expected. I had new tires put on and an alignment shortly after completing the project. The shop mentioned no difficulties. I saw the alignment numbers; it wasn't off by much.

Out of curiosity: What's motivating the change of the lower control arms? Have you seen problems that indicate wear? My '00 recently turned 100K, and want to know what I might expect in the future. Tie rods (inner and outer) and stabilizer bar hardware all appeared to be in fine shape when I did the struts.

Let us know how the project works out. We want pictures!

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LATER UPDATE:
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For those trying to figure out what we're talking about, here's a picture of my '00 Windstar's top strut mount:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2945874410056340866EKZmdt

The three bolts holding the upper strut plate (technically known as the strut mount) to the strut tower (which is part of the vehicle's unibody; one of the bolts is within the socket wrench) are what would need to move side-to-side in order to change the vehicle's camber. On a stock Windstar, the bolts fit through holes and are not adjustable. This is common situation for many vehicles.

A camber kit is some form of hardware that creates a slot in this location, so that the top of the strut can be moved side-to-side. The following picture isn't for a Windstar, but it was the first picture I could find in a hurry, and illustrates the concept:

http://www.focussport.com/ford_focus_camber_kits.htm

Generally, a vehicle that doesn't have a camber adjustment shouldn't need it; difficulty aligning a vehicle without a non-OEM camber adjustment could point to a damaged unibody structure. Most camber plate kits are sold to the performance crowd, who are looking for suspension setups that weren't part of the original vehicle's design.

Hey Phil

Glad to hear that you didn't need/use the camber kit. I looked at your photos pretty close and felt sure you'd have mentioned it.

As for my lower control arm, when I had the van into the mechanic who I really trust she (yep, she) told me the L ball joint (and therefore the lower control arm) need replacement badly. I changed that 2 days later and she was right - mucho looseness. Along with that, the R inner tie rod needed doing but not as bad. So, as I was going to be doing the quickstruts already I felt the extra $71 for the opposite control arm was money well spent. I personally like when I can choose to do these types of jobs vs having my wife, the primary van driver, call when I'm away on business and tell me the van needs work and she's taken it to the shop - $700 sort of story. I find it comforting I guess as well to know that the front end is all new once the job is complete. (yes, Tartasauce, I know I didn't mention the stabilizer bar bushings but ha, I just did them 5000km ago!).

For 2 new quickstruts, inner and outer tie rod ends, the stabilizer bar links, and 1 lower control arm I was at $680. I don't know what that would represent at a dealership/shop but I'm sure it'd be close to $2k.

I'm going to be in a rush to do this all on Thursday so I won't be taking pix but I'll report back.

Piper

The camber plate is NOT required.
It is needed if for some reason the camber needed adjustment.
It adds about $150 to the job for the plates.

If you do not need a camber adjustment before changing the struts/springs/etc.....I can see no reason why it would need it after.

I DID mention it in another thread as the person was advised by their shop that they needed a camber adjustment.....and had been told that they needed the plate.

I do not know why it was needed.....but suggested a 2nd opinion....and if needed....to have the plates installed when the struts were being done....as that all has to come apart for the plates.

I had my local shop put monroe quick struts in my '96 last spring (prompted by a broken spring", No mention of a camber issue or plate being needed.

I am not a mechanic to start with.....and certainly not in the position to advise against what a mechanic's in person diagnosis was.
The 2nd opinion is a way to see if they were being jacked up for more work/money.

One of my annoyances with the Windstar is how the ball joints are integrated into the LCA - to the point that repair requires replacing the whole unit. That, coupled with ball joints that don't have grease fittings.

I caught this weakness early on, thanks to wiswind - and now regularly pump grease into the ball joint using the needle method.

I saw the other thread wiswind mentioned as well. I'd be hesitant of a shop that recommends that approach. My concern is that the camber plate is simply a way to cover up a more serious underlying problem - and the suspicion that it's just a way to jack up the bill.

Well I tell ya Phil, I replaced a lower ball joint yesterday on my buddy's 1996 Jeep Cherokee. The ball joint gets pressed into and out of the steering knuckle. Different design than the windstar but same job basically. To do his jeep it took from 9:00 am until 5:30 pm. The ball joint was so difficult to get out that I ended up having to go to my office and get my oxy/acet. set up to heat and quench the steering knuckle. Piece of cake then. The ball joint was $49. To get a lower control arm for a windstar it's $71 and the Moog one is guaranteed for life. The windstar job takes about 45 min. At the end of the day, I know (and I can't believe I'm saying this :banghead: ) I prefer the windstar ball joint.

FWIW, my 2 cents.

Oh, Wiswind, I wasn't suggesting that you implied the camber plate had to be done too but I must say that I find your advice really helpful and without fault so I was concerned when I read you mention it in the job I was planning.

Piper

Northern Piper,

That's good info on the lower control arm pricing. My 230 kmi '99 sub-frame is badly bent-up in the front (too many rocks in the road), and I plan to change it out later this year. The lca's so far have passed my inspections ... but I'm now thinking of swapping them out when the sub-frame is replaced.

Piper -

Yeah, not all replaceable ball joints are *easily* replaceable. It'd be nice if common wear items (I put ball joints in this category) were replaceable without lots of hassle, special equipment - or both.

amen. My wife wants me to get more exercise. I'm more sore after a weekend of windstar work than the 10 k's I use to run every 2 or 3 days!!

amen. My wife wants me to get more exercise. I'm more sore after a weekend of windstar work than the 10 k's I use to run every 2 or 3 days!!

I doubt you need camber plates.. You wont know until its on the rack..
Any tire wear? Cupping inside tread? Subframe rubbers all look good?

My winie does have them tho..

Oh, did you get new rubber on all four tires? Its best to have good tread on the rack.. Just a tip..

Oh by the way, missed you guys today! Was out today doing some shopping.. Tomtom for the wife, and a Mio for me.. I should get the tomtom, its so much easier!!

well I didn't get new tires but they're in good shape, no cupping, wear etc.
What's a "mio" or "tomtom"??

Those quick struts come with the upper bearing plate? That's the only thing up there I've heard concern and complaints about that could haunt you later.

Those quick struts come with the upper bearing plate? That's the only thing up there I've heard concern and complaints about that could haunt you later.

If they are complete, They have too..

TOMTOM gps Mio gps TOMs are much easier, but less on your screen in cokpit 3d mode which I didnt like..

The Mio has all the roads lables up to 3miles out in the same mode. Kinda like your flying above in a heli.. Makes you know what roads are coming up.. Plus it also has text to speech, and that really makes a difference when your lost!
The high priced tomtoms have text reading to speech, but its up ther in price. 300 and up.. Mios start at 129.99 Radio Hack and all of them have SD card slot for upgrades like MR T voices haha.. I put Clint Eastwood in my wifes, and it says "Your At your Dest, PUNK!" haha

Ya If your looking for a nice GPS unit Look at the MIO ones. Dont drive with it until you learn the features and funtion first!! Its a bit harder to learn, but well worth it. One feature I love on the TOM, is the speeding control. You can set your speed say at 47mph, and it will dong and tell you your over 47mph. Wife is a heavy footer... Tom also has Live Traffic but its another 100 bucks nice but We live in the subs so theres no need for it.. Mio has no traffic monitor antenna but Has a more livey map and speech "Turn onto West Ave in 300yrds" The road names are spoken and it keeps your eyes on the road. etc..

Tripletdaddy......that is the reason that I like the Quick Strut, particularly for older vehicles......you get the whole unit.....including upper bearing plate, upper bearing, isolators.....new springs.....
It would be a shame to install new struts....and then shortly thereafter have to pull the whole thing out again for an upper bearing or spring replacement (spring replacement requiring BOTH sides come out as the springs must be replaced as a pair).

GPS units......just remember not to leave them out in the vehicle when away from it.....they are new gadgets that attract theives........
From what I have read....traffic reports require a subscription.

I've never yet used Quick-Struts ... but I like them for safety. I intend to use them hereafter. I've had too many "close-calls" using spring compressors.