2000 Toyota Camry Humming Noise at High Speeds


lorakew
03-09-2008, 04:24 PM
I've been having this issue for a while. I made the mistake of letting my uncle take a look at the brakes on my car, and while he was looking at it, my car fell of the jack. (lesson learned: never let family help you with your car, they think they know everything... come to find out he doesn't even work on his own car)

Well ever since then, my car has been making a humming sound at high speeds (from 50-70mph). This usually happens when i'm on the interstate, and the humming is coming from the front of the car, it's hard for me to pin point where (at 70mph). But i think it might be from the wheel he was looking at (drivers side). The humming fades in and out.

Any suggestions? I would like to fix this myself without having to take it to a mechanic.

Update: I had the tires balanced and rotated a few weeks ago. The humming is still there. My tires also have rims. Not sure if that makes a difference.

RIP
03-10-2008, 01:49 AM
Rotate the tires. Does it make a difference?

solidg
03-10-2008, 09:47 PM
is the cel on?

ProMan
03-11-2008, 05:08 PM
It's probably the wheel bearing or hub damaged while hit the ground.

jdmccright
03-12-2008, 12:25 PM
Oh Lordy, good thing no one was under that car. I ALWAYS use jack stands.

Ayup, sounds like the fall damaged the hub bearings or bearing races by causing indentations in the rollers and/or races. The uneven surfaces then causes the humming sound as the bearing rollers roll over the indentations. Eventually, it will wear further and get louder, then fail. See about having the hub bearing and races replaced.

lorakew
03-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Rotate the tires. Does it make a difference?

I had them balanced/rotated a few weeks ago. The humming is still there.

lorakew
03-12-2008, 11:15 PM
is the cel on?

?? what does that mean??

lorakew
03-12-2008, 11:18 PM
Oh Lordy, good thing no one was under that car. I ALWAYS use jack stands.

Ayup, sounds like the fall damaged the hub bearings or bearing races by causing indentations in the rollers and/or races. The uneven surfaces then causes the humming sound as the bearing rollers roll over the indentations. Eventually, it will wear further and get louder, then fail. See about having the hub bearing and races replaced.

Around how much should it cost to replace the hub bearing or races?? I looked up the "races" on an auto parts warehouse website and found this for my car model: "1988-2003 Toyota Camry - ACT Clutch Disc - Race 4 Pad - 236mm." Would this part be used on an automatic??

Brian R.
03-13-2008, 02:18 PM
No, that part is not what you need. That is a 236-mm diameter clutch. You need a set of wheel bearings and bearing races. Although you probably only damaged the races, there is no percentage in putting in new races with old bearings. You probably can't tell if the bearings or the cage are damaged by looking at it.

http://www.camelbacktoyotaparts.com/oem_parts.html
Drill down in Mechanical Parts Catalog menus through 2000-Toyota-Camry-Front Suspension-Suspension Components-Wheel Bearings. $47-$49. Call and use your VIN to get the correct part. Make sure you get a hub and steering knuckle bearing races also. You will have to get an additional part number for the races. You will have to get the old races removed from the hub and knuckle and the new races pressed onto the hub and knuckle at a machine shop or by a mechanic.

You may want to buy a new knuckle instead of buying, removing, and installing the new race. The same may be true for the hub, depending on the prices.

If anyone has better ideas, chime in. I may be FOS.

BTW, cel is "Check Engine Light" which is most likely not relevant.

[Edited for correctness]

lorakew
03-13-2008, 04:29 PM
No, that part is not what you need. That is a 236-mm diameter clutch. You need a set of wheel bearings and bearing races. Although you probably only damaged the races, there is no percentage in putting in new races with old bearings. You probably can't tell if the bearings or the cage are damaged by looking at it.

http://www.camelbacktoyotaparts.com/oem_parts.html
Drill down in Mechanical Parts Catalog menus through 2000-Toyota-Camry-Front Suspension-Suspension Components-Wheel Bearings. $47-$49. Call and use your VIN to get the correct part. Make sure you get a hub and rotor bearing races also. You will have to get an additional part number for the races. You will have to get the old races removed from the hub and rotor and the new races pressed onto the hub and rotor at a machine shop or by a mechanic.

You may want to buy a new rotor instead of buying, removing, and installing the new race into the rotor. The same may be true for the hub, depending on the prices. A rotor is around $94 at Camelback. A hub is $100-$130. Both come with bearing races installed.

If anyone has better ideas, chime in. I may be FOS.

BTW, cel is "Check Engine Light" which is most likely not relevant.

This is very helpful. I took a look at the camelback website.
The Brake Rotor is $70.80 and the Front Hub is around $95.00.
Are these the only 2 parts I need to order?
Should i be buying hub seals, or anything else?

Brian R.
03-13-2008, 05:43 PM
Sorry, my memory was faulty (as I was concerned about above). The rotor has no bearing race. The bearing races are in the steering knuckle and hub.

Check out pages SA-9 to SA-14 in the '99 Camry FSM stickied at the top of this forum.

From the drawing on page SA-9, it looks like you have to buy a dust deflector, cotter pin, and snap ring.

(I corrected the original post so that I don't mislead anyone - and I still may be FOS)

lorakew
03-13-2008, 11:15 PM
Sorry, my memory was faulty (as I was concerned about above). The rotor has no bearing race. The bearing races are in the steering knuckle and hub.

Check out pages SA-9 to SA-14 in the '99 Camry FSM stickied at the top of this forum.

From the drawing on page SA-9, it looks like you have to buy a dust deflector, cotter pin, and snap ring.

(I corrected the original post so that I don't mislead anyone - and I still may be FOS)

I keep trying to download the FSM for the repair manual and it keeps saying "problem loading page". Is this typical... I have tried 3 different times today.

Brian R.
03-14-2008, 12:23 AM
Try downloading from Here (http://www.rocknet.org/Community/FlintLedge/_97-01%20Camry.iso)
Create a CD-ROM from this file with any burner software like Nero.

lorakew
03-14-2008, 03:15 PM
Try downloading from Here (http://www.rocknet.org/Community/FlintLedge/_97-01%20Camry.iso)
Create a CD-ROM from this file with any burner software like Nero.

Thank you. I clicked on the link this morning and it worked. I downloaded the specific PDF's and i will take a look at it tonight.

lorakew
04-29-2008, 06:06 PM
Sorry it took me so long to post... (waiting for finals to be over to do this project)

After looking at the diagram i have one more question:

It looks like after the axle hub, dust cover and knuckle are removed and the new parts are ready to be put in, (the the reassembly instructions) it says that a press needs to be used to press the knuckle and dust cover into the axle hub. is this correct? and if so, who can i get to press it together?
And maybe if i need to eventually get it pressed, i can just buy the bearing + races...hmm

Also,
It seems there are a few specialty tools needed, and i looked up and down at advanced auto parts and autozone for all 3 or 4 parts and they don't have them all. Is there any place you can think of where i can get a loaner tool (or buy one) for this project, specifically the tool to take the axle hub off? The toyota part # SST 0952000031

somick
04-30-2008, 01:53 PM
Sorry it took me so long to post... (waiting for finals to be over to do this project)

After looking at the diagram i have one more question:

It looks like after the axle hub, dust cover and knuckle are removed and the new parts are ready to be put in, (the the reassembly instructions) it says that a press needs to be used to press the knuckle and dust cover into the axle hub. is this correct? and if so, who can i get to press it together?
And maybe if i need to eventually get it pressed, i can just buy the bearing + races...hmm

Also,
It seems there are a few specialty tools needed, and i looked up and down at advanced auto parts and autozone for all 3 or 4 parts and they don't have them all. Is there any place you can think of where i can get a loaner tool (or buy one) for this project, specifically the tool to take the axle hub off? The toyota part # SST 0952000031
I have not done them on Toyotas, but on other vehicles you sometimes are able to knock them out carefully tapping them out with a steel punch and a hammer. In a worst case scenario take them to your local mechanic. Make sure you ask him about a price. The last time I did not ask him and it cost me $90.00.

Good luck,

Sam

lorakew
05-02-2008, 06:31 PM
Just to post an update...

After making a few phone calls for pricing, i have decided to have a local shop press the new bearings in so i can reinstall the knuckle and axle by myself. Funny thing, i called a local shop and asked them about pricing the repair for the bearings, and he said that they send out the the knuckle and hub assembly to Napa to have them do the pressing.

They referred me to the Napa which presses bearings (not all NAPAs do this service), and they quoted me $39.68 to press the front bearings. I'm assuming $39.68 is for both front bearings, however i only need the drivers side done.

Camelback quoted me $52.44 for the bearing, however once shipping is added in, it comes close to the local dealer price. However the i called the dealer and they have it in stock and ready to pick up. I will probably go for the dealer part or the Napa bearing since i'm not willing to wait around... Any suggestions?

Autozone has the loan-a-tool program, where you can look up the loaner tools online that are available. I will rent the tie rod puller, and possibly axle nut socket. I probably won't need the adjustable puller to pull off the axle hub, because the directions say that the knuckle comes off with the axle. Maybe i should get it anyway.

Then i plan to take the knuckle/axle hub assembly to Napa and have them press out the old bearing and press in the new bearing. I'll bring in my suspension/axle repair diagram to ask them about the bearing races.

phew, researching this stuff is tedious... but i like to stretch a penny, AND get the experience:)

lorakew
05-08-2008, 11:45 PM
The Repair Process Has Begun!

I am half way done with the repairs on this bearing.
I was intimidated at first with this repair, but all of the tools required were available for loan at autozone. Slideshow is posted at the bottom of this post.

Tools Loaned from Autozone: Tie Rod End Puller, Flange Axle FWD Puller, 30mm Axle Nut Socket, Torque Wrench.

Bought at Home Depot: Pre-cut 2 ft thick PVC piping $1.89 total. This was used as a breaker bar for my wrachet.

Also purchased: PB Blaster $4.80, rubber mallot $7.00

Remember to keep those loaner receipts!! I also used one of the plastic bags to keep all the nuts and bolts that were removed.

First i removed the center plate covering on the tire rim that covers the axle nut. When you remove that center plate, you'll see a cotter pin, a lock cap, and an axle nut. (refer to SA-9 exploded front axle hub component picture on the FSM) I removed the cotter pin with some needle nose pliers, then removed the lock cap, and then I used a breaker bar to remove the axle nut. Then i took off the lug nuts. I applied the parking break, put the chocks behind the rear wheels and some paving bricks infront of the rear wheels for reinforcement. I then jacked up the car and put it on a jackstand.

Second, I removed the caliper and brake pads, and used pipe cleaners to hang the caliper from the spring (there are 2 holes i threaded the pipe cleaner through on the bottom of the spring). Next i removed the torque plate from the rotor and also removed the ABS sensor connector and moved it out of the way.

My car is 8 or 9 years old (its a 2000 camry that was assembled in 1999) so it's about 9 years old. The rotors have never been changed, and they were stuck on rusted solid onto the axle hub. I sprayed some PB blaster through the 5 pins and let it set for a few minutes. Then I tapped around the center of the rotor (the protruding part with the 5 pins) gently with a rubber mallot. That didn't help any. I wasn't able to remove the rotor (also called the brake disk) SO i moved on... I removed the 2 nuts (just remove the nuts, not the bolts) on the shock absorber. Then i disconnected the tie rod from the steering knuckle using the tie rod puller i rented from autozone. Then towards the bottom lower arm of the knuckle is the lower ball joint where i removed the 2 nuts and 1 bolt (they are arranged in a triangle). After that, i removed the bolts that were left on the shock absorber.

Finally, I was ready to remove the steering knuckle and axle hub (and rotor because it was stuck on the hub). Mind you, this is really heavy because the rotor stuck on the assembly added an extra 10 pounds. I tried wiggling the knuckle/axle hub/rotor assembly off of the front drive shaft but it just wouldn't budge. it felt like i was pulling at the boot (there are 2 accordian-like boots, one is the CV, the other is the front drive shaft) i didn't want to strain any of these boots so i stopped. I ended up mounting the shock absorber bolts back on, and putting the knuckle bolts (not the nuts) back onto the ball joint, and used a flange FWD puller to remove the assembly from the front drive shaft. It worked like a charm!

I removed the knuckle/axle hub/rotor assembly and set it aside. The next day i drove up to Napa and had them remove the old bearing and press in the new bearing. The cost for the press job was $40. The bearing was either $45 or $60, and i think they put in an oil seal. I also purchased cotter pins from the parts department for installation. Cotter pins come in many different sizes, so know your size or bring in the old pins. Grand total $104.80 Tommorrow i will reinstall the knuckle/axle hub/rotor assembly. In the mean time, the caliper is still hanging from pipecleaner wire, and i also suspended the front drive shaft and tie rod with wire, so they don't bend creating any strain.

Advice on removing the rotor/disk:
Napa was able to remove the rotor (disk). I asked him how he got it off, and he said he holds onto the knuckle and with the rotor facing the ground (workbench), he swiftly taps the rotor onto the workbench, being careful not to hit it on an angle damaging the threads on the spokes of the axle hub. It has to hit the workbench surface exactly flat.

click on picture for slideshow

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q254/kewallal/th_100_0272.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q254/kewallal/?action=view&current=a157f160.pbw)

Brian R.
05-09-2008, 12:37 AM
Good job - Make sure you put oil or high temperature grease on all the bolt threads, including the lugs. Thanks for the update.

jdmccright
05-09-2008, 10:37 AM
Oil or grease is not recommended for lugs and threads since that can lower the friction at the threads. Torque specifications are written to accommodate the friction of dry threads. When threads are lubricated, this significantly reduces the torque (as much as 2/3 less) that is needed to properly load the bolt in tension. This can cause overtightening that can lead to breaking a bolt due to overtension.

If you want to reduce the rust that forms on the lugs and between the rotor and hub, here is what I do:

Wire brush as much of the rust on the rotor and hub as you can. I have a power drill that I use a cupped wire brush and 3M abrasive disc for this...plus assorted wire hand brushes.

If the rotors are new or nearly new, you can degrease (they come coated with a rust preventative oil), remove the rust, remove dust residue If they're older and rusted and you don't mind the time, you can remove the surface rust (down to shiny metal if possible)...the more the better.

If you have the correct tap & die, you might chase the lug & nut threads, too, to restore the threads and remove any rust or metal shavings. At the least use a coarse wire brush to get all the rust off the lug studs.

Find a rust preventive paint and spray the inner rotor (or paint the whole rotor minus the pad contact surfaces) and hub faces. I actually used Rustoleum auto primer then use a satin black rust preventative paint (can't remember the brand, but not Rustoleum) that is supposedly good for 2 years. 2 to 3 light coats should be good. Try not to spray the lug threads...it can also act as a lube and will get removed anyways when you reinstall the lug nuts.

A spray zinc primer might be an alternative if you don't mind it's gray color and eventual white corrosion. But it will not hold a topcoat very well if you decide to apply an overcoat.

After it is all dry, take a razor blade and scrape off any overspray from the pad surfaces. Reinstall the rotor and brake assy, tire, then thread the lug nuts on and tighten them as usual.

If you don't have hub caps or plastic wheel covers, then now you can give the exposed lug threads a light shot of the rust preventative paint. No sense in soaking them since you'll likely be removing them in short time anyways...just enough to keep rust away until the next service interval.

BTW, if you still cannot get the rotors or drums off, there are two small threaded holes that you can thread two 8x1.25mm bolts (~ 1-1/2" length) into and slowly turn to pop them loose.

Hope this helps!

Brian R.
05-09-2008, 11:03 AM
Oil or grease is not recommended for lugs and threads since that can lower the friction at the threads. Torque specifications are written to accommodate the friction of dry threads. When threads are lubricated, this significantly reduces the torque (as much as 2/3 less) that is needed to properly load the bolt in tension. This can cause overtightening that can lead to breaking a bolt due to overtension.

I will investigate this further. This is not what I was taught as a mechanic.

jdmccright
05-09-2008, 12:05 PM
Allow me to clarify my post as in no way do I wish to step on anyone's toes, but I have dealt with bolt torque issues in my line of work. So, I felt it necessary to give my 2 cents.

There are, in some circumstances, where a repair or rebuild will require the use of lubed threads to achieve the proper amount of bolt preload without subjecting the bolt itself to too much torque. When this is required, it is usually stated to use an "assembly lube" or similar in the repair instructions.

However, wheel lug nuts are not one of those circumstances. I haven't seen a repair manual yet that states that lube is needed on a wheel lug. If this were the case, then vehicle owner's manuals would recommend lubing the lugs when changing or rotating the tires and would pack a tube of grease with the tire jack.

However, if you feel it necessary to use a lube or anti-seize compound, then the final torque applied must be reduced by the correct amount to prevent overtightening and/or rotor warpage...this factor is dependent on the type of lube used, but will be the ratio of the coefficients of friction of the lubed surfaces over the unlubed surfaces.

Brian R.
05-09-2008, 01:28 PM
Your opinion is noted. I will investigate this issue. I don't want you or me to give anyone the wrong information. This may be one of those cases where there are at least two different schools of thought and I need to explore this further.

Edit: I have started a thread for comments on this issue, then moved it with a redirect to the Engineering forum for comments from them.

lorakew
05-09-2008, 03:13 PM
all of the advice is appreciated!

I finished off this repair this morning. After picking up the pressed knuckle/hub assembly from Napa, i just installed everything just as i had removed it. Keep in mind, the loan-a-tools that i got from Autozone totalled about $120, but i get all of my money back when i return the tools with my receipt.

One thing i did notice that was very concerning was that when i removed the tie rod, it just came up without any need to use a puller. Yes, before you take the tie rod out, you have to remove a cotter pin and nut, then you attach a puller to help pull the tie rod up and out from the knuckle. However, i didn't even need the puller to take the tie rod out, i used my hand and it came out without any resistance....

is that bad?

I test drove my car this afternoon after everything was torqued up, and i noticed that the steering wheel still shakes slightly.... i didn't hear the humming at high speeds around 70mph. There was a slight hum around 40 mph....

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