SilvrEclipse's Motor Build


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SilvrEclipse
02-11-2008, 03:07 PM
Some of you may already know that I picked up a motor a few weeks ago to rebuild and drop in the eclipse. Im shooting to have the motor assembled and ready to drop in the first of July. So far Im not sure if that will happen as the funds are harder to get during school. But as of right now the project is still on schedule.

Here are some pics when I first got the motor home.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/0106081631a.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/0106081630a.jpg

Here it is after removing the intake and exhaust.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2442.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2444.jpg

I went this weekend and pulled the head off and the pistons out. I wanted to remove the crank but ran out of time. The guy told me that this motor was running when it was pulled out. I pulled the rod caps off and found 2 spun bearing... doesn't look so 'running' to me. They weren't extremely damaged so the motor must not have been ran long afterwards. The crank didn't look to be in bad shape so hopefully I can use it.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2452.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2454.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2457.jpg

david-b
02-11-2008, 03:33 PM
YAY!!!

I've been waiting for this thread for a while now. Good luck. Damn that's a quick deadline. That should be like a double punch in the balls to Brian.

JoeShmoe
02-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Thats what I'm talking about. I like the pictures, how much did you spend on the engine?

wrightz28
02-11-2008, 04:19 PM
:yikes: there sure was alot of fuel getting in those cylinders.

SilvrEclipse
02-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Thats what I'm talking about. I like the pictures, how much did you spend on the engine?

I got the motor for $250. Some more parts are coming in this week so I will have more pics soon.

vanilla gorilla
02-11-2008, 11:07 PM
Awesome! I wish I had enough money to build my spare block..:(

Thor06
02-12-2008, 04:34 PM
Oh how cute, the 420a is trying to be fast!

david-b
02-12-2008, 04:40 PM
Hey... we got MazdaX, Silver, and one of these days Me going through rebuilds. We will take over zee world!

wrightz28
02-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Oh how cute, the 420a is trying to be fast!

Ok, seriously, I'm noting the amount a varnish on the piston skirts and the red taint on the exhaust manifold is quite excessive, IE rich as hell mixture IMO, no??? :dunno:

david-b
02-12-2008, 04:51 PM
Ok, seriously, I'm noting the amount a varnish on the piston skirts and the red taint on the exhaust manifold is quite excessive, IE rich as hell mixture IMO, no??? :dunno:

The pistons do look burnt. Looks pretty rich, but still in decent shape though. Doesn't look melted at all. Just a little crispy around the edges.

wrightz28
02-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Well normally what happens is that much fuel, wipes out the oil protecting the side walls of the cylinders, leaveing the rings scoring the walls sending metal shavings through the oiling system in which the oil is already thinned out due to the gasoline and thus some pretty good amount of damage to bearings and galleys as a result. I'd be a little nervous. :eek:

SilvrEclipse
02-12-2008, 07:13 PM
The cylinder walls are actually in really good shape. The block wouldn't need to be bored if it weren't for my 20 over pistons.

And thor is just jealous cause that he has an ugly yard orniment instead of a sexy 2g.

MazdaX
02-12-2008, 07:25 PM
The cylinder walls are actually in really good shape. The block wouldn't need to be bored if it weren't for my 20 over pistons.

And thor is just jealous cause that he has an ugly yard orniment instead of a sexy 2g.


Oh snaps XD

Make sure you build the head to match the bottom. Unfortunately ..I am not going to port polish route on the exhats side since the channel is so small anyways it won't make a difference. My headguy said he was doing a 420A head once and the hump for the valve on the exhaust side is part of the water jacket and he barely touched it and ground right through :/

Looks like a good motor for the most part. If the crank has scars on it you can get it polished and all that jazz and have it fixed but if they are too deep it may compromise structual and harmonic integrity strength and that would suck to snap a crank.

I could have gotten you a cleaned block bored .020 for 200.00 with crank , main cap and all inbetween =P

SilvrEclipse
02-12-2008, 07:33 PM
The head is just getting a valve job done to it, it wont be ported or cammed. The stock heads flows well and the cams are not bad for a turbo car. Im not trying to get a whole lot of power out of this thing. Not need to with fwd so getting every little hp is not a big deal in my case.

Mazda - How much was it to ship that motor? I wanted one that I could go pick up.

MazdaX
02-12-2008, 10:12 PM
One of mine ? Probably about 65-85.00 ish. I've never shipped a block and Dave was going to be my first but he's not ready for it yet I guess.

Also depending on which state you are in and which comapny I use my discount with =P

SilvrEclipse
02-12-2008, 10:17 PM
So it would have cost me more and I wouldn't have gotten a head with it. Its not that big of a deal since Im just going to sell mine once I get this one in.

I was looking at the head tonight, I think I may port the intake manifold some and port the intake side of the head a little. Just gasket match it and smooth the intake some.

Thor06
02-13-2008, 12:45 AM
And thor is just jealous cause that he has an ugly yard orniment instead of a sexy 2g.
Hey mine runs, and it runs faster than yours I might add. :thefinger

:smooch:

JoeShmoe
02-13-2008, 09:06 AM
And thor is just jealous cause that he has an ugly yard orniment instead of a sexy 2g.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

david-b
02-14-2008, 11:40 AM
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2444.jpg


Did you crack the IM mounts there? I did when I did my head swap. Those things are impossible to get loose when in the bay and it looks like they were destroyed here too.

gthompson97
02-14-2008, 12:00 PM
Make sure you build the head to match the bottom. Unfortunately ..I am not going to port polish route on the exhats side since the channel is so small anyways it won't make a difference. My headguy said he was doing a 420A head once and the hump for the valve on the exhaust side is part of the water jacket and he barely touched it and ground right through :/

I did quite a bit of porting on the RS and haven't had any problems yet. You just have to be careful and decide when enough is enough.

Did you crack the IM mounts there? I did when I did my head swap. Those things are impossible to get loose when in the bay and it looks like they were destroyed here too.

They don't look busted to me. Mine were easy as hell to get off, but I've had the motor out so many damn times so they're pretty broke in now, but I don't remember having a hard time when I first pulled the motor.

SilvrEclipse
02-15-2008, 11:35 AM
Dave - Are you talking about the metal brackets the support the intake mani? Nothin cracked when I was taking the motor apart.

david-b
02-15-2008, 11:42 AM
Ya the black brackets. Looks like the holes that connect to the IM are busted. I could be wrong apparently though.

SilvrEclipse
02-15-2008, 11:45 AM
Yea the holes aren't suppose to be all the way around. I think they are made like that so you can just loosen the bolts and pull the mani off with out taking the bolts completely out.

JoeShmoe
02-18-2008, 07:28 AM
Any update?

SilvrEclipse
02-18-2008, 08:38 AM
My eagle rods came in the mail. They were sent to my other house so no pics. I got the head completely disassembled and cleaned pretty well. Working on porting the intake mani right now. Pics will be up this afternoon.

JoeShmoe
02-18-2008, 11:21 AM
My eagle rods came in the mail. They were sent to my other house so no pics. I got the head completely disassembled and cleaned pretty well. Working on porting the intake mani right now. Pics will be up this afternoon.
Sweet

SilvrEclipse
02-18-2008, 04:53 PM
UPDATE:

I have been working on porting the intake manifold lately, I finally found a good bit to use that really cuts through the aluminum. I have only finished porting the hole on the left. Once I get done porting everything I will go back and polish everything.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2462.jpg?t=1203371349

You cant really see how much the porting has opened things up, you can see how much material has been removed from the humps under the injectors. I have no idea what they are even there for.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2465.jpg?t=1203371373

This is how the head looks after cleaning it up some.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2467.jpg?t=1203371479

The only thing left to remove from the head are the valve stem seals. Whats the best way to remove these? Everyone says just pull them off but these SOBs are stuck on there good.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2469.jpg?t=1203371526

JoeShmoe
02-18-2008, 10:06 PM
3/8 socket extension backwards and a hammer.

SilvrEclipse
02-18-2008, 10:45 PM
3/8 socket extension backwards and a hammer.


Uhh a hammer?? I just want to remove the seals. Do I really need to take the valve guides out completely? I wasn't planning on replacing them.

JoeShmoe
02-18-2008, 11:02 PM
I would think you would have to remove them as well, wait, I thought the 420A did not have guides???? I mean if you already have the seals, just beat them outta there IMO.

SilvrEclipse
02-18-2008, 11:20 PM
Alright I just got all of the seals out. You have to grip them with pliers and twist and pull really hard. The little room makes it so difficult.

MazdaX
02-19-2008, 02:50 AM
I used needle nose and a little elbow and mine came out no problem.

xavier3jr
02-19-2008, 04:26 AM
I left my valve guids in place when i rebuilt my head. but yes you do need to replecae the seals i just took a pair of needle nose pliars and moved em around untill they poped out.

david-b
02-19-2008, 09:41 AM
Dido. Guides can stay in unless they're damaged. But that's nearly impossible to do. I kept mine in when did my head. So did the machine shop. He recommended actually keeping them in since they were fine. I was about dish out more money for new ones too.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 10:34 AM
Dave - What all did the machine shop do to your head? Im going to order a new set of valves for the head so all the head should need is to have the valve seats regrinded right?

david-b
02-19-2008, 10:45 AM
The machine shop:
-Ported and polished the head and IM
-Flattened it
-Hot tanked
-3-angle valve job. Also seated valves and did work to them so they fit right
-Checked guides for damage and would've replaced if needed.

I think that was it.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 11:31 AM
Ok thanks Dave.

Once I order my new valves I will take the head in to get some work done on it. Im trying to have as little done at the machine shop to keep the cost down.

Well back to porting the intake mani. The lower half should be finished today.

david-b
02-19-2008, 11:32 AM
Are you going with stock valves or anything special?

If the machine shop doesn't ask for the valves when you get a valve job, take it someplace else.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 11:49 AM
I am just going with stock valves. Yea I know that they need the valves when I give them the head. I will hopefully have the valves soon, it may be a few weeks before I can get the head to a shop, going to finish porting it first.

david-b
02-19-2008, 12:02 PM
Are you going with cams or anything non-OEM? You never really gave a break-down on the head build. Actually thought you were going to leave it as-is.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 12:45 PM
I haven't even given a list of what was going to be put into the motor. As the parts arrive I will be filling yall in.

If Im going to be rebuilding the motor Im at least going to have everything new for the most part. I wouldn't put an old head on a new bottom end.

The head is just being rebuild. New valves, seals, stock cams/springs. I am doing a mild port/polish job on the intake mani, exhaust mani, and head. Basically just gasket matching everything.

The stock head flows pretty well. The intake side isin't bad at all, the exhaust can be opened up a good bit I believe.

david-b
02-19-2008, 12:53 PM
Ah I see, leaving us in the dark. Nice

I know the stock flows well, which is why I was wondering if it was going to be a stocker or not? I figured you'd get new stuff for it since you're doing a rebuild ;)

I know again, good flowing, but why keeping stock cams? With the power you want to put down and being turbo, even just a little better cams (Crower Stage 1) would help a little. I got the Stage 2 and they feel really nice in there.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 01:58 PM
The stock cams really aren't that bad for a turbo application. Some people upgrade them but there really just isin't much power gain there. And certainly not enough to justify the cost. Maybe one day I will but not right now.

david-b
02-19-2008, 02:26 PM
What $500+ too expensive nowadays? :lol: It just seems like since it's open and you're in there, may as well do it. That's how I see it. But then again, cams aren't a lot of work to swap out when it's all together anyways.

Is this just a motor build, no other body, tranny, electrical... work at all?

Need more pics.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 03:10 PM
Its just a motor project right now. Im working on getting it built and put it in and hopefully no problems will occur.

My fuel will support up to 13psi right now, once the motor is in and I sell the old one I will be putting that money toward megasquirt, 1:1 FPR, and 650cc injectors. Then I plan on putting a 16g or 20g turbo on it.

And yes 500 is expensive when I will only have a little over a grand in this built motor.

david-b
02-19-2008, 03:22 PM
I want to play with MegaSquirt so bad. I almost bought it a couple months back and installed N/A just to play with it. Wouldn't have done much, but would have been fun as hell. I take it eManage won't allow for the higher boost?

With that fuel setup you should be able to run 20-25psi on that built motor then right? Or like 15psi DD, 20psi+ track? Any ideas on that yet?

Good job on all that being alittle over a grand right now. My head was nearly 2k completed.

SilvrEclipse
02-19-2008, 03:50 PM
Emanage is a very good piggy back system. For a little over the price of a SAFC it blows it out of the water. The problem is that I cant control ignition timing with it. I did build a circuit that did allow me to controll the timing but I had problems with the spark blowing out with boost.

With the new fuel system I will run about 12psi daily and probably 18-20psi for when I want to go fast. That will be on the 14b though, once I get a bigger turbo on there it will be around 22psi I would think.

EDIT - 2k post

JoeShmoe
02-19-2008, 06:43 PM
My head was nearly 2k completed.
Yeah, that sounds about correct. Isn't the idle too lumpy with the stage 2?

vanilla gorilla
02-19-2008, 10:10 PM
Isn't the idle too lumpy with the stage 2?

lol, I hope so. Cam chop is so pimpin!

david-b
02-20-2008, 11:20 AM
lol, I hope so. Cam chop is so pimpin!

Ya it is!!! When it sits there going da da da da da da. It's sexy. I've taken the SAFC and dropped 1000rpm to a low setting and it can sit there doing that all day. Just have to make sure not to do it too lean though. But you get the point.

They sounds really aggressive too when driving fast. Like hit the gas at 4k, it moves and sounds sweet.

JoeShmoe
02-20-2008, 12:34 PM
All right, I have to look at your video again Dave.:smokin:

david-b
02-20-2008, 12:47 PM
You really can't hear it in there. That was taken with my camera. Not the greatest. You can feel it in the car though.

I want to take some in-car videos one of these days. Show what some real N/A power looks like.

JoeShmoe
02-20-2008, 01:14 PM
K, how much of difference was it between your stock head and then after the $2k?

david-b
02-20-2008, 01:44 PM
I lost a little low end. You can tell that right off that bat. Have to drag the clutch out a little more than usual to keep it from bogging down hard. There were significant gains though. You can really feel it pull through. Also changes the sound of the motor then too with the better flow going through. But if I punch it in 1-3rdd gear at 4000 or so there's some good power. Damn I really want to take some videos now. lol. I really need to get dynoed which I'm hoping the South meet will do. Or somewhere at least. We'll see though.

JoeShmoe
02-20-2008, 03:40 PM
So no more shifting at 2k? Gas is ridiculous.

david-b
02-20-2008, 04:06 PM
So no more shifting at 2k? Gas is ridiculous.

You can, but it's really hard to. If you don't plan on moving for awhile, then you still can. But it'll sit there for awhile. I usually shift at around 3k now or so. I believe those cams are good from ~3-7k rpm. The stage 1 (IIRC) go down to like 1500rpm or so still so you keep the low end, but they're less aggressive.

SilvrEclipse
02-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Who shifts at 2k?? If I shift that low my car goes no where. I shift around 3k if im just driving normal.

david-b
02-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Who shifts at 2k?? If I shift that low my car goes no where. I shift around 3k if im just driving normal.

It's possible to. I do if I'm just cruising along with no one around. Or if I'm drunk, or if I'm right by a cop. I like to keep the exhaust down quiet then. I'm not going to call attention to myself by shifting at 5k with a cop behind/next to me.

JoeShmoe
02-20-2008, 04:43 PM
It's possible to. I do if I'm just cruising along with no one around. Or if I'm drunk, or if I'm right by a cop. I like to keep the exhaust down quiet then. I'm not going to call attention to myself by shifting at 5k with a cop behind/next to me.

I like shifting at 2k, almost all the time. And when there is a cop beside me I maek it a point to shift hard and loud. They can't pull you over in FL for just being loud. They can however tach that shit on if they pull you over for something else, like for no seatbelt and then tach on, too loud, non OEM muffler,etc. So I like doing it on purpose:lol2: .

vanilla gorilla
02-20-2008, 10:52 PM
I cant shift at 2k...makes me feel like I boggin the motor...my car likes to be shifted at 3k while cruising

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