Front speakers and Head Unit

so ive decided to just make a new thread since no one is gonna reply to one that already 4 pages long (i dont know if this is against the rules or anything lol, if it is just delete this)
anyway i just wanted to say that this forum is really great about helping people out and night b****ing at eachother the whole time you guys did great with helping me with audio stuff and deciding on a car in the first place haha

ive decide just to upgrade the whole cars audio after seeing that i can save like 500 dollars installing myself and buying off ebay, my question is after i have decided on a head unit how do i get it into my dash im pretty sure i have to take out my whole dash cuz its all one unit (o6 accord ex-l 6-disc changer) so are there any kits out there that wont make it look like crap i still need to keep all my climate control stuff??

seconly is how do i get my tweeters out if anyone is familiar with the accord they are literally a half an inch under my windshield do i have to go from underneath?

and my still standing question lol, why would the audio guy quote me for JL a1200 amp for the 12w3v3 subs the amp is a full range amp??

like i said if this is stupid or against the rules to make a new thread just delete it haha
thanx guys

edit: wow how hard is it to install all this yourself i just read through the thread at the top and im really confused, the big three" wiring thing i get what it is for but do you need it if you have a 600 watt sub and just new speakers and a new head unit??

http://bestkits.com/SearchResults.aspx?mk=Honda&mkid=12&md=Accord&mdid=1038&yrg=2003%20-%202007

Thats your dash kit there, don't know about how you'd get the tweeters out. As far as the big 3, if you're only running 600 watts and speakers, it shouldnt be a problem especially on a new accord. you could probably do even more and not have to worry about it yet.

You usually don't have to worry about upgrading your electrical components until around 1k continuous RMS, on most vehicles. The Blazer has proven to handle like 1300 watts before the big 3 would be needed really.

I would get a Chilton or Haynes manual for your car on how to remove things like the dash and door panels. Chilton's books may be available for free through your local library, in print or online.

you will definitely need the climate control stuff. I have 01 Accord, you will need a kit to fill in the rest of the dash space unless you get a double din unit. For the tweeters in the dash, mine just popped out (with a little prying using a small flathead screwdriver).

there is nothing particularly "wrong" with using a full range amp for bass speakers. We did this for like 20 years before class D amps came along. The two reasons you usually don't want to use full range amps is they are more expensive and consume more power from your car's electrical system than a Class D of comparable output power.

The big 3 are not a "MUST DO" thing, they are an additional thing that help your amps get max power AND reduce a little of the stress on your electrical system.

ive decide just to upgrade the whole cars audio after seeing that i can save like 500 dollars installing myself and buying off ebay, my question is after i have decided on a head unit how do i get it into my dash im pretty sure i have to take out my whole dash cuz its all one unit (o6 accord ex-l 6-disc changer) so are there any kits out there that wont make it look like crap i still need to keep all my climate control stuff??

and my still standing question lol, why would the audio guy quote me for JL a1200 amp for the 12w3v3 subs the amp is a full range amp??

edit: wow how hard is it to install all this yourself i just read through the thread at the top and im really confused, the big three" wiring thing i get what it is for but do you need it if you have a 600 watt sub and just new speakers and a new head unit??

You DONT need the big 3, however, I will say, it never hurts. For now, it will help you if you decide to upgrade amps.

You can have a custom made dash kit made to suit your application if you want. IF not, you can buy one that will just work. As to wheter they make ones that suit your app, I dunno ? You woudl have to check, or call a local radio place and see if they can custom taylor what you need.

As to the full range amp, it is cappable of playing the lower frequencies, hence its category of "full Range". With the touch of a cross over , you will have a sub amp so to speak.

As for the install, it varies from car to car. The hardest part will be takin off door panels etc. .. . Also, though not reallly required, a good electrical back ground helps alot. It can be done withought, if you have time to do it and the right tools. But if your experienced, go for it. Maybe have a friend help you, and if you have ANY doubts or questions, ASK, it can only save your equipment (LOL). :popcorn:

alright cool thanx guys, i think im gonna try to install all of it myself i have a friend thats pretty good at that stuff, how hard is it to build you own ported box i was told it was better for like Rap/Rock or should i just buy it??

A prefab ported box definitely isn't a good idea. Is your friend good at carpentry also? If you gotta buy a prefab box, buy a sealed one. Its the lesser of three evils.

no prolly not at carpeting but i can prolly build the box if i see how i do it but i know the actual carpeting job is gonna be crappy then its gonna get hot in my trunk and like all the glue is gonna melt and i will have to staple the carpet down and it will look like **** lol

or it could be alot easier than that haha, if it is i could prolly figure out how to make a ported box, is it even worth it?

I meant carpentry, wood making. Does your friend do many custom boxes? Have him help you out if he does. Yes its worth it. Making your own box is always, always, always, always the best way to go to get the best sound out of any sub.

yeah i knew you meant carpeting like woodworking but i was talking abou the actual carpet that is gonna look like crap i think it will get hot and the glue will melt or something, no he doesnt do any costom boxes, if i make one do i just make the box to the demensions on JL's web site or is there somewere else.

i might just make one to see if i can and if i screw it up just buy one haha

Carpeting the box is simple. I usually make the end peices of my boxes recessed like .5 inch to give it a little lip to carry it by and it looks nice. To carpet it all you need is 3M spray adhesive either the High strengtt 90 or super 77 I think it is. Then order some carpet from partsexpress.com. Search google for how to carpet tutorial.

**** carpet tutorial http://www.teamtoxicbass.com/literature/tutorials/carpeting_101/index.htm

so do i just build the box in accordance to the JL website or is there somewere better to look? is there anywhere to find the manuals online for free that you know of?

Id say the manufacturer is best. Dude even if you mess up like 3 or 4 boxes, it STILL cheaper than buying one premade. So get some tools and try it out, materials are pretty cheap. Dont cut yourself and DONT RUSH. The slower you go the better it will turn out. I think crutchfield has a step by step guide on boxbuilding.

yeah cool thanx i might just buy and build a box even before i even buy the sub, do i just cut it with a circular saw... im not a total dumb a** with tools i basically build everything that needs to be assembled in the house haha.. its like $26 for like a 6X5 sheet

edit: can you explain the rms things, the w3v3 page says the optimal rms is 300w and the max is 600w. so do i want an amp that puts out 300 or 600w ?? if i get a higher watt one how do i regulate it so i done play it on 600watts say on a road trip and catch my amp on fire?? lol

stereos have an ingenious power regulation device, it's called a volume control. Remember, a 600 watt amp does NOT put out 600 watts all the time. The are also input sensitivity controls on an amp that help match the amp to the rest of the stereo.

Yes you can use a circular saw to build the box, but you better be REAL good at cutting straight lines (or like sanding a lot). A better choice is a table saw if you have access to one. You will also need a circular saw or router to cut the hole(s) in the top board for the sub(s) and any ports.

Always trust the manufacturers recomendations for box and port sizes, at least for a good starting point. They designed the sub and have a vested interest in making it sound the best. An experienced box maker may be able to tweak it a little to sound best in your application.

yeah thats what i mean, if i have it a 600w amp hooked up to it i dont want it at 600w all day so how do i regulate that, just turn the volume down on the stereo??

would a place like home depo or lowes were i buy the sheet of fiber board cut the right size squares out of it for me??

yeah thats what i mean, if i have it a 600w amp hooked up to it i dont want it at 600w all day so how do i regulate that, just turn the volume down on the stereo??

would a place like home depo or lowes were i buy the sheet of fiber board cut the right size squares out of it for me??

Exactly you just turn down the volume and the power goes down. You'll only get 600w if you crank it, otherwise you just keep it down...

i dont think HD and lowes do cutting, maybe it depends on the store, the ones around here don't. you should call them and ask if they do the cuts for you

yeah im gonna go over there and ask... is there any way to i can wire it so i can open everything up all the way and play it all day without anything catching on fire lol, just so i can be safe?? i can just see my dad taking my car while im gone and try to be cool and test everything out while he drives somewhere and just destroyes everything lol

the fuse on the power wire will keep it from catching fire. Almost all modern amps have protection circuitry that shuts off the amp if the power line is shorted or drawing too much power, if the speaker wires get shorted (or the load is too low) or if the amp overheats.

The sensitivity knob(s) on the amp, eq, cossover, etc ... will allow you to set the system so at full volume on the CD player, the system will be playing at full volume - but not enough to blow anything up. This type of tuning takes some time and practice.

HD and Lowes can cut a lot more accurately than they lead on to .... but you have to stay on them. One of the guys I see at comps gets his box parts cut there all the time. The disclaimer on the rip saw is probably for idiots that don't know how to measure what they really want the first time.

yeah i want to get it so full volume means full volume i can play forever not full volume that i can blow everything in my can if im not carful, so thats do able??

so are you saying that lowes and HD can do a good job at cutting to specific demension or not

they can, but you need to CAREFULLY mark and cut it.

Yes, but tuning takes a little time and effort to learn how to do.

o should i buy it and take it home to mark it ?? can i not tell them the length i want and have them cut it?

you can mark it there .... I am just saying to make your plans carefully. Remember to mark it after every cut and cut on the "outside" of every measurement. If you cut it down the middle, it will always be off just a little because of the width of the saw blade.

yeah i just went and got the fiber board and had to use my neighbors table saw to cut the right sizes... ill take some pictures when im done and show you guys my hard work lol

ill ask you guys any question i have once i start tearing my car apart to wire it haha

hey im buying all my stuff off ebay right now... what amp would you guys suggest im totally lost for that, ive already tried doing a search for it on the forum.. im looking at alpine and kenwood any suggestions

would the kenwood kac-x10D be overpowering its max power is 1200W

Depends on the sub you get. If you have a sub that is either single 2 ohm or dual voice coil 4 ohm then you want an amp that puts out the sub's RMS wattage at 2 ohms. For example I have an Alpine Type X sub 1000W RMS that is configured for dual 4 ohm. When bridged this is reduced to a 2 ohm load. My amp puts out 850 watts x 1channel @ 2 ohms. So Im just under the recommended wattage. As long as you stick with a good name, and its not too cheap you should be fine. Alpine is ok, JL etc. or any of the high end brands are a good choice. Try to buy from wholesalers with good feedback as opposed to individuals. Less risky.

yeah i just bought a JL 12w3v3 sub its 4Ohms but i dont know if its dual voice coil, i dont know if you do or not?

my friend recomended a Rockford Fosgate amp? any opinion?

hey whats up wanted to throw it out there the easiest way to determine on the necessity of upgrading power components is not from the wattage output its basic from the amperage draw it put on the system youll run into a bunch of pipeline amps that say there 1200 watts rms (root means square) but only draw 80 amps so simplist solution is look at the amp look at the fuses add them most true 1000 watt amp has (4) 25 FUSES so ure drawing 100 amps as well is a need to upgrade due to most alternators put out 110-150 amps

jonb if ya goe with a fosgate amp id go with a rockford fosgate t2001bd its a bad mutha haha its 2000 wats rms but only down fall is it draws 250 amps

hey i built my box according to specs on JL but they dont add up it says it wants 1.75 cubic feet for the box but if you add it up it adds up to like 2.46 or something after you subtract everything inside.. so what i built to big of a box or what ... here are the dementions make sure to look at the ported box part its at the bottom. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs_enclusure.php?series_id=26

another question is after you carpet the box what is the best way to cut out the space for the port and circle for the sub, the port more importantly so it doesnt look hacked up
thanks

hey those instructions are pretty cut throat if built using that it will come together as well i use a perfect cirle attachment on the router for the sub hole. an if youre gunna be usin this sub under a huge constant load i would fiber galss all the inside joints just for extra support cause jl does make one hell of a driver .. :werd:

hey whats up wanted to throw it out there the easiest way to determine on the necessity of upgrading power components is not from the wattage output its basic from the amperage draw it put on the system youll run into a bunch of pipeline amps that say there 1200 watts rms (root means square) but only draw 80 amps so simplist solution is look at the amp look at the fuses add them most true 1000 watt amp has (4) 25 FUSES so ure drawing 100 amps as well is a need to upgrade due to most alternators put out 110-150 amps

Ummm ...... that's a big cup of NO. The actual current an amp draws has little to do with the fusing, the fusing values are set for the protection of the amp. If you have ever competed in MECA this would become readily apparent, since they use fusing to determine class placement. I have seen guys burp their amps at full SPL comp power with fuses like 1/2 the specified size.

hey i built my box according to specs on JL but they dont add up it says it wants 1.75 cubic feet for the box but if you add it up it adds up to like 2.46 or something after you subtract everything inside.. so what i built to big of a box or what ... here are the dementions make sure to look at the ported box part its at the bottom. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs_enclusure.php?series_id=26

another question is after you carpet the box what is the best way to cut out the space for the port and circle for the sub, the port more importantly so it doesnt look hacked up
thanks

yo do know you have to subtract the ENTIRE volume of the port, including the interior wall for it - right ?

o really? ok, no i just subtracted the volume of the wood that made the pathway inside not the whole pathway... thank you so much haha i was afraid that i made a worthless box lol

any help with what amps work well with the W3V3, and wires/ wire kits?

If you are gona go with a fosgate amp, don't get the 07 punch series. The stuff seems to fall apart too easily. As far as wiring goes, I'd use just the standard 4ga wire. No need for anything bigger.

if the two subs are rated for 300 RMS each, look for a class D amp with 500-750 watts RMS into the load you plan on having

its just one sub so should i still look for 500 W rms or something less?

what impedance is the speaker ? They come in 2, 4 and 8 ohm versions

4 ohm resistance, why?

o and when you put the sub in the box what size wire do you use to wire the sub to the terminal box or whatever on the back of the box, and what kinda caulking do you use around the sub? i know its non hardening but any brand i had trouble finding it a Home Depo or lowes

Wiring, you can use standard 16ga speaker wire or whatever you pick up from your local bestbuy for the inside of the box. The impedence of the speaker determines how much power it will pull out of the amp. Most amps typically put out more power at a lower impedence, so a hypothetical amp with 500w RMS at 4ohms might put out say 750 RMS at 2ohms. In this case you have to look at an amp which puts out 500w at 4ohms, to match your speaker impedence and power demands.

I agree with the power recommendations but the wiring sounds kinda skimpy to me, I usually use 12 Ga or bigger for subs

ok so i use 12 gauge wire for the inside of the box, same from the box to the amp?
and then is there some sort of wireing kit that will give me all the wires needed for the amp and the new head unit, and what about the new 6x9s?

so for my speaker i need to find a amp that does 300 rms at 4 ohms correct?

edit: so if a JL amp spec say this
"300 W RMS x 1 @ 3 ohm-8 ohm (11V-14.5V)"
it doesnt say at 4ohms exactly tho?

also the rockfordfosgate T500-1bd amp says 250 w @ 4ohms rms, a friend said they are usually rated at less watts then they actually can produce at the given load?

the JL amp will provide the same power to any speaker load from 3 to 8 ohms.

what you do with the 6x9's is mostly dependent on where they are getting their power from.

the wiring kit will have a 12V wire to go to the battery along with a fuse and holder, a short gnd wire, the RCA cables and maybe an auto turn-on wire.

The RF amp will not be nearly as efficient with a 4 ohm load (as it would be with a 1 or 2 ohm load)

so you think the JL amp is a good bet? or not

should i just get any sub wiring kit (when you say 12v wire is that 4gauge?) is there one for the amp also or will one kit have it all

the 6x9s are just going to be hooked up to the new head unit for now

yes, the 12v wire is the one that goes to the battery. The gauge of the wire will be determined by the amp size of the kit.

im still kinda confused on the amp thing? do i just look for any amp that does close to 300wrms at 4 ohms and i dont have to worry about anything else like if its mono block or full range or anything?

edit:
im looking right now, so far ive looked at:
kenwood KAC-8104D - 300wrms at 4 ohms - $128
JL 300/2v2 - 300wrms at a bunch or ohms- too expensive
Alpine MRP-M500 (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=MRP-M500) - 300 rms as well

any help on other amps that are sill notable but not as expensive as JL

You'll likely want a monoblock. Those ones you listed there would work I think.

would you guys recomend kenwood or alpine from the amp standpoint?

I'd definately take alpine. Much better company for car audio.

im trying to buy a kenwood KDC-X692, its like 220 normal price but i know i can find it cheaper what are sites that sell audio stuff at wholesale... ebay doesnt have it either it only has the next step up from it

it may be an older unit ... or a newer unit that hasn't made it to ebay yet. Try just googling the amp model number.