Ok, so how neurotic is a problem (in terms of car finishes...)??

Ok, so I will post pics when I get home later this evening or tomorrow that will try and show what I'm talking about.

My question is this--after sanding and following all advice and using the sanding and polishing guidelines people have taught me (2400-12000 grits, tamiya polishes and the treatment wax), there still are a few *very* small scratches noticable in a harsh, direct light. (There are not a lot of them that persist.) However, with a scattered light (like from a flourescent bulb) source, the scratches are not visible. The paint is ultra smooth.

In terms of judging in a contest, would these "fine" scratches be a negative? If so, how does one go about getting rid of them? I do not use the Tamiya Coarse polish, only the fine and finish ones. What do you guys suggest? I'd like to go to a show, but I'd like to be prepared for what judges might look for...

Thanks!

Daniel

EDIT: I use Tamiya lacquers to paint and TS13 to clear. 4 layers of TS13 were put down via rattle can.

How long did you allow the paint to dry before you polished?

As paint dries, it shrinks, if you polish too soon the fine scratches may widen as it continues to dry.

I waited ~48 hours, all in front of a dehumidifier (tends to speed drying time).

The problem is that I just can't seem to get all of the scratches out. Kinda strange. I figure I must be doing something wrong...

Daniel

Sounds all too familiar. It's exactly what happens with the Micromesh "coarse to fine" approach. The early sandings with coarse grit seem to remove the OP and smooth the finish, but they actually leave a deep scratch pattern that only becomes visible several grits "down." Or even after polishing. To get rid of those deep scratches, you have to work down through the tedious coarse-to-fine process once again. Or twice again. Or...?

It's an exercise in frustration and a waste of time that can be easily avoided by going directly to Tamiya Coarse compound, or, if you've done a really good job of applying the paint, Tamiya Fine.

Ddms

Could be the cloth you are using.I had the same problem myself a while back so I switched to a high end microfibre cloth (used for 1:1 auto detailing) and now I don't get the fine scratches anymore.Or it could be that you are using too coarse a sanding cloth to begin with.2400 seems a little rough to me to be honest.I usually start with 6000,then 8000 and finally 12000 before I switch to the microfibre cloth with the compounds or polishes.When you say you start with 2400 then work through the grades to 12000 do you do this because you have to? Are you trying to remove a particular problem like 'orange peel' for instance? If your paint is pretty good to start with you may not need to use the rougher grades at all and could possibly start on the finer grades from the start or even skip the sanding altogether and just go straight to the rubbing compounds if the finish is good enough?

I've certainly never seen a body polished with micromesh that doesn't have those fine scratches. It seems that the first time you sand it, the scratches persist no matter how many finer grades you move on to. It's part of the reason I simply don't use micromesh for sanding paint.

My solution would be to airbrush a few more very light mistcoats of TS-13 reduced with plenty of Tamiya lacquer thinner. Let them cure for a week, and polish with nothing more aggressive than Tamiya coarse compound.

I've certainly never seen a body polished with micromesh that doesn't have those fine scratches. It seems that the first time you sand it, the scratches persist no matter how many finer grades you move on to. It's part of the reason I simply don't use micromesh for sanding paint.

My solution would be to airbrush a few more very light mistcoats of TS-13 reduced with plenty of Tamiya lacquer thinner. Let them cure for a week, and polish with nothing more aggressive than Tamiya coarse compound.

Ok. What I have been doing is to put 2 mist coats and then a wet coat of TS13 (rattle can) and then sand starting at 2400, then do another coat of TS13. Rinse and repeat, you know the drill.

Well, now I'm experimenting more and more with my Badger 155 anthem and will try what you said, MPWR. I'll get some pics up with before and after...

Daniel

I've seen plenty of examples of models polished out perfectly w/micromesh. Including my own on the rare occasion. Sometimes I sand the paint perfectly smooth, sometimes I just knock down the texture in the paint to a scale appearance, then buff it out. If I have any visible scratches/haze, I go back and buff the area further. I work harder on more special models, and am lazier w/others. I do try to make my final color/clear coat as smooth as possible, but it's rare when I'm satisfied with just that w/o cutting the surface somewhat. Tamiya over bare plastic is the best recipe for no sanding. Do any bodywork, use primer, and you'll be wetsanding your final coats.

If you still have fine sanding scratches, you need to adjust your sanding and/or your buffing. Try using a higher grit at the beginning. I generally use 2400-6000 grits, before going to compound. You have to use a good compound for the paint you sprayed; Tamiya is great for Tamiya, automotive products are better for automotive paint. Scratch X or Novus #2 works well for enamel. Make sure you are using a proper polishing rag; as mentioned above that could be a source of fine scratches. And you have to really buff the paint. The friction from buffing the paint warms it, makes the paint "flow" into itself. That's how the microscopic scratches get buffed out, if you aren't putting some good elbow grease into buffing, you're not doing the job right. Darker colors force you to work even harder. Then you may need more products in your arsenal. That's when you make use of the 8000-12000 grit cloths. Meguiars cleaner/wax combined with their quick detailer made my black models shine like mad, doing a better job than the Tamiya compound I had at the time. You can't cut too many corners, but most people tend to under-buff their paint with compound, and/or use a polishing rag that's not soft enough or has embedded dirt in it. I have an ancient flannel shirt that I've been using for years. I've made plenty of mistakes along the way. Practice makes the job easier over time.

I've been using the Tamiya polishing cloths (for lack of knowledge of a better source). I generally don't really put a lot of elbow grease into my sanding/buffing--I wasn't sure what exactly was correct...:banghead:

Thanks for the input--the more, the better!

...Goes to show that apparently there are more than one way of getting a good finish. :dunno: :rolleyes:

I fought with micromesh for years and was never happy with the results. Then happily I learned to paint, and I simply don't need it.

2400 is much too rough to use on a painted surface. If you're using anything coarser than 4000, you have a problem with your painting technique. Your efforts would probably be better spent on learning to put the paint on smoothly than trying to correct significant texture afterwards.

I never sand my final layers of paint or clearcoat now. I sand out any texture as it happens (before applying any more paint/clearcoat!), but the last few layers get applied 'perfect'. Then I only polish out with cotton flannel cloth and polishing compound.

Applying wet coats is not a good way to avoid texture. Some people have good luck with them, but that's really what it is- luck. If you apply the paint heavy enough that it can actually flow on the surface, you've relinquished control of the paint to do what it wants instead of what you want. It certainly does take more time and patience to build up paint it light mistcoats- but if you haven't got that time and patience, micromesh will certainly never fix that for you.

I'll concede that some people can apparently achieve excellent results polishing with micromesh. But I'm done with it, and I believe I've learned a better (and easier!) way.

I also suggest that you try different polishing clothes, and also lightly airbrush thinner in order to smooth the very outer surface of the paint film.

Other products you might want to try to see the result for your self are Hasegawa's super-fine Ceramic Compound and Polishing cloth. I'm a happy user of both of them.

So it seems someone here is trying to say that I can't paint.

That's a good one :lol:

Sure wish this discussion could take place in person, with our models as examples of our techniques. Certainly would be more useful than saying that what someone does with their paint is wrong :shakehead

Probably a stupid question on my part, but are you using the Micromesh wet or dry? If by any chance you are using it dry, I am not terribly surprised that you are having the problems.

I bought Micromesh 2 years ago, tried it a couple of times and hated the stuff.

However, since I also hate polishing compounds (they always seem to turn the paint "gooey" for me), I decided to try micormesh on my current model where I had some pretty bad orange peel, runs of clear and other dust/hairs in teh paint.

I used 1200 wet&dry paper and then went through the Micromesh sheets (3600-12000) and all I can say is...it looks like glass! I shocked myself actually.

It seems to me that what worked for me was:
a) it was all done wet with frequent wetting of mesh and model; and
b) with the coarser grades I used very light pressure (just enough to remove the flaw I was working on) and increased the pressure as I worked up through the grades but I never used "elbow grease" as such.

Honestly, where I used this technique the parts are like glass. I am now worried that I will have to do the same to the rest of the model :lol:

I think the moral of my story is that, at the end of the day, you need to experiment with every model and find something that works for you.

I think the moral of my story is that, at the end of the day, you need to experiment with every model and find something that works for you.

This is so true!! Experiment and when you find the magic 'formula' that works for you,stick to it.Everyone has a different technique.What works for one does not always work for another.We all paint in different ways.No ones way is 100% correct or 100% incorrect.It doesn't matter how you get there,it's the end result that counts.