Wideband o2 ~ $110


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SilvrEclipse
01-01-2008, 09:17 PM
Im sure some of you have heard about the JAW diy wideband. Well I researched it a little bit and desided to give it a shot. The wideband is installed in the car and is working flawlessly. This is perfect for anyone who needs a WBo2 but doesn't have 200+ to spend.

PARTS:
- JAW wbo2 controller $55 shipped
- Bosch 17053 o2 sensor $52
- Project box $3
- Wires
TOTAL = $110 for a working WBo2

http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm
*NOTE* - I bought the sensor from NAPA, every other store around here wanted $100+ for it. NAPA is by far the cheapest place I have found, even compared to online prices.

Alan sells a few different versions of the controller. You can buy it assembled or as a DIY kit as I did. There is also an optional screen that can be used to display A/F ratio.

This is how my DIY kit arrived.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2400.jpg?t=1199242694

Here are a few pics of the assembly - Very easy to do if you know how to soldier. Took me about 3hrs to assemble the unit.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2401.jpg?t=1199242753

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2402.jpg?t=1199242849

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2418.jpg?t=1199242939

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2428.jpg?t=1199242998

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/DSCF2429.jpg?t=1199243041

The box is mounted under the passenger seat and the sensor is mounted in the 2nd o2 bung after the cat. I dont have a cat so that does not matter. Here is a screen shot of the WB running at idle. I now have tapped in the rpm signal so I can tune the car.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/JAW2.jpg?t=1199243096

You can also datalog the values and import them into and excel graph. Here is a graph of my a/f ratio to rpms. Log was taken at 100hz (100 samples per second)

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z173/SilvrEclipse/AFlog.jpg?t=1199243521

Thor06
01-01-2008, 09:57 PM
Dude, that is fucking righteoues. A wideband just made it to the top of my summer list. :)

Why no display though?

SilvrEclipse
01-01-2008, 10:07 PM
I dont really need it. I will only use it when tuning the car, I dont need to watch it all the time. And it would have uped the cost some to.

You can also program the Vouts 1 and 2 to inputs a NB sigal into the ECU or input the a/f signal to dsmlink and log everything with that.

TalonEclipseMixGsx
01-01-2008, 10:25 PM
Damn, nice job man. Looks way over my head. But still, glad it worked it out for you. Definately a nice addition to the tech articles.

david-b
01-01-2008, 10:51 PM
Wow I was looking to buy this too and was waiting until next year... which is now BTW. Didn't I post a link to this too? I rock. Good to hear it works fine. May just get it sooner now.

vanilla gorilla
01-01-2008, 11:21 PM
So how did you get it to work on your computer. I'm guessing it didnt come with someware. So what program did you use on your comp to view it

SilvrEclipse
01-01-2008, 11:27 PM
He has the software on his site.

vanilla gorilla
01-01-2008, 11:32 PM
awesome. I'm actually considering this now. My brother in law is a wiring genious so I can let him put it together. So is that box/housing also available through the same guy?

SilvrEclipse
01-01-2008, 11:56 PM
No I picked up the box from radioshack and the 9-pin plug

vanilla gorilla
01-04-2008, 01:11 AM
I was reading through the JAW forum and noticed that you were on there. So I read your post on your problem. So I guess you got it straightened out? What was the deal with that? Sorry for all the questions but I am debating on whether to go this route or not, but all this mess is over my head, lol.

SilvrEclipse
01-04-2008, 04:08 PM
Yea, The problem I had was related to the software. The firmware that you load on your JAW has to match the version of the software you run. I tried using a different version of the software that was not supported by my firmware which through off the readings.

We solved this through email and I never updated the site.

Black99GST
01-22-2008, 12:43 AM
ok guys first off, i know this thread is almost a month old, but i have been considering this WBOII set up as was wondering if i were to skip the display just like silvr did, could i maybe rigg it up to display on my turbo timer? (apexi "pen")

SilvrEclipse
01-22-2008, 05:17 AM
You could configure the output of the WB to a 0-1v signal which is the same as a NB sensor and then input that signal to your turbo timer. It wouldn't show the AF ratio but it would give the voltage of the signal. So as long as you knew what voltage to shot for you would be fine.

Black99GST
01-22-2008, 10:27 PM
You could configure the output of the WB to a 0-1v signal which is the same as a NB sensor and then input that signal to your turbo timer. It wouldn't show the AF ratio but it would give the voltage of the signal. So as long as you knew what voltage to shot for you would be fine.
damn! so their is no way to get the A/F ratio to display on the turbo timer?

SilvrEclipse
01-23-2008, 08:11 AM
Im pretty sure your can't. This would be a limitation in the timer itself. The timer only displays voltage from your stock o2 sensor, it doesn't convert anything to an A/F display. Correct me if Im wrong

Thor06
01-23-2008, 08:25 AM
Dude, the display is like $40 more, if its that big of a deal just spend the extra dough and get one.

david-b
03-31-2008, 03:22 PM
Do you have a part number for the Bosch O2? You can use any O2 right?

SilvrEclipse
03-31-2008, 04:15 PM
You have to use the Bosch 17053 Oxygen Sensor. Cheapest place is NAPA to buy it. About $52

david-b
04-01-2008, 04:48 PM
This WB is 5-wire right? And does the connector matter? Looking at pics, they all look different from the one you have on yours. Or the same model is the same across the board?

SilvrEclipse
04-01-2008, 04:53 PM
Yea there is 5 wires going to the sensor. It has 6 wires going from the JAW to the connector. They should all have the same plug on them. As long as you get that sensor number it should be right.

vanilla gorilla
04-02-2008, 12:10 AM
Hey man. Well I got a few questions. I have yet to get it all hooked up because I'm waiting for my serial to usb cord to come in but anyways.

After I throw it in and hook it all up....What do I do from there? I'm just confused as to what all i need to do to get it up and running. Thanks for any help in advance.

SilvrEclipse
04-02-2008, 07:50 AM
Hook it up inside first. Hook it up to your laptop and do a bench test kinda thing. Hook up the sensor to. You pretty much just follow the instructions he gives you. You load the software into the JAW. Then you calibrate it and test it with a butane lighter. Release the gas right into the tip of the sensor and the AF ratio should go down to 10 or so. This will let you know your sensor is working. Save the calibration and install it in the car.

SilvrEclipse
04-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Just went outside and hooked up my JAW today just to check everything out and see how it is working. Sensor seemed to be dead on with the a/f ratio. Im deffinately going to be ordering a display for mine soon.

The thing I like most about this system is how you can change how many samples/sec the logger records. I log 100 samples/sec when I am tuning the car, which gives a very accurate graph.

david-b
04-02-2008, 03:02 PM
But why does changing it really matter? Obviously you want it to sample more for accuracy, and I'm thinking that slower computers may not be able to handle the higher sampling rate, but I can't see there being THAT much data coming in to really bog down a computer.

SilvrEclipse
04-02-2008, 03:41 PM
But why does changing it really matter? Obviously you want it to sample more for accuracy, and I'm thinking that slower computers may not be able to handle the higher sampling rate, but I can't see there being THAT much data coming in to really bog down a computer.


I dont think most computers will have any problems with it. It doesn't seem to have any effect on mine, and Im usually logging Emanage also and making adjustments.

david-b
04-02-2008, 04:33 PM
I finally remembered my question. Since I have a cat, is it not recommended to put the WBO2 there? Does the cat throw off the numbers?

SilvrEclipse
04-02-2008, 07:05 PM
I think I remember someone saying that once. Im not sure how much the cat will effect the readings. You need to keep your rear o2 in anyways since you have emisions. Just have a bung welded into the downpipe when you get your EGT bung in.

david-b
04-03-2008, 10:41 AM
I think I remember someone saying that once. Im not sure how much the cat will effect the readings. You need to keep your rear o2 in anyways since you have emisions. Just have a bung welded into the downpipe when you get your EGT bung in.

Sounds like a plan. Looks like I'm going to take the header off one day soon and get the EGT in the runner and then another O2 next to the first O2. I want it to be pretty accurate and I think the cat is going to throw it off some. I hate emissions

Thor06
04-03-2008, 11:44 AM
I dont know about you silly 420a guys, but I'm 95% sure the downstream o2 sensor on 2g 4g63's is just there to see if the cat is working or not. IIRC if the o2 signal is different from the first one (meaning the cat is doing its job) its happy, but when the rear o2 signal is the same as the front that means the cat isnt working and it throws a CEL. Other than that CEL it does nothing.

david-b
04-03-2008, 12:03 PM
It's the same here, but maybe the ECU compensates that the cat is there.

Like so much voltage is in the upstream, but less in the downstream because of the cat. Maybe the ECU is programmed to adjust that so it looks even, even though it's really not. Make sense?

Plus, I'd rather not have a CEL on while tuning and shit especially from something as stupid as the rear O2.

vanilla gorilla
04-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Me personally, I'd just take stock one out, and put the new one in the existing bung. Your car is a 95, so I dont know what the laws are like where you are from, but here, it don't matter if your CEL is on in order to get an inspection. Actually, I'd rip that Cat out too, that way you know your readings aren't skewed.

steviek
04-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Bah if you don't want the CEL build the circuit I built it works.
teh schematic is on vfaq.com and if you want a picture of it you can check my o2 install thread a made a while back.

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 01:43 PM
Actually you can program the JAW to give you a NB signal to feed to your ECU. I have played around with these settings are never really got them to work well. I was trying to imput the WB signal into emanage. Not sure if it was a problem on the emanage side or the JAW. But the unit should be capable of doing this.

With that said Dave, you could just eliminate your stock front o2 and feed the ECU off the JAW. The only problem that may come up is having the heat element not hooked up. I didn't want to figure all this shit out so I would just weld a new bung in. Just throwing this info out though.

david-b
04-03-2008, 01:47 PM
In IL, you have to pass the visual (cat, no CEL, EGR...) and the sniffer test when you go in for emissions. That EGR be long gone along with the cat if I could.

I'll check on that circuit

david-b
04-03-2008, 01:49 PM
So are you talking Jay about having the WB in the front, and then being able to feed the signal to the ECU from it and the JAW? How exactly does that hook up? I take it that's a wiring thing? Damn I want my unit already so I can start playing with it.

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 02:24 PM
Thats what Im talking about. The JAW unit has outputs that you can program the voltage range. You can tell the unit to convert the a/f ratio to a 0-1v signal just like the stock o2 would read. This only problem I see with this is how would you run a heater circuit for the front o2. The only other reason I wouldn't want to go this route is because the sensor may not read exactly right compared to how the stock one reads and it may make the ECU f* the fuel up. Or it may make the car run better. I suppose you could try it and see.

david-b
04-03-2008, 02:28 PM
And another stupid question. I'm confused on the heater circuit?

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 02:36 PM
You have 4 wires going to the o2 sensor. 2 wires are for the a/f reading and the other 2 are for the heater circuit. The sensor must be at a certain temp to read correctly and burn the carbon off the sensor. The ECU reads this part of the sensor to make sure the circuit is functioning properly. If it picks up a broken circuit it will throw a cel.

david-b
04-03-2008, 02:43 PM
Got ya. So, if I used the WB as the front, I would have to find a way to hook up those 2 wires in the heater circuit to the ECU right?

Or... (now that I'm thinking more) do all the wires have to goto the JAW first, then output the heater circuit to the ECU then?

What's the 5th wire for?

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 02:47 PM
The WB sensor has more wires going to it. Im not real sure what they all do. You will hook up the JAW like I did but you can the o2 sensor wire into the JAW also. The only thing I can think of with the heater is to keep the stock sensor hooked up to it and just wrap it in foil or something and tie it up somewhere.

This just seems so complicated and the whole thing may not even work with the stock ECU. I would just weld another bung in.

david-b
04-03-2008, 02:52 PM
That seems easier, but I may just give it a try anyways. No things hanging with foil in my bay. That would wreck how she looks now. Speaking of which I need to detail her up badly. Shit, I still need to buy the WB. Should do that tonight.

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Yea I would go ahead and order it. Mine took about 2 weeks or so. And then about 3-4 hrs to put it together if you assemble it yourself. It was a fun project.

david-b
04-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Yea I would go ahead and order it. Mine took about 2 weeks or so. And then about 3-4 hrs to put it together if you assemble it yourself. It was a fun project.

How long it take to get the JAW? I ordered that earlier this week.

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 03:06 PM
O shit, it took about 2 weeks to get the JAW. Did you get a kit or an assembled unit? Napa has to order the sensor, it took about 3-4 days.

david-b
04-03-2008, 03:17 PM
O shit, it took about 2 weeks to get the JAW. Did you get a kit or an assembled unit? Napa has to order the sensor, it took about 3-4 days.

Not assembled. I know how to do that shit so that's no issue. I'm just going to get the sensor online. I'll be honest, I hate NAPA around here. I feel like i'm going to get shot everytime I'm in there, and still not get the parts I need. I've just had bad experience with them.

Black99GST
04-03-2008, 03:17 PM
Im pretty sure your can't. This would be a limitation in the timer itself. The timer only displays voltage from your stock o2 sensor, it doesn't convert anything to an A/F display. Correct me if Im wrong
yeah, my turbo timer will actually display narrowband o2 readings. 14.7:1 at idle, and 11.1:1 at WOT... i would really like to NOT have another screan up on my dash board... let me know your thoughs :banghead:

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 03:24 PM
yeah, my turbo timer will actually display narrowband o2 readings. 14.7:1 at idle, and 11.1:1 at WOT... i would really like to NOT have another screan up on my dash board... let me know your thoughs :banghead:


Does the timer actually say 14.7 or is it the raw o2 sensor voltage? I always thought that the apexi timer just displayed the voltage. Like .92

SilvrEclipse
04-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Ok man, I looked up some info on the apexi turbo timer. It looks as though the timer can display both the raw voltage and and actual a/f ratio. What you need to do is hook up the a/f wire going to the TT to one of the Vouts on the JAW unit. Configure that Vout for a narrow band sensor. This will make the outputs only 0-1v which is what the TT wants. The TT will take this voltage and convert it to an a/f ratio. This should work fine but I would compare the data on the TT to a laptop to make sure the values are accurate.

vanilla gorilla
04-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Dave:

It took like 3 weeks for my JAW to come in.
Yeah I usually don't deal with NAPA either, they're crap is so high priced. A fuckin set of axles for my car were $200 and I had to buy them because Advance couldnt get the right ones. Anyways, NAPA is the cheapest joint to get the wideband sensor from, even cheaper than the I-net.

SilvrEclipse
04-04-2008, 04:37 PM
But you got your assembled so it took a little more time. I have been telling everyone that Napa has the cheapest price on that sensor. I looked everywhere for it. I usually dont get things from them either but ocationally.

Thor06
04-04-2008, 09:49 PM
Napa is usually re-goddamn-diculous as far as pricing goes, but on some things you get lucky... these sensors are one. Guages are another, I got my autometers from them. IIRC if I would have bought them all on eBay I would have saved about $10, but with napa you get them 2-3 days after you order them.

Black99GST
04-10-2008, 03:37 PM
Does the timer actually say 14.7 or is it the raw o2 sensor voltage? I always thought that the apexi timer just displayed the voltage. Like .92
it actually reads 14.4-14.8 at idle, and 20.0(+) when off the gas and its "reving down",at WOT it reads around 11.1-10.0(-) it can read volts also, but i have it set to A/F... because i have NO IDEA how to read the volts and figure out the A/F ratio... this would be AWESOME if i can get it to work with the wideband!

SilvrEclipse
04-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Ah I get it now. Yea that should work fine to read the WB with. Like I said earlier just run it off the vout1 and set that channel to opporate on the NBo2 sensor range and it should be fine. It maybe be a little off depending on how the apex unit turns the voltage back into the AFR but it should be close for the most part.

Black99GST
04-10-2008, 05:39 PM
Ah I get it now. Yea that should work fine to read the WB with. Like I said earlier just run it off the vout1 and set that channel to opporate on the NBo2 sensor range and it should be fine. It maybe be a little off depending on how the apex unit turns the voltage back into the AFR but it should be close for the most part.
sweet! if i get it, could you maybe walk me through setting everything up so this will work? i couldnt have the turbo timer actually display the wideband readings? i would have to set it to narrowband output? :screwy:

SilvrEclipse
04-11-2008, 07:41 AM
Yea I will help you set it up. The TT will display the actual AFR, but the unit is made to work off a NB signal which is 0-1v. A WB signal is 0-5v. So you will have to tell the JAW to send it a NB signal so the TT can understand it and change it back into a AFR.

Black99GST
04-14-2008, 07:06 PM
will i be able to have the turbo timer read a/f while logging the wideband with dsmlink simotainously (s/p) **at the same time?**

SilvrEclipse
04-15-2008, 07:13 AM
will i be able to have the turbo timer read a/f while logging the wideband with dsmlink simotainously (s/p) **at the same time?**

Yes they will run off different channels. There are 2 vouts on the JAW and one will be used to run the Apexi and the other will be hooked to link.

Black99GST
04-15-2008, 10:55 PM
Tight!!!

david-b
04-21-2008, 11:35 AM
Just an update, the forum on the website has been redone to stop the porn, so it's much easier to get around, even though the posts have been whipped out.

SilvrEclipse
04-21-2008, 01:55 PM
Wow thats awesome I was waiting for that to get fixed. Did you contact him about your JAW Dave?

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