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Frustrated with paint job!


racer93
12-28-2007, 06:23 PM
Ok, so I can't get a good picture to represent what is going on with my paint. I'm building the '00 Arai version Subaru STi. I did all the "correct" steps--prime, sand, mist, light coat, wet coat with sandings in between. Then a gloss coat and more of a heavy sanding. Then more gloss coats. I made sure everything was smooth before the final gloss coats. However, after I did that, the surface still came out less than smooth. I don't get it.

Do most of you polish after the final gloss coat? How does one go about getting that "mirror" finish? I'm a bit frustrated...:runaround:

Daniel

wouter1981
12-28-2007, 06:32 PM
Ok, so I can't get a good picture to represent what is going on with my paint. I'm building the '00 Arai version Subaru STi. I did all the "correct" steps--prime, sand, mist, light coat, wet coat with sandings in between. Then a gloss coat and more of a heavy sanding. Then more gloss coats. I made sure everything was smooth before the final gloss coats. However, after I did that, the surface still came out less than smooth. I don't get it.

Do most of you polish after the final gloss coat? How does one go about getting that "mirror" finish? I'm a bit frustrated...:runaround:

Daniel


More info. Do you use an airbrush or cans. If you use an airbrush, what kind which pressure,...what type of primer, paint, gloscoat. What do you mean excatly with a surface that is less than smooth?

freakray
12-28-2007, 06:42 PM
How about a picture of what you've ended up with?

'Less than smooth' could mean anything.

racer93
12-28-2007, 06:47 PM
More info. Do you use an airbrush or cans. If you use an airbrush, what kind which pressure,...what type of primer, paint, gloscoat. What do you mean excatly with a surface that is less than smooth?

Dooh! :icon16: I'm painting with Tamiya rattle cans (TS-50 and TS-13). I'm using the Duplicolor white sandable primer.

Well, the paint is not quite orange peel. The "bumps" are more fine. After looking at it again, it seems that the decals may be wrinkling very slightly to ruin a "smooth" finish. (The Arai version as you probably know is decal-heavy.)

I guess that I may just have to sand and polish again?

Edit: Ray, none of the pics I took actually showed what I'm talking about. I'm a photo novice...

freakray
12-28-2007, 06:49 PM
Are the decals under the clear?

TS-13 is notorious for eating up decals.

racer93
12-28-2007, 06:57 PM
Are the decals under the clear?

TS-13 is notorious for eating up decals.

Yes, they are. However, once they're cleared, shouldn't they be protected? I say that because I cleared one coat, sanded, cleared again, sanded again, cleared once more and it still happened.

When you do multiple layers of lacquer, will the top layers disolve the lower coats (thus affecting the decals)?

freakray
12-28-2007, 07:10 PM
OK, now we're getting somewhere.

How long did you wait between applying a coat of paint, sanding and then applying the next coat of paint?

As to top layers dissolving the lower layers - only if the solvents in the lacquer are strong enough to do so.

racer93
12-28-2007, 07:17 PM
I wait at least 24 hrs between paint and top coat. Between top coats is ~20 minutes for mist coats and ~24 hrs for wet coats.

What's the file hosting website for pics? Once I find that, I can post a pic or two for your enjoyment... =)

freakray
12-28-2007, 07:22 PM
OK, since you're sanding between coats, you're actually cutting it pretty fine on your drying time. Unless you're using a dehydrator to dry your paints faster, you should wait around 4 days between wet coats on color coats and then on the TS-13 clear they recommend waiting up to a month although experience shows around 2 weeks sufficient.
Anyhow, the lack of drying time will likely result in cracks forming in the clear coat eventually.

As to why the surface was rough, that could be spraying distance but without seeing what you've got it's hard to diagnose root cause.

For image hosting, imageshack.com or photobucket.com both work well.

racer93
12-28-2007, 07:30 PM
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh226/drledford93/model.jpg

Here's a photo of the paint...

freakray
12-28-2007, 07:35 PM
When you look at the photo on photobucket, it should give you the url below the photo of what to post to share the photo on a forum or website.

racer93
12-28-2007, 07:39 PM
Here's another photo to show you...
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh226/drledford93/model1.jpg

I have no idea what that white stuff is next to the "Young" on the hood...it's not on the model!

freakray
12-28-2007, 07:57 PM
Your paint looks fine, it just needs polishing.

racer93
12-28-2007, 07:58 PM
I just did the hood and now I'm just trying to get rid of the swirl marks! (FYI--I use micro mesh cloths and novus 1+2.)

freakray
12-28-2007, 08:09 PM
There is a great tutorial in the AF FAQ and How To section on polishing, also check out Alex Kustov's website for his excellent tutorial on painting, his website is italianhorses.net

racer93
12-28-2007, 08:11 PM
Thanks for your real-time help, Ray. You've been a big help!

Daniel

stevenoble
12-29-2007, 06:15 AM
Looking at your photos I think that is normal.You need to polish the finish to bring out the best and get that mirror shine.It doesn't matter how accomplished a painter you are I think you will always need to polish a little to get that mirror shine.It is very hard to lay down a glass smooth paint finish straight from the rattle can or airbrush.Even the best painters have to polish.The Tamiya compounds are very good and Finishers compounds work great as well.Work through the grades and you will soon develop a nice shine on that surface because it's already good to start with.I can't see that there is anything wrong with your painting technique.I have had some worse finishes than what you have here and have polished them to perfection.I wouldn't even think that you need to use the rougher grades of compound,start with the medium,then the finer grades and you should be able to get a very nice finish.The 3 rules I always stick to when polishing are 1: Use the finest grade of polish/compound that you need to get the job done,don't start too heavy you can always go rougher but if you start with the rough stuff you may put hundreds of fine scratches in the surface unnecessarily and they can be very hard to remove.2: Always make sure the painted surface/clear coat is properly dry.If you polish soft paint again you will put scratches into the surface.3: Always use a very fine and soft cloth and turn it often,sometimes I also moisten it a little with some water.If you get any dirt particles in the cloth throw it away and use a new one because if you don't you rub the dirt into your finish and again create those scratches.I use high quality microfibre cloths intended for use on real cars and find them very good.

racer93
12-29-2007, 07:16 AM
Thanks, Steve! Those are some good tips.

However, I started polishing a little and got good results, except that I have the tiny scratches in the paint. (The paint looks like glass from an angle but straight on, the fine scratches are apparent.) To get rid of these, would you simply try and polish them out using your technique (start fine and go more coarse if need be)?

freakray
12-29-2007, 07:38 AM
Racer, once you have finished polishing with the finest compound/cloth, you will need to apply a coat of wax to make those tiny scratches completely disappear. Tamiya model wax or finishers "the last detail" are both excellent choices.

stevenoble
12-29-2007, 08:36 AM
Racer, once you have finished polishing with the finest compound/cloth, you will need to apply a coat of wax to make those tiny scratches completely disappear. Tamiya model wax or finishers "the last detail" are both excellent choices.

This is good advice you do need to wax as well at the end and this will help to eradicate those very fine scratches that you describe.I often use the Tamiya Finish compound as well before the final wax as Ray mentions above.This is really good for giving the paint that glass like smoothness.This is the stuff at Hiroboy.

http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=380

If you haven't got some of this already it is a worthwhile purchase and will last a long time because you only use a small amount.You can also polish clear glass parts with it as well so it has other uses.

stevenoble
12-29-2007, 08:54 AM
Thanks, Steve! Those are some good tips.

However, I started polishing a little and got good results, except that I have the tiny scratches in the paint. (The paint looks like glass from an angle but straight on, the fine scratches are apparent.) To get rid of these, would you simply try and polish them out using your technique (start fine and go more coarse if need be)?

You can run through the polishing stages again.If possible don't go too hard or use too coarse a compound at first.Sometimes the coarser compounds inflict more damage and more scratches.I would only use them as a last resort.The compounds are like very fine sandpapers if you like.The coarser grades are rougher and they get finer as you go down the grades,just like a sandpaper does.So if you use a very coarse grade it puts in lots of scratches and then they are hard to remove.But I find that you must work down through the grades and don't miss one out because each finer grade removes the scratches from the previous rougher grade if this makes sense.

My usual procedure is this:

1: After painting and a thorough drying of the paint I will inspect the finish to asses how it needs polishing.If I have done a good job of the painting it rarely needs much work.If the paint job is really poor I will often strip it and start again.
2: Almost always I will have a few surface imperfections/slight 'orange peel' texture although never too bad.So I usually start with Micromesh 6000 grade polishing cloth used wet and remove the surface imperfections.This will leave a smooth but slightly 'matt' surface.
3: Next I move onto Micromesh 8000 cloth and again wet I will smooth it some more and restore some of the gloss and clarity to the surface.
4: Now I will use Micromesh 12000 cloth again wet and this restores the surface ready for polishing/compounding.
5: Usually at this stage if all is well I will use Finishers medium compound and a damp microfibre cloth to further enhance the finish.
6: Next Finishers Fine compound and damp microfibre.
7: I then use Micromesh Polishing swabs on any hard to reach areas like around light clusters in creases etc.(link for these below)
8: Next I use Tamiya Finish compound and the damp microfibre.
9: Finally a check to make sure the finish is satisfactory and a final wax with Tamiya model wax.

It seems like a lengthy process but it is quite easy.With practice it becomes second nature.

Link to Micro Mesh Polishing swabs: http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=83244

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