alright guys, i've had this arguement with my brother for a while. it hasn't been resolved since he throws a temper tantrum everytime i try to reason with him. ya see: he bought a 94ish (i forget the lingo) civic dx with a shitload of miles on it for $4 grand. he then dropped an H22A in it with all those other tiny mods (intake, exhaust, vtec controller...). all that shtuff cost him $8 grand ($12 grand total) and it can only hit 14s, and since the engine is so heavy in a civic it can't handle for shit.
i don't get it. i'm not too big into drag racing but i know you can buy an older camaro for dirt cheap and make it a hell of a lot faster than that for $12 grand. and if you're like me i'm more into autocrossing and drifting, and in that case you can buy an older sports car which would destroy a civic in auto-xing (i like to bring up this ad i saw for an fc RX-7 with 200hp and 60,000 miles for $1,500, and thats RWD if you didn't know). so why buy a civic for a sports car? and i won't accept cheaper insurance rates for an answer.

tell him to upgrade his suspension and try some corner weighting so he can murder any camaro on any turn

It's all in personal taste. Why ask why? Let your brother do what he want's and you do your own thing. If his car is just running 14's then he did something wrong. My bro drives an f body camaro and he digs my car and I dig his. A true enthusiast is in to all cars. Instead of arguing with him try and help him figure out why he's running bad times.

true dat b16e, a true enthusiast loves all cars, like me. i have my civic yet i love muscle cars too. as for rx7's i think they suck because of that rotary motor but tahts my opinion, but they are still good cars.

his 14s with the h22a could be other factors like what track he was at, temp, and sea level height. maybe he just doesnt know how to race

there is no better car, it's all in the eye of the beholder (holy shit that was deep)

Hey man, Hodas rule, and that's the bottom line, and your brother knows that too!

well also you have to understand. we are modding 4 cylinders. not a huge v8. you know why i dont want a muscle car? because most of them dont put out enough power to justify that huge engine. figure our cars get at least 75 hp per liter. thats even the slower ones. and most of your v8's dont get near that. i believe in tuning. not making your engine bigger. thats something all other companies know except for american companies. oh yah and even with that engine i bet your brother could kill a stock f-body around a turn. american cars cant turn worth sh*t.

Yeah! you tell'im ED!:devil:

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
alright guys, i've had this arguement with my brother for a while. it hasn't been resolved since he throws a temper tantrum everytime i try to reason with him. ya see: he bought a 94ish (i forget the lingo) civic dx with a shitload of miles on it for $4 grand. he then dropped an H22A in it with all those other tiny mods (intake, exhaust, vtec controller...). all that shtuff cost him $8 grand ($12 grand total) and it can only hit 14s, and since the engine is so heavy in a civic it can't handle for shit.
i don't get it. i'm not too big into drag racing but i know you can buy an older camaro for dirt cheap and make it a hell of a lot faster than that for $12 grand. and if you're like me i'm more into autocrossing and drifting, and in that case you can buy an older sports car which would destroy a civic in auto-xing (i like to bring up this ad i saw for an fc RX-7 with 200hp and 60,000 miles for $1,500, and thats RWD if you didn't know). so why buy a civic for a sports car? and i won't accept cheaper insurance rates for an answer.

Blah blah trolls are trolls. Since you know so much about autocrossing, then you must know it's not the car it's the driver. I've beaten many high dollar cars, and high horsepower cars in my Civic on STREET TIRES. So don't come here thinking you can impress us with knowledge of autocross cause you won't.

Oh and what did I spend on my car? About $3000 (shocks, coilovers, and tires/wheels). BUt as I said it's not the car it's the driver. Put me in another car and I can promise you I will deliver, which is why I'm also an instructor for our region and asked to help in other regions too.

so why buy a civic for a sports car? and i won't accept cheaper insurance rates for an answer. [/B]

I love this one. So why buy any car except an FC RX7? I guess they should just close up SCCA and just run RX7 only classes? I know a $500 Fiat X1/9 that will stomp your RX7. He's one of our regional directors. So how do you explain that one Mr. Troll?

Originally posted by dirk-diggler
Hodas ruleNot really :rolleyes:


And the reason why I bought my civic is because of it's looks. Someday when I have enough time/money I'm going to get an old nova and have it run 12s for less than $10k including the cost of the car. You're right, hondas can't touch muscle cars for the speed per dollar. I'd love to have a rwd car that's putting out 600hp, I'd be in heaven, but my civic is so comfortable, nice, and handles like a dream.

Your brothers civic is definitly messed up if he is only running 14's with an h22, there is a guy here in town that has an h22 with like only exhaust in a 93 CX hatch, full gutted interior, and it runs a 12 flat.

well i agree with autocrossing being mostly the driver....but why not buy the best car you can get for your money? i can except that its your personal taste, or you prefer the looks or the smaller engine...

it isn't like i'm trying to prove that the mazda RX-7 is the best car ever made - i just don't get why people choose civics over these other cars

Originally posted by Melt
Your brothers civic is definitly messed up if he is only running 14's with an h22, there is a guy here in town that has an h22 with like only exhaust in a 93 CX hatch, full gutted interior, and it runs a 12 flat.

i don't know what to tell ya - the car is perfectly stock except for those little things. but by the way he does have the full tokico suspension

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
why not buy the best car you can get for your money? i can except that its your personal taste, or you prefer the looks
answered your own question on that one :)

sorry not all of us can afford rx-7's. besides that "the best car for the money" is based on what each individual likes. id love an rx-7. i heard someone earlier say they didnt like the rotary engine. i beg to differ. the rotary is a much better design than our engines if you do your homework. and it can withstand a lot more than all our engines can too. anyone want to discuss that??? but of course that again is personal opinion so not trying to start an argument. just want to broaden peoples knowledge on the subject..............

Ther is no question that the rotary engine is a better design but Mazda has had a lot of problems with their design in the past and if you can't tear the engine apart yourself the you have to go to some " rotary specialist " that will charge you an arm and a leg. Honda's are user friendly which make them more popular for the common tuner.

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
well i agree with autocrossing being mostly the driver....but why not buy the best car you can get for your money? i can except that its your personal taste, or you prefer the looks or the smaller engine...

it isn't like i'm trying to prove that the mazda RX-7 is the best car ever made - i just don't get why people choose civics over these other cars

That's not what you tried to explain when you started this thread. You sounded more like most people who come on here dissing Hondas/Acuras.

I know plenty of people who just go out and buy a $50,000 car to win SS or AS. Then sell the car and buy a newer car for the following year just to win Nationals. How crazy is that? So your brother is only doing what people have been doing since the car was invented. Making them faster and better. Sounds like your brother's car needs some tuning though.

Heck in the North NJ and Philly Region SCCA there are guysing showing up with lots of swapped cars in Street Mod. I've seen everything from a 1989 Civic HB with a swap, turbo and full racing suspension, race tires, roll cage, and racing seats kick the snot out of alot of cars. And I've also seen stock Civics in HS beat the guys in SS (which of course is not the norm).

And people will always be tuning their car to go faster. Wouldn't you try to gain the largest advantage in stock class by getting all the required items? DOt tires, exhaust shocks, front sway bar, etc...? So all your brother is doing is the same, except more to the extreme.

Heck if you gave me a Ferrari F355 Spyder I would be tuning that car too? :) You always want faster :)

It all comes down to taste: we like Honda, you like something else. I like one here posted: as car enthusiasts, we like all cars. And yes, it also comes down to driver ability. You can have all the mods you want, or have the best engine, but someone who drives better will always beat you. But the bottomline is that since we all love cars, then we must pay due respect to each one's taste.

Originally posted by Milliardo
But the bottomline is that since we all love cars, then we must pay due respect to each one's taste.

You said it best :) I don't understand why people buy cars that get 15-20mpg.

you guys realize i never said anything bad about honda, hell i have a honda motorcycle - i don't even own a car. lemme clear up what i meant by that RX-7 ad - in my eyes i just see this car (and others like miatas, 240sx's, mr2s...) as better deals than civics. so civic si, you seem pretty serious about racing, my question to you is why did you choose a civic over these other cars?

and just as a side note, if you're trying to bash rotaries by pointing out the bad gas mileage then thats a total cop out - noone can be serious about environmental issues and still drive a sports car.

I think it's time to lock this stupid thread. He still doesn't get the point.

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
you guys realize i never said anything bad about honda, hell i have a honda motorcycle - i don't even own a car. lemme clear up what i meant by that RX-7 ad - in my eyes i just see this car (and others like miatas, 240sx's, mr2s...) as better deals than civics. so civic si, you seem pretty serious about racing, my question to you is why did you choose a civic over these other cars?

and just as a side note, if you're trying to bash rotaries by pointing out the bad gas mileage then thats a total cop out - noone can be serious about environmental issues and still drive a sports car.

True you didn't say anything bad about Hondas, but you have to realize how many people do come on here thinking Hondas sucks and why don't you get a real car - type attitude. Gets annoying after awhile.

The problem with the cars you mentioned (sans Miata) is that they are dinosaurs, parts are hard to come by, and if you do find them they are super expensive. Ask any RX7 or MR2 owner what it takes just to replace an engine component - and they will prolly give you every swear word in the dictionary. You seriously cannot find many parts anymore (at least OEM parts).

The one nice things about Hondas is the interchange-ability between years and parts. All the aftermarket support for our cars, and because of the all the competition for aftermarket support we get great deals on parts, on the other hand if you have a VW there are only a select few "GOOD" companies and they charge 2-5 times as much as the same part for a Honda.

Not many companies you can just drop one engine from an INtegra and stick it into a Civic and just rewire things. And I mean literally just drop it in.

And I never did "bash" rotaries as bad mpg - actually they get better mpg than most cars. What I was mentioning is why people buy Camaros and big muscle cars that get those low mpg.

I'm very serious about environmental issues myself. Don't know about other people, but even after two track days down at VIR (Virginia International Raceway) I still got about 25mpg. On autocross weekends where I have 4-6 runs over the course of two days I get 30mpg. And believe me I keep an anal log of all my gas mileage :)

Originally posted by B16EJ1
I think it's time to lock this stupid thread. He still doesn't get the point.

Nah I'm actually enjoying this conversation. It's how I got so many people to start autocrossing. You just have to open some eyes :)

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
so civic si, you seem pretty serious about racing


a little understatement?

to add to the topic though i just want to say that my blood pumps thru my veins due to 4cyl honda motors..

Originally posted by shepworldwide


a little understatement?

to add to the topic though i just want to say that my blood pumps thru my veins due to 4cyl honda motors..

I'm just a diehard autocrosser. Have been since 1997. I wsih I had the funds for more track time and a dedicated track car and tow vehicle

Originally posted by edman24
well also you have to understand. we are modding 4 cylinders. not a huge v8. you know why i dont want a muscle car? because most of them dont put out enough power to justify that huge engine. figure our cars get at least 75 hp per liter. thats even the slower ones. and most of your v8's dont get near that. i believe in tuning. not making your engine bigger. thats something all other companies know except for american companies. oh yah and even with that engine i bet your brother could kill a stock f-body around a turn. american cars cant turn worth sh*t.

Horsepower per liter is quite possibly the WORST answer you could have given. We're all so tired of hearing that, import and domestic drivers alike. You can use that argument all day long, but when we get out there on the drag track, and my 5.7L V8 making 275hp blows your 1.6L, 160hp out of the damn water, sure you can "but hey, I make 100hp per liter!" and my response will be "but hey, I just got down the track 2 seconds faster than you!". What will your defense be then? And let me introduce a new ratio you might not have heard of before...It's called Horsepower PER DOLLAR. Something your 4 cylinder just can't seem to match. 300hp stock isn't enough to justify the engine? What about 500hp modded? The reason I don't want a 4 cylinder? Because most of them don't put out enough power to justify the amount of MONEY I have to put into them to get that power. If you think that a v8 engine isn't well-tuned because it's bigger you're about as clueless as it's possible to be:rolleyes: I gaurantee you my car is tuned and tweaked quite a bit further than most cars on the road, no matter what their engine size. American cars can't turn for shit? My 1996 Z28 will smoke you on a road track 7 days out of the week, of that I'm pretty sure. You're making generalizations that aren't backed up by any first-hand experience/evidence. It SOUNDS like you're recycling arguments you've seen others make in the past, without realizing that most of those arguments have already been refuted. Sorry if I'm coming off like a b*tch or anything, just extremely tired of hearing bogus arguments that make no racing sense:rolleyes:

pretty funny self. the fact that you think your z28 could outhandle my car. regardless mines a VW but i can guarantee i could kill you around a turn. thats besides the point. lets put aside the fact that your huge uneconomical p.o.s. v8 is faster. ok i give you that much. but which car will last longer? which is built better? these are the MAIN reasons i hate american cars. they have the technology to be the best but american car companies dont use it. in no way did i say that our 4 cylinders are faster. and i didnt say it would be cheaper to mod a 4 cylinder to beat an 8. but you know what, ive seen a lot of 4 cylinders kill v8's with half the hp. you know why? weight. v8's weigh too much for one thing. you dont need 500hp from a 4 cylinder to move the car as fast as you would an 8. 240 out of a 4 cylinder would move it just as fast as a 500hp v8. ill admit, a dream car of mine is a '69 camaro SS. i love those. but that was when v8's were king and the cars were built to last. im sorry but american cars build quality is totally crap. v8's are fine by me IF theyre putting down the numbers to justify those extra cylinders. and dont make me out to be someone who RECYCLES arguments. i do my own research and form my own opinions. i do base my reasons from first hand experience. i have seen plenty people like you come to street races thinking your going to smoke these little ricers with your big pumping v8 and then get destroyed by a b18c1 with nos or a DSM with a mad turbo or an ls/vtec 5th gen 2 dr (these are exact references to cars i know) if youre that into your z28 then stay in your chevy boards and let us get back to our 4 cylinders.

i await your response............

you live in harrisburg fortyoz2eric?

Originally posted by edman24
if youre that into your z28 then stay in your chevy boards and let us get back to our 4 cylinders.


how did you manage to become a mod on the civic board anyways?

Why did this post just go in a big circle? Why the hell are we on this Muscle car vs Import bullshit??? As I posted befor a true enthusiast
likes all cars so why hate??? Oh and self, if you dislike imports so much why are you lurkin in the honda forum??? This is the Honda forum right??? I don't think I clicked on " I have a v8 so I bash on Honda's " forum did I???

hey shep did you hear what b16 just said? not trying to be a moderator. trying to prove a point. good job b16ej1

Wow, I'm surprised how quickly everyone ganged up against me, thought it would at least take a day:D First, I'm not a mod on this board exactly, I'm the mod of the AF.com Racing forum. BUT, this is pretty much my home. 95% of my posts come from posting in the Honda/Acura section of the board. I am an origninal Purehonda.com member, since 1999:D I love imports, Honda's, and the entire import performance/racing scene. I know most of you guys who are against me haven't been around too long to see that I'm one of the boards greatest supporters and anti-honda bashing antagonists. Now, if one of you could PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE quote just ONE SENTENCE of my previous post that says anything about hating Honda's, or even sounds like I could possibly dislike imports even the tiniest bit, please do so, so I can see where I went wrong. All I said was that I and many others alike, both import and domestic owners are extremely tired of hearing about horsepower per liter as a good reason to own an import over a domestic. It's such a mute and invalid reason, yet we all see person after person recylce it and post it on here time and time again. To say that domestic cars or shit and don't run or last, THAT is hating and bashing. I never said anything like that in my post. All I said is that it's easier/cheaper to make V8's faster, and that you can't group all of them into a stereotypical pack like you're doing, syaing they're shit and can't turn or run a road track. That would be like me "going to a street race and thinking I'm going to destroy ricers with my big pumping v8":rolleyes: See what you're doing? You're doing something I never did in my post, blatantly bashing a type or car. And yes, weight is definitely a problem, but it's a problem for which you have to overcome, usually through more horsepower. Well, hope you guys can see that I'm probably one of the biggest pro-importers on the boards here, and that as far as knowledge of the cars go, I have a fair amount. I work on my friend's cars with them constantly as they are always using my garage(bastards:finger: ):D

Originally posted by shepworldwide
how did you manage to become a mod on the civic board anyways?

as you can see i never bashed you. i just ask how you were a mod in the civic forum?

Originally posted by shepworldwide


as you can see i never bashed you. i just ask how you were a mod in the civic forum?

I know, I wasn't really talking to you, mostly the other guy...But yea, I'm NOT a mod on the civic section of the boards. This place is a WHOLE lot bigger than just here, hehe. I'm a mod on the AF.com Racing forum:)

Originally posted by Self


I gaurantee you my car is tuned and tweaked quite a bit further than most cars on the road, no matter what their engine size. American cars can't turn for shit? My 1996 Z28 will smoke you on a road track 7 days out of the week, of that I'm pretty sure.

for the record though;)

Originally posted by shepworldwide


for the record though;)

Yeap, I wasn't talking about Honda's in general though, or imports. I only say that because I KNOW FOR A FACT my car, which is modded pretty extensively is tuned better than most and will outrun most on a road course OR a drag track. That was a personal comment directed straight at him:) Such he seems to think my car is such shit, I'm pretty sure I can prove it's still quite a bit faster than his, no matter what the racing venue:D

i was just fueling the fire man ;) :hehe:

Originally posted by shepworldwide
i was just fueling the fire man ;) :hehe:

Hahha, yea I could kinda tell;) :D

well i always bash american cars for a few reasons. they deserve it because theyre such pieces of crap, the stupid engineers cause me to have a huge scar on my face for the rest of my life and all they know is "oh lets just make the engine bigger!!!" yah thats right a scar on my face from those damn american cars. know why? a design flaw in the 1976 seville my dad had caused the car to spin and made me get a huge piece of glass in the face. so you see my hatred for american cars is a little deeper then you guys could understand. just know ill find any reason to bash an american car. in my eyes those bastards deserve it. oh yah and you may beat in the quarter, but NEVER around a turn. my car was autocrossed with the lotus club in hollywood and made them look like pintos around turns. thank you very much.........

Please explain the design flaw on the 76 seville in a little bit more detail, generally if someone has had a car for a while they know what its can's and cant's are so not to jump the gun here, are you SURE it was a design flaw, or could it have been (possibly) driver error.

god dammit - well i never intended for this forum to get on this topic. anyway thank you civic si for the answer that brought up some facts. and i'm sorry you honda guys get picked on so much.:hehehe: i don't know, i disagree about rotaries being so expensive. theres only 11 pieces to 13b engine so it isn't like the parts are exotic. and i know of 3 rotary specialty shops in my vicinity so at least around here it isn't a problem.

yea i go to school here in towson, md but i'm from the harrisburg area yea.

and i disagree completely with self - motor companies could use the technology available 100 years ago, but if they build the engine big enough yea it'll give you any amount of power.

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric

and i disagree completely with self - motor companies could use the technology available 100 years ago, but if they build the engine big enough yea it'll give you any amount of power.

What? Rewrite that, definitely don't understand what you're trying to say here...:(
And Ed, sorry if you have a scar because of a design flaw. My cousin's best friend DIED in a car accident when the airbags in his Volvo failed to open. So technically I should hate all European cars:rolleyes: So whatever your reason, YOU'RE the one bashing cars here, not me. Just so that's clear to everyone, I have no one-sided, close-minded views like Ed here.

Back to the ORIGINAL topic :p

I bought my honda and I'm getting ready to buy another honda for one reason: reliability. I'm not bashing any other manufacturers. I've just had extremely excellent experiences with Honda. My dad had an Accord that made it past 212,000 miles. Hell its probably still running today if the body hasn't rotted out. My accord is still running strong after 175,000. I turned from domestic after my experiences with them. I had an S-10 2.8 V6 with just over 100k and the thing was falling apart every day. My parent's 98 Tahoe is starting to fall apart. My uncle's Dodge Ram has had so many problems, I couldn't count them on both hands and feet. I could go on and on and on but I won't. How can I argue with that? Zero problems on a Honda compared to a ticking time bomb after 100k on a Domestic? Thats just my personal experience and my personal thoughts.

Again, I'm not trying to bash other cars. I'm giving you my personal experiences, thoughts, and reasons for buying Honda. :)

Originally posted by Self


What? Rewrite that, definitely don't understand what you're trying to say here...:(

i'm sorry - its hard to word this. my point is that it is very easy to build an engine with plenty of horsepower. the art to building an engine lies in the engine's efficiency, cleanliness and technology incorporated. the s2000 engine is a damn fine engine with 120bhp/l. my bike is 150bhp/l. the RX-7 banzai's 20b is 275bhp/l. anyway my point is that any car company can build an engine with 275hp, but it takes talent to cram that much into a sub-2.5 liter engine

yea i don't know of anyone that has a problem with stock hondas. but i've wondered before are the engines still as reliable now that most of them are made in the u.s.?

wow, i love these kind of conversations. anyways, if i can remember all the way back to the first post, you asked why we mod imports because your brothers civic with an h22 only runs 14s? if im correct on that topic then my answer is simply this:

you can't stereotype a whole model car because of one vehicle. it's like if i saw a mustang running 15's everytime he drove. it could still be because hes a bad driver. or because something in HIS car isn't performing to its capacity. it doesn't necssarily mean all mustangs or all fords are slow. i also wanted to say i agree that auto enthusiasts should like all cars. i know i do ;D

i think 93speed just summed everything up. i wont continue on this thread any longer unless absolutely necessary. and 93speed my dad has had problems like that with EVERY american car he has owned. and the design flaw had to do something with the suspension. i dont know exactly cause i was too small to remember.

and the way fortyoz put that about the technology thing, that was beautiful. i loved it. you understood it very well self dont play
dumb:bloated: sorry to hear about your friend though. but then again i never mentioned anything about volvo's........:rolleyes:

oh yah emerge, im not basing my opinion off one car. that accident was just one example. you want more? ok. how about all the FORD vans at my work came out of the factory missing the bolts that hold the tranny case in? how about my dads CHEVY suburban needing 2 fuel pumps, 2 water pumps, 2 sets of shocks and 2 sets of tires all before 60k miles? does that sound like any hondas you know? didnt think so.

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
yea i don't know of anyone that has a problem with stock hondas. but i've wondered before are the engines still as reliable now that most of them are made in the u.s.?

Its probably too early to tell on that one. Though I seriously doubt Honda would ruin their strong reputation on reliability. Thats what that company is based on. They'd be insane to ruin it.

it pains me to type this but I have too....

. I had an S-10 2.8 V6 with just over 100k and the thing was falling apart every day.

Zero problems on a Honda compared to a ticking time bomb after 100k on a Domestic?

Have friends whose cavaliers have come in gone in the time my 234,000 mile honda has been driven the piss out of. On the same token, how many times in a cars life time does a Honda owner have to replace the CV boot or the joint?

Also, a car buddy of mine, coincidently a Z28 owner, yeah I whoop his ass on a turn, then the damn road straightens out and I think those are his head lights....

No matter, apples and oranges. True, American companies have the know how to build a longer lasting engine. BUT (and I have a degree including specialties in psych, sociology, and international history/politics) American companies do it on purpose! That way we buy more cars, they keep making them, more money. Its a western way of thinking, quick return on any investment. Japanese typically invest in long term, IE: make a car that lasts forever (engine wise at least)

so, one cannot really justify the comparison of, just for example, a Z28 to a Civic Si. they are two different cars, made for entirely different purpose, by two very different minded companies.

ok ok ok, I know you are all tired of reading this thread, but I had to add my $.02, sorry, plus its always fun to use that college stuff I had to learn.

peace!

I meant to say...I think those are his TAIL lights.
my bad

Originally posted by Self


Horsepower per liter is quite possibly the WORST answer you could have given. We're all so tired of hearing that, import and domestic drivers alike. You can use that argument all day long, but when we get out there on the drag track, and my 5.7L V8 making 275hp blows your 1.6L, 160hp out of the damn water, sure you can "but hey, I make 100hp per liter!" and my response will be "but hey, I just got down the track 2 seconds faster than you!". What will your defense be then? And let me introduce a new ratio you might not have heard of before...It's called Horsepower PER DOLLAR. Something your 4 cylinder just can't seem to match. 300hp stock isn't enough to justify the engine? What about 500hp modded? The reason I don't want a 4 cylinder? Because most of them don't put out enough power to justify the amount of MONEY I have to put into them to get that power. If you think that a v8 engine isn't well-tuned because it's bigger you're about as clueless as it's possible to be:rolleyes: I gaurantee you my car is tuned and tweaked quite a bit further than most cars on the road, no matter what their engine size. American cars can't turn for shit? My 1996 Z28 will smoke you on a road track 7 days out of the week, of that I'm pretty sure. You're making generalizations that aren't backed up by any first-hand experience/evidence. It SOUNDS like you're recycling arguments you've seen others make in the past, without realizing that most of those arguments have already been refuted. Sorry if I'm coming off like a b*tch or anything, just extremely tired of hearing bogus arguments that make no racing sense:rolleyes:

This whole damn post is knocking Honda's and if you can't see it you are blind. This reply should've been answered in a pm or email. I didn't mean to come off wrong but you as a moderator should know better. If you want to post about stuff like this do it else where like in your own Chevy forum because no one here wants to read that crap. If you are an enthusiast as you say you are and like Honda's and support them explain to me how this post proves it????

Originally posted by fortyoz2eric
god dammit - well i never intended for this forum to get on this topic. anyway thank you civic si for the answer that brought up some facts. and i'm sorry you honda guys get picked on so much.:hehehe: i don't know, i disagree about rotaries being so expensive. theres only 11 pieces to 13b engine so it isn't like the parts are exotic. and i know of 3 rotary specialty shops in my vicinity so at least around here it isn't a problem.

yea i go to school here in towson, md but i'm from the harrisburg area yea.

and i disagree completely with self - motor companies could use the technology available 100 years ago, but if they build the engine big enough yea it'll give you any amount of power.

Well see in the Lancaster area you have to find a tuner shop to work on your rotary :) Mazda will not help you anymore - at least that's what my friends have said.

But hey you should come out to our autocrosses up by Hershey. http://www.scca-susq.com we start back up in April.

Originally posted by B16EJ1


This whole damn post is knocking Honda's and if you can't see it you are blind. This reply should've been answered in a pm or email. I didn't mean to come off wrong but you as a moderator should know better. If you want to post about stuff like this do it else where like in your own Chevy forum because no one here wants to read that crap. If you are an enthusiast as you say you are and like Honda's and support them explain to me how this post proves it????

Better yet, explain to me how it bashes Hondas or ANY import in any way at all? The only thing you could even possibly say in that regaurd would be the part about me saying I could smoke his car on a road track. And that's not because it's a Honda or anything else(it's a VW btw), that's just because I KNOW my car is probably quite a bit faster because of the significant time and money I've invested in it. So you quote and explain JUST ONE specific example from my post that bashes an imported vehicle in any way shape or form.
And what should I know better? That I'm not allowed to disagree with someone or explain my point of view because I am a moderator? What exactly should I know better about??

You can use that argument all day long, but when we get out there on the drag track, and my 5.7L V8 making 275hp blows your 1.6L, 160hp out of the damn water, sure you can "but hey, I make 100hp per liter!" and my response will be "but hey, I just got down the track 2 seconds faster than you!".


Ok so what exact car were you describing here? What 1.6L engine puts out 160 hp compared to your 5.7L??? What kind of car owner has used the phrase " but hey, I make 100hp per liter!"??? You mean this wasn't directed to Honda owners or a specific HONDA owner??? If not then what kind of car? A VW.....please!!!
You should know better than to bash on Honda's YES Honda's on a HONDA FORUM!!! That's what you should know better. Thank you.

Originally posted by B16EJ1
You can use that argument all day long, but when we get out there on the drag track, and my 5.7L V8 making 275hp blows your 1.6L, 160hp out of the damn water, sure you can "but hey, I make 100hp per liter!" and my response will be "but hey, I just got down the track 2 seconds faster than you!".


Ok so what exact car were you describing here? What 1.6L engine puts out 160 hp compared to your 5.7L??? What kind of car owner has used the phrase " but hey, I make 100hp per liter!"??? You mean this wasn't directed to Honda owners or a specific HONDA owner??? If not then what kind of car? A VW.....please!!!
You should know better than to bash on Honda's YES Honda's on a HONDA FORUM!!! That's what you should know better. Thank you.

That's not a bash, that's a fact. That was the orignal argument that I objected to on this thread. That more horsepower per liter is a great reason to buy one car over another. It's not. I can point out over 100 HONDA owners that post on THESE BOARDS that will tell you the same! That is nearly a direct-quote of what someone has said to me before, when my car was stock and I beat them. Granted he was a good friend and was just joking(making fun of people who really say it)but still, there are plenty of people who say that and are serious. If my 5.7L Camaro Z28 smokes a 1.6L Honda Civic SI and the Honda driver says "but my car makes 100hp per liter!" you can bet that I will say "but hey my car just got down the track 2 seconds quicker than yours!" That isn't a bash though. It's closer to being a bash on the idiocy of the people who actualyl use that argument than it is to being a bash on the car. I will say the same thing to a Cavalier driver, or ANYONE who makes that useless argument. I have not bashed a Honda on this forum yet, and I doubt if I ever will seeing as how I am one of the most vehement supports of imports on the boards. Step out of this thread and LOOK BACK to before your time and see how many times I have defended and spoke for imports against ignorant and close-minded people, please. And we can all do without the incessant sarcasm, please:rolleyes: It's not helping the situation any.

Okay I'm done.

Originally posted by B16EJ1
Okay I'm done.

Me too then I guess. Jolly good debate there, mate:) :ylsuper

Go Honda!:D Go Chevy!:D Go imports!:D Go domestics!:D

Hell yeah!!! That was entertaining. We'll do this again sometime.

Did we get our jollies? :) Closing thread.