What is the best budget street racing car?


GreatOne01
12-30-2002, 09:40 PM
Just like the other very popular topic except I'm wondering what is the best street racing car under 10000US. What I mean is if the car only costs 5000, the rest goes into mods. :D

Layla's Keeper
12-30-2002, 10:06 PM
I'm going to go against my usual statement and say that you might want to look at a 3rd generation 350ci V8 Camaro. They can be made to handle quite nicely, actually. There's tons of them in the A Sedan class in SCCA competition. Plus they've got bunches of aftermarket parts, great availability, and there's really no way to break them. You could buy a decent '85 with manual for around 3000, pour 3k into the suspension, and the remaining 4k into the engine/transmission and have a 10sec car that also pulls .9+ G's on the skidpad. The problems I see are insurance and stealth. Insurance companies automatically think that if you own a Camaro, you're going to do something stupid. Plus, Camaros aren't low profile cars, so don't expect to sneak up on unsuspecting drivers too often.

With that sort of money, there's plenty of import options, too. DSM cars (Talons, Lazers, Eclipses), Nissan 240SX's with SR20DET transplants, turbo FC RX-7's, Mitsubishi Starions, Porsche 924's and 944's (ha, beat you to it, CBass), Subaru Impreza 2.5RS coupes, 80's Toyota Supras (first gen samurais and 2nd gen turbos), and a whole lot of classic British sports cars like my Layla (1970 MGB GT, if you don't know).

It mostly comes down to taste, but these are just some of your options. Choose well, and grab your own gears. It's always more fun that way.

TerminalVelocity
12-30-2002, 10:07 PM
classic muscle for speed
many many imports for handling

-The Stig-
12-30-2002, 10:51 PM
2nd Generation Camaro/Firebird 1970-1973.

Endless supply of Suspension upgrades, and Mindless aftermarket support for a Non-Smog V8.

Not to mention you can get good gas milege if you know how.

Cars can be picked up for about $3000 in decent condition, Motors are usually strong cause people are always upgrading them but if you feel compelled to replace it.. a new motor can run you $1200-$4000 depending on your 'output' desires. Suspension work shouldnt be much more than $2000 for a whole new setup. All together it would be about a $8000 project with $2000 left to go towards maybe a 6-speed? hehe.


Just my .02

Fliquer
12-31-2002, 12:37 AM
Definitely have to go with the Nissan 240sx w/ sr20det swap. That or a gen 1 mr2 blown out the ass.

Misundaztood
12-31-2002, 02:29 AM
I'm gonna half to go with either a first-gen turbo DSM or a 5.0 Mustang. Both can be had for 5 grand very easily & both have an endless supply of aftermarket parts. However, word of caution, DSM's(especially the 1Gs)are not excactly realiable....

Cbass
12-31-2002, 02:36 AM
For $10,000, you can make anything go fast and handle well. $10K will buy a built engine and a complete suspension swap, so it just comes down to personal taste.

For a Ford, how about a '90 LX Mustang, with a $2000 built 400M and C6 combo making 425hp/500ftlbs, IRS from a Cobra, or MN12 Thunderbird SC? Fiberglass hood and doors, lightweight seats, maybe 3000 lbs, with a lot of power.

For a Chevy, how about an original Z24 Cavalier with a supercharged Buick 3800 series 2 swap? Tune that engine for around 300hp, and 300ftlbs easily enough. Add the lightweight parts, get it down to around 2700 lbs...

For a Mazda, how about a Turbo 2 RX7 FC with a grand under the hood? That'll make 400hp without trouble. Suspension upgrades? How about any suspension setup, from a plush street job, to full out IMSA race gear?

Or if you don't require the engine to be of the same make as the car, I'll go with my classic recommendation. Get a Series 2 RX7(81-85 12A equipped cars), and swap out the engine for a Ford 5.0 HO EFI engine. 2300lbs, 50/50 weight balance, and as much power as you can afford. You can build a 450hp pump gas 5.0 for a couple thousand, and a full coilover kit isn't very much either. Add a nice body kit to the equation, and you've got 10 second car, that runs on pump gas, and will turn lap times equal to track cars.

Cbass
12-31-2002, 02:41 AM
Sorry Redneck, just had to make the Chevy a Cavalier :P

Octagon, you're a bastard :hehehe:

I forgot to add my other personal favourite, although it's not the best suited to a straight line, and you'll only be able to beat C4 Corvettes... :(

1988 Fiero GT, with a 3400 TDC engine swap, and a complete engine build, good for 305hp at 8500rpm, 250ftlbs at 6000rpm. Save weight where you can, and you have a 2700 lb car, which can run with Vipers on the strip, and eat them alive on the road course :D

hybridsol
12-31-2002, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Cbass
For a Mazda, how about a Turbo 2 RX7 FC with a grand under the hood?
what no porshe?

Cbass
12-31-2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by hybridsol

what no porshe?

Aha, no, I only recommend Porsches to people who I think deserve them.. if every idiot who was looking for a nice car bought a Porsche, we would see a lot more abused Stuttgart stallions in the junkyard ;)

Oh, my Nazism has officially expanded to include BMW ;)

-The Stig-
12-31-2002, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by Cbass

Or if you don't require the engine to be of the same make as the car, I'll go with my classic recommendation. Get a Series 2 RX7(81-85 12A equipped cars), and swap out the engine for a Ford 5.0 HO EFI engine. 2300lbs, 50/50 weight balance, and as much power as you can afford. You can build a 450hp pump gas 5.0 for a couple thousand, and a full coilover kit isn't very much either. Add a nice body kit to the equation, and you've got 10 second car, that runs on pump gas, and will turn lap times equal to track cars.


UM We've got to disagree (TerminalV and I are sitting here.. alone ... at 12:24am... because a girl wouldnt see us :()

TerminalV's Thoughts: Its extremely hard to pump out 450hp out of a 5.0 on pump gas the compression would be way too high (Maybe give us a list of parts?). Unless you go supercharged you can run a lower compression ratio... or a healthy dose of N20. Also a 5.0 built up like that, Wouldnt be good for Circle Track Racing. It would be mostly a torque motor for Drag Racing. Also First Generation Rx-7's have been known to have serious aerodynamic problems. Unless you put on a bodykit with airfoils and maybe a wing. Even then they still have problems. Stock w/ 300hp they're known to 'pick' up off the ground and lose all control!:bandit:

My Thoughts: I personally dont believe you could have a car with 450hp in such a light body run 10s... Without tubbing the car. And if you Tubb the car then it would handle like crap for the Road Racing. Thus you wouldnt be able to hang with anything.

And what about the Fiero? If you put in a 3800 series II S/C motor (225hp-240hp) You'll be able to turn mid 13s easy. And C4 Corvette's aren't slugs people think... '85 Corvettes ran a 0-60 in 5.7 and a 14.1 stock. :frog:

DemonZX
12-31-2002, 07:55 AM
In other words, it depends on where you want your speed. Do you want to go fast in a straight line, or do you want to hit the twisties? If you are just going to use it to drag I would say get "anything" with a 350. There are tons and tons of suff available for them for not that expensive. If you want to go import go with an older Z or RX-7. Light weight and pretty powerful.

Good luck buddy!

Cbass
12-31-2002, 03:32 PM
I have to work out some deal with Igor where I get to murder the old server after he upgrades. AAAAHHHH!!!! :mad: I just lost my post including the engine buildup, and about a dozen pics of aerodynamic aids for the RX7... :mad:

Oh well, I guess I'll just write it again... Okay, 347 stroker kit, 10-11:1 compression, TF Twisted wedge heads, with 2.02 intakes, 1.60 exhausts, TF Track Heat intake manifold/plenum, Crane Powermax cam ( http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/ford18.htm#3.%20PowerMax ), EFI upgrades including MAF sensor, injectors, fuel pump, EEC microtuner blah blah blah, add a MSD box and more powerful coil to supplement the ignition, and your good. At this point, you might just want to go with a stand alone digital distributorless ignition system, because it would be about the same cost, for much better results.

As for the aerodynamics, they do have to be cleaned up. A flush air dam, side skirts, and a spoiler for downforce help, and underbody panels made from steel sheet make a world of difference, and add signifigantly to your total downforce. Now, a 450hp 2300lb car is not going to do 10s on an 8" tire, which is about the most you can fit in a series two without either tubbing or flaring. Tubbing will ruin your handling, but flaring will improve it, and allow you to widen your track, lowering your centre of gravity, and increasing your track to wheelbase ratio.

There are a number of good body kits out there for the first gen, I think the first one here is the best for dragging, as it gives the most room for rubber in the back. It's ugly as sin though...

http://www.erebunicorp.com/images/autos1/RX7362f.jpghttp://www.erebunicorp.com/images/autos1/RX7362r.jpg

I like this one quite a bit more, it's a knockoff of the popular Mariah kit, although it is lighter.

http://www.erebunicorp.com/images/autos1/RX7361f.jpghttp://www.erebunicorp.com/images/autos1/RX7361r.jpg

This is the one I'll probably get, unless I can find a better deal locally.

http://www.piner.com/japco/rx71.jpg
http://www.piner.com/japco/r1.jpghttp://www.piner.com/japco/r2.jpg
http://www.piner.com/japco/r3.jpghttp://www.piner.com/japco/r4.jpg

The reason I recommend the 3400 TDC is because it was the ultimate evolution of the 60 degree V6, and was severely detuned for production. It was actually designed to be the F body engine, but people wanted the 305 and 350 :hehehe: , same story as the SV0 Mustang.

On the dyno, their production model made 270hp, at 7000rpm. You can imagine how with proper tuning, this quad cam 3.4 liter V6 could make some serious power.

RACER D12
12-31-2002, 08:56 PM
Oh, my Nazism has officially expanded to include BMW

:DWelcome to the darkside:smoker2:

-The Stig-
01-01-2003, 05:03 AM
HAHA 10:1-11:1 Compression.. Thats Just Barely Pump gas... you're so far up there on octane boost its not even funny.

My motor makes 10.25:1 Compression and it'll be stuck at a minimum of 91 octane and i'll have to add Octane boost.. or Race Gas to get the best performance out of it.

I wouldnt consider a motor making over 10:1 compression a Pump Gas motor... it is. But its so on the verge its not really that economical cause you still have to use so many additives or use a Race Gas mixture.

And Yes, the muscle cars that are Pre-70 era do have high compression ratios. Thats because they were running a Leaded Gas. In 1971 everything was changed to run on Unleaded :mad: thus Compression ratios dropped and so did Horsepower.

Anywho... you can squeek by on just 91. It may have a tendency to ping slightly but you can get by.

DemonZX
01-02-2003, 09:17 AM
Yeah that's what th n/a Z's run...10:1. Premium only! I give her a little booster sometimes as a treat.;)

fatninja19
01-04-2003, 04:51 PM
What the Zo6's CR?? Isn't it higher than 10:1??

Wolf Guard
01-04-2003, 09:08 PM
Personally since I have one and it cost me $3500 I would go with an MN12 Tbird either the 5.0 HO or the SC 3.8

Both have a large upgrade market for them, the HO can take the mustang upgrades as far as the engine goes, the Super Coupe has a couple of companies that do work for them specifically and generally they cost very little, very easy to maintain. Besides they are equivalent to Fox Body mustangs with independent rear suspension and more advanced electronics system. But MN12s are heavier, than Mustangs. Stock the MN12 5.0 is a 15 second car. To get that speed out of an import you have to put alot more money in it.

M3TLAG
01-04-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Fliquer
Definitely have to go with the Nissan 240sx w/ sr20det swap. That or a gen 1 mr2 blown out the ass.

After you drop all of the 10k into the car, and the VERY EXPENSIVE engine....you have nothing left for mods. Now an Acura Integra GSR 93 Model........full of mods would own you!

Layla's Keeper
01-04-2003, 09:24 PM
Umm, M3tlag (how the hell do you pronounce that, anyways?)... You're mistaken on the cost of 240SX's and SR20DET's.

An S-13 can be found for as little as $500 (not running 1989, but you'll be swapping anyways) to as much as $3500 for a 1992-93 convertible (but they're automatic only, so they suck). My teammate picked up his silver 1989 S-13 hatchback SOHC for $900 and it's totally straight. The one niggle? The left pop-up head light stays up, and he's installing sleepies to get rid of that.

S-14's are more the cost you're talking (near $10,000), but even still, you're talking top of the market, low mileage 1998 Shark-eyes. Right down the street from me is a '97 Round-eye for $7799. It's automatic, but loaded with all the factory options, and it's priced out of the $5000 market these cars are usually in.

Now, a Red Top DET with tranny will usually cost you around $1500 to $2500, depending on the dealer and the state of the engine (engine only, engine and tranny, turn-key, electrics not included, etc.) Red Tops were found in the 13's and 14's. The more powerful (stock) Black Top will run you a bit more (into the $3000 range) because the trick is finding junked S-15's with intact engines. The beauty is if you buy a Black Top/tranny combo, you get a nice 6-speed close ratio box to replace the US 5-speed, and it still all bolts up.

So, if you go the cheapest route (basket case S-13 and worn Red Top) you'll have a 200+ HP REAR WHEEL DRIVE (which almost always equals ownage) car with plenty of potential for gain for around..... 2k.

Hmm. Sounds pretty "low budget" to me.

M3TLAG
01-04-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Octagon
Umm, M3tlag (how the hell do you pronounce that, anyways?)... You're mistaken on the cost of 240SX's and SR20DET's.

An S-13 can be found for as little as $500 (not running 1989, but you'll be swapping anyways) to as much as $3500 for a 1992-93 convertible (but they're automatic only, so they suck). My teammate picked up his silver 1989 S-13 hatchback SOHC for $900 and it's totally straight. The one niggle? The left pop-up head light stays up, and he's installing sleepies to get rid of that.

S-14's are more the cost you're talking (near $10,000), but even still, you're talking top of the market, low mileage 1998 Shark-eyes. Right down the street from me is a '97 Round-eye for $7799. It's automatic, but loaded with all the factory options, and it's priced out of the $5000 market these cars are usually in.

Now, a Red Top DET with tranny will usually cost you around $1500 to $2500, depending on the dealer and the state of the engine (engine only, engine and tranny, turn-key, electrics not included, etc.) Red Tops were found in the 13's and 14's. The more powerful (stock) Black Top will run you a bit more (into the $3000 range) because the trick is finding junked S-15's with intact engines. The beauty is if you buy a Black Top/tranny combo, you get a nice 6-speed close ratio box to replace the US 5-speed, and it still all bolts up.

So, if you go the cheapest route (basket case S-13 and worn Red Top) you'll have a 200+ HP REAR WHEEL DRIVE (which almost always equals ownage) car with plenty of potential for gain for around..... 2k.

Hmm. Sounds pretty "low budget" to me.

Yeah, an S13 with "high maintenence" issues. No suspension mods, and half ass tires at best. Come on. Want a cheap car. 94 Eclipse GST. 16g upgrade, HKS Cams, FMIC, and etc....boost controller. That would own the 240, Period.

Not trying to piss anyone off, but just having a motor and tires is not too efficient, and for qualities sake....you might as well take the 94 Eclipse that is faster, and just as old.

Maybe it seems as if I am a quality freak. Maybe thats why I purchased an M3. I have worked on these cars way too much to know that if you take an older car out to the races, and run it extremely hard, something has to give. Take for instance my freinds 95 Civic B16A Hatchback, or maybe my freinds 93 LS/VTEC Integra, that had several issues, so he finally rebuilt/replaced several components. He finally came out with a lighter wallet and an 11k rpm redline.

Layla's Keeper
01-04-2003, 09:49 PM
You're talking about modifying a turbo car, and you're worried about maintenance issues? Once you go beyond factory expect to get familiar with a comfy creeper or some sturdy floor jacks because the car WILL, not might, WILL, break. Haven't you ever seen rod runs? There will always be that time where you're on the side of the road, waiting for something to cool down, or the truck to come. Tuned motors mean high tolerances. Street driving means excessive wear that is DEADLY to high tolerance motors. This is why, in the 60's, Six-Pack 440 Wedge powered Super Bees and Chargers often beat the Hemi Super Bees and Chargers. The Hemi was a highly tuned motor that needed its owner's full attention, and often stumbled in street driving. The Wedge? Just a big lump of iron.

The whole of my point was that to get the basics of the JDM S13K/180SX (that's another thing, shop around for a CA18 DET, less torque but about $500 cheaper) package, the initial outlay is very cheap. Afterwards, the aftermarket opens up and you can build the car to your desires. The S-13 and S-14 chassis are sufficient for most everything, depending on the parts, of course. You can build a good dragger, stellar autocross or road racer, or get a bit goofy and drift the thing. It's all a matter of the parts you buy after you get the basic package.

Now, the Eclipse? :p A floppy chassis, numb shifter, and heavy understeering tendency do not a fun car make. Yeah, they drag race them successfully. So? They drag raced Ramblers and Monzas successfully, doesn't make them any more competent as all around cars.

BlOOe46
01-04-2003, 09:57 PM
some bmw low-budget, cool cars to think about

a 2002 with an s14 swap

an e30 m3, swapped in place of the s14 a euro spec s52 or an s50 for cheaper . . . car, 5-6k; motor, 6-10k; couple it w/ the factory 4spd w/ od or go one step further and pick up a euro spec e36 6spd

the latter, im thinking is what ill be doing for a next car . . . w/ a good weight reduction, the car would run 321 factory hp and 260 ft lb at the flywheel all on a 24-2500 lb car (all in a classic body style)

its definitely something different then any of the american or jap-import cars

M3TLAG
01-04-2003, 09:58 PM
Octagon, I agree w/ you thouroughly, even though it may not look like it.

I work on cars myself, and I have learned a lot people don't do the work themselves, hence leading to high prices. I.e. a freind who just got back his integra, Intake Manifold and Fuel Rail was being put on, and I told him I could do it. However he paid 250 to have his Idle around 1500 and his car running rich. Looks like I have some work coming up.

Im just trying to include the Labor and other expenses in the "budget."

You are very right about the tolerance and quality issues.

BTW, I forgot to say, Second gen. 4G63's are notorious for having rod knock etc. due to the bearings failing.

Layla's Keeper
01-04-2003, 10:04 PM
*chuckles* Heck, an argument is always a spot of fun. Good show.

You are right about labor. I don't usually include it because my friends and I do most all our work ourselves. It's a good way to lose money.

M3TLAG
01-04-2003, 10:09 PM
Octagon, you are the MF-ing man, lol

Yeah, labor is what will get you, right in the ass.

:::ROD KNOCK MOVIE:::

http://www.turbo4wd.com/movies/rodknock1.mpg

Cbass
01-05-2003, 04:56 PM
And as was discussed on another thread, high boost means high octane. For a car you are going to drive every day, nothing beats a 400hp Ford smallblock in a 2300 RX7, with coil overs all around, custom Wilwood brakes, and a nice set of wheels and tires :D

This car suffers from a sever lack of tireage ;)

Cbass
01-05-2003, 07:39 PM
An SR20DET powered S13 is a pretty good choice for street racing, it weighs around 2800 lbs, and has near limitless potential in every regard. Of course, a V8 powered RX7 has more potential, and is lighter to boot ;)

I can't see how $10K into a FWD Acura is going to make a car that's any better than a 240SX with $10K in it. At the sort of power you could be making out of either, the 240SX will have a much easier time putting it to the ground, and the sort of modifications necessary to make the Acura hook up would ruin it's handling.

The 240SX can run faster times with the same power to weight ratio, because it has more traction during a 1/4 mile drag, because of it's RWD layout. It also has better high speed handling, again because of it's RWD layout. Ask anyone who has done professional touring car racing, those cars are no fun to drive. Fast, yes, but more unstable then they are fast. Compare it to a production based GT like a SCCA A class Viper, or Porsche, or Saleen mustang, those cars are actually easier to drive, and a good deal more pleasant.

DemonZX
01-06-2003, 09:34 AM
When your puitng all that power down it will be near hell to try to go around twisties. That would be too much work for my taste! With a front wheel drive car with a lot of power it is like you have to pull it through all the turns...rear wheel drive cars you just push them through.

Steel
01-06-2003, 01:18 PM
<sob> no, please, keep the rotary in the 7!!

Anyway CBass, im pretty sure he was talking of the FC 7, not the SA or FB, which had aero probs. The FC's run a drag CO of .31 without the spoiler and .29 with the spoiler iirc. Dont need no stinkn bodykits! But definetley get a TII if you decide to get an FC 7, because the N/A's are a bitch to make a lot of power out of (basically wont be streetable, and you have to redo your drivetrain)

Cbass
01-06-2003, 02:49 PM
Well, I was personally talking about the series 2 first gen RX7 with the 12A rotary. The 12A weighs something to the order of 350 lbs, which is only 70 lbs lighter than a Ford 5.0 smallblock, which can easily be built for 300hp for very little money, and 400hp for a bit more money. If you really know how to build the engine right, you can get 450hp on pump gas.

The engine and tranny will bolt in, the only actual modifications being denting the firewall slightly in a few places for clearance, a new transmission crossmember, and a shorter driveshaft to make up for the longer transmission.

Depending on the model you pick, this gives you a curb weight of between 2250-2350 lbs. There are numerous options for suspension and brake upgrades. In fact, the reason I recommend going for one of the widebody kits is the first gen body doesn't have enough room for the tires you would need with this sort of power. Provided you have the traction to make it happen, a 10 second run should be no problem with this car.

Also, by using a full competition IMSA body kit, you should be able to drop quite a few pounds, maybe getting it down to 2200lbs.

DemonZX
01-06-2003, 02:58 PM
Oooooo...That kind of talk gives me chills!

Add your comment to this topic!