Crown Victoria No Start


glenn ernst
12-10-2007, 12:34 PM
Have a 1993 Crown Victoria (200K Mi) that fails to start.
Car running Ok just prior. Driving everyday. No recent ignition or fuel system work done.
Drove into driveway and shut off. Will not restart. Has following symptoms.
1. On moving ignition switch to On, fuel pump briefly operates 1-2 sec.
2. Moving switch to Start, starter spins and engine turns over. No start.
3. Spark check Ok. Plugs show strong blue spark on several plugs.
4. Fuel at cylinder appears Ok. Lift injector rail slightly and see fuel pulsing when cranking. Plugs do not show any wet fuel tho'.
5. Checked all fuses under hood and in driver side and all Ok.
6. Inspected for loose, broken, frayed wires and grounds. All appear Ok.
7. No unusual engine noises on cranking. Spins smoothly.
What have we overlooked to repair and enable starting? Thanks.

way2old
12-10-2007, 06:41 PM
Hook a fuel pressure gauge to fuel rail and see what the actual pressure is. It needs to be around 42 psi with key on or cranking. The way you checked is not a good way to see if there is pressure. If pressure does not reach that, fuel pump is bad.

glenn ernst
12-11-2007, 10:02 PM
Hook a fuel pressure gauge to fuel rail and see what the actual pressure is. It needs to be around 42 psi with key on or cranking. The way you checked is not a good way to see if there is pressure. If pressure does not reach that, fuel pump is bad.

Thanks for the suggestion. Connecting a pressure gauge to the fuel rail at the Schrader valve shows 45psi after 3-4 cranks. We also removed all plugs and cleaned the light carbon build-up. Plugs looked generally good, mostly dull-black and not significant carbon deposits or wear. Also checked cylinder compression and measured 120psi at several cylinders. Tried starting again, but with same results: seems briefly to try to start, then just continues cranking without catching.

way2old
12-12-2007, 09:08 AM
Does the fuel pressure come up to that spec with key turned on? How long will it hold pressure? Look for broken wires under the right side of the bumper under the battery area. Long shot is to try unplugging each sensor one at a time and see if it will start between each. Have run into shorted sensors that took the computer reference to the other sensors causing a no start. Good luck.

knelleken
12-12-2007, 09:23 PM
check your crankshaft position sensor. fuel+spark+compression+timing=ignition

glenn ernst
12-14-2007, 01:07 PM
Does the fuel pressure come up to that spec with key turned on? How long will it hold pressure? Look for broken wires under the right side of the bumper under the battery area. Long shot is to try unplugging each sensor one at a time and see if it will start between each. Have run into shorted sensors that took the computer reference to the other sensors causing a no start. Good luck.

Thanks for the additional ideas. Checking the fuel pressure, it does rise to 40psi with Key-On. Also then remains at 40psi with brief engine cranking. No visible loss of pressure. Checked again for wiring problems, particularly under right bumper, but not trouble found. For the additional test of sensors, to which ones do you refer? Are these MAF, Crankshaft, Coolant, and the like?

glenn ernst
12-14-2007, 01:36 PM
check your crankshaft position sensor. fuel+spark+compression+timing=ignition

Thanks for the additional ideas. We still have to perform the check on the crankshaft sensor and will advise. Our diagnostics to date tell us we have fuel flow, good spark, good compression. Since compression is good are we correct in thinking that would say the valve timing is Ok? Will still have to check the spark timing based on the crankshaft sensor input. It's puzzling that the vehicle was running so well immediately prior to the problem of failing to start.

way2old
12-14-2007, 07:01 PM
Those are the ones I am referring to. Just don't unplug crank sensor or there will be no spark for sure. Do one at a time and be sure you plug it back in if it does not help. Pay close attention to the cannister purge solenoid. Had one fail and we looked for about 2 days. Found it when it started to smoke. Have you done a compression test? If something silly like the fuel regulator hung and dumped fuel in cylinders, you could have lost compression due to the fuel washing the walls down. Not real likely, but a possibility.

justin94
01-10-2008, 01:30 PM
Did you check yor crank or cam position sensor?

killermrob83
01-24-2008, 09:53 AM
My dad has a '99 CV that had the same problem on and off over about a one year time frame. Turned out to be the crank position sensor, not that it had gone bad, and this is the part that really seemed odd to me......somehow the short length of wiring from the sensor to the connector that plugs into the vehicle's wiring harness had come out of the retaining clip that keeps it from moving around/hanging down where it might get caught by some debris on the road or whatever, had come out of the retaining clip. I put the wiring back up under the clip and the vehicle has not failed to start for the past two years. Seems hard to believe, but as I said before, prior to this fix the car failed to start on about 8 occassions in a one year time period, for no reason at all, but somehow would start after enough door closing and hood shutting (vibration?) while trying to figure out what the problem was. Hope this helps!

robb2121
02-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Did you check yor crank or cam position sensor?

(i'm kinda haveing the same trouble my vic ran good before it went into phase. where would the crankshaft postion sensor be located on a '97 crown vic?)

robb2121

jaggdlynx
04-09-2008, 10:02 PM
I have been having a similar problem. I saw on here how everybody on here was stating ether the crankshaft position sensor, or a good chance of the harness under the headlamp, and I replaced the sensor, as well as the cam sensor (?), and my wiring is good, so I called myself "stuck". Well, then I noticed that anytime I'd turn the key, the first relay in the set of 3, which incudes the relay for the e.e.c. and the Fuel Pump Relay (drivers side), there's a popping noise. The popping only occurs when a relay is connecting in the first slot for the e.e.c. I'm just about clueless when it comes to electrical problems, so I'm asking for anybody's suggestions. My dad is saying it could be any of the wires behind the relay cluster, or just about ANYTHING, but he's not the most experienced with electrical problems either. So other than asking for suggestions, could somebody please explain to me what exactly the e.e.c. Is? My manual was pretty vague and I still don't have a keen grasp on what they're explaining. I am extremely greatful for any and all feedback!

hoviemn
06-15-2008, 06:56 AM
I have the same problem on a 90 Crown Vic, 302 with 175 000 miles. I can start it by squirting fuel in the throttle body for a few minutes after it warms up it starts getting fuel on its own and idles fine. Shut it down and crank it again and the same problem, turns over but wont fire even if it is warm it needs a shot of fuel in the T.B. to start again. I checked all the sensors I know of like TB position,aic,egr pos.,etc. All work and have the required voltage at the harness,fuel pres. #45,good spark on new plugs and wires,...I looked all over the internet and cant find anything else on this except a couple other guys with the same problem but no cure...Yet Any suggestions? Thanks

cmsorrells
06-19-2008, 12:13 AM
i have 94 crown vic...just open your trunk and see if there is a fuel cut off switch if its engaged push the red button down...a cop showed me that on mine when mine broke down on 19-41

rhandwor
06-22-2008, 07:40 PM
I would use a noid light and check for power to the injectors. You may have a bad plug in the harness. You stated you have spark,proper fuel pressure so the next step is power to the injectors. A plugged air filter will cause a no start. An engine that jumps time won't start. How many miles are on the timing chain?

Scrapper
06-29-2008, 01:32 AM
if it didn't work after that if plugs are getting gas you should know they'ed be wet...try taking hose of at throttle spray starting fuid in the throttle body if it fires you got a fuel problem going to the throttle body...goods luck..

glenn ernst
07-03-2008, 05:59 PM
Fixed the problem! Thanks to all for their interest and the helpful comments. The solution was to replace the fuel pump, even though tests indicated the pump supplied fuel at the correct pressure in a static test. Could it be that when pumping in to cylinders that perhaps offer some resistance the old pump could not deliver the needed quantity of fuel? Hope this helps others. Thanks again to the forum for providing the environment to get help.

Scrapper
07-03-2008, 10:20 PM
good deal guy...see when you turning starter over it takes juice from fuel pump and cut's off little power off pump....

heyyo302
07-17-2008, 08:23 AM
Seems you may an overvoltage condition. Need to get a voltmeter and test alternator with the engine revved to about 3000rpm. It should maintain a steady 14.5 volts. If it goes higher, replace the alternator, and consider replacing the battery as well. Over voltage will boil the electrolyte out of the battery. If the alternator tests ok, replace the battery anyway. The lights flickering can be caused by a battery with a bad cell. It causes the alternator to "hunt", basically from a no load condition. If problem not solve then may be somewhere engine have little problem. Push your car and try to start during pushing it to ahead

heyyo302
07-17-2008, 08:25 AM
You need to get a voltmeter and test alternator with the engine revved to about 3000rpm. It should maintain a steady 14.5 volts. If it goes higher, replace the alternator, and consider replacing the battery as well. If the alternator tests ok, replace the battery anyway. The lights flickering can be caused by a battery with a bad cell.

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