Heres the run down. Got Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.3L OHV FWD van with 92,000 on it. It's been sitting for 6-7 years and I finally got it running, but it runs like crap. Pull codes via self-diag. check engine light. Replaced all the components throwing codes, but still runs crappy. It sounds like a popping coming from the intake hose to the throttle body that happens randomly. It sometimes red-line in Park, and sometimes it bogs down to the point of stalling out. :banghead: Very annoying since I cant get it up passed 25 and on random occasions it work perfectly. I pulled codes one last time and a 26 code comes up.

Question = How do I fix the code 26 and reset the ECM? And if anyone knows what the problem is with the pooping and stalling, by all means tell me.:)

PS - I have a Maint. Req. light on, how do I reset it and what does it mean?

On a 1990 van code 26 is a fuel injector circuit problem. Read through the narrative for that code and note#4 here: http://www.allpar.com/fix/80s-codes.html Could be your popping noise. I think your maint light indicates scheduled maintenance is due. Not sure how to reset it.

EDIT - found this:http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=413322&highlight=maintenance+required+light+caravan Read last two posts.

PS - I have a Maint. Req. light on, how do I reset it and what does it mean?[/QUOTE]

I had a 1987 Voyager and the Maintenance Required light came on indicating Emissions Service needed--specifically, the EGR valve. They were notorious in those days for sticking and causing rough idle and running. So that may be part of your problem. I believe that turning off the light required getting up behind the gauge cluster and activating a spring return slide switch mounted on the rear of the cluster. It's been 20 years so I'm not absolutely sure about any of this. Good luck!

C.B.

thanks for the info but....

the code 26 has disappeared this morning (i didne do anything with any injector) and I wouldn't have the slight clue where to find the EGR valve. My haynes/clitons says it on the intake fleum on the right side and I've had a coulpe of ASE master techs tell me it under the intake manifold.

I'm more convinced than ever that you have a stuck EGR valve and I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I remember working on mine once but don't remember exactly where it was. I had a Factory Service Manual at the time and it led me right to it. I thought sure a repair manual would tell you or show you exactly since the Maintenance Required light would definitely be coming on for everyone. As I recall, I think it came on at around 15,000 miles for the EGR.

C.B.

what year is your van?

The EGR valve is very easy to replace (it's in a tight spot, but not hard at all for a DIY'er.)

I have a 98, and I replaced mine myself. Took me all of 20 minutes in and out.

His profile indicates a 1990 Grand Voyager.

C.B.

its a 90 grand voyger SE 3.3. i had a 92 grand caravan with a 3.3 and couldnt find the EGR valve on that 1 either.

I replaced the EGR on my '95 3.3 caravan a couple of years back.

looking at the van from front of car, the egr is behind the intake plenum (driver's side). there is an EGR tube going from the exhaust to the EGR. There are two bolts holding the EGR tube.. the bolts are extracted downward.

there is an electrical connector going to the egr valve.. I believe there is also vacum line going to it...

follow throttle body to the back of plenum and the EGR valve is the first assembly you will run into...

before I replaced the egr, it would not idle properly, would backfire and the engine felt as if it were 'choked'.

I hope this helps.. if you still have question let me know i'll try to take pic.

cap

Hideho. thats seems to be logical ill take some pics of the motor if i cant find it and see if AnYONE can locate it with me.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=891207&imageID=18068814&MyToken=705e0e26-1c63-4796-8751-357bbe113303
This is my motor I'm working with. I've photoshoped the compenet that I belive the EGR valve is.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=891207&imageID=18068646&MyToken=705e0e26-1c63-4796-8751-357bbe113303
This is it closer.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=891207&imageID=18068650&MyToken=705e0e26-1c63-4796-8751-357bbe113303
Now this is confusing. This is a random 2 prong connector next to the Idle air control valve and the TPS. This connector does reach to what I think is the EGR valve, but i don't see a connector point.
http://www.autozone.com/images/products/wl2/wl2egr387003.jpg This is the EGR valve Autozone has for my van.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but the EGR may not be the problem at all.
5 or 6 times now, I've seen the 3.3, 3.0 and 3.8L motors cough and choke, run rough, or the idle surge for no apparent reasons. and the ECM will throw stupid codes, sending you in a whirlwind of replacement parts..... that never really fixes them.

Try this:
Check your fuel pressure, or bite the bullet and replace the failing fuel pump. Either way, the regulator (built in toi the pump assembly) is probably shot.

Replace the EGR if you want to, but it wont really effect how the van runs as you say it does...

And don't buy the cheap pump from discount parts stores, buy a bosch assembly if you can find it... worth the extra $20 for the right part.

Most 1990 Plymouth mini vans 3.3 came without an egr, that was the intro year for the 3.3 in that vehicle.
The maintanace light comes on every 60,000 miles, and can only be reset through the main ECM.
Most coughing and sputtering is caused by a clogged Cat Converter, they get clogged around 100,000 miles.

There isn't much to go wrong on that model year van with NORMAL care.
I think that was their best mini van ever made.

Might be a dumb question but you say the van has been sitting for 6-7 years, have you drained and refilled the tank with fresh gas? Maybe your only problem. May want to try before spending money on parts(?)

Might be a dumb question but you say the van has been sitting for 6-7 years, have you drained and refilled the tank with fresh gas? Maybe your only problem. May want to try before spending money on parts(?)

I think that pentabob has a really good point here. The absolute worst thing that can happen to a vehicle is for it to sit for a long time without being driven. Seals harden, ports gum up, oil gels over, injectors clog, if it's not got enough antifreeze in it it can cause the block or head to crack...etc.

How much gas was in the tank while it sat for so long? Did you add any fresh gas? If the tank was full you should probably start by siphoning(or pumping) out as much as you can and then I would fill it up with higher octane (premium) to try and revitalize the remaining gas that's in there and also to help clean out your injectors. You should definitely at least check the fuel filter and while you have it off you can jump the fuel pump relay and pump all the gas in the tank out into some buckets through the open line before you hook the new filter back up. If the tank was partially empty then there is probably rust and crud and water in your tank from the season changes and condensation, plus the hard crusty buildup that forms as the old gas gradually evaporated. If you pump it out into buckets you will be able to see if there is water or crud being pumped through. If so you probably will have to drop the tank and clean it all out so it doesn't ruin your fuel pump.

Also, when a vehicle sits for a long time like that the injectors are really bad to get clogged up. I would reccommend some kind of pressurized fuel pressure cleaning system...which you may have to get done at an auto shop unless you want to buy the equipment required to do it yourself. You might even try some kind of injector or fuel system cleaner that you pour into the tank, but IMHO they won't work near as well.

Let us know what you find out.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but the EGR may not be the problem at all.
5 or 6 times now, I've seen the 3.3, 3.0 and 3.8L motors cough and choke, run rough, or the idle surge for no apparent reasons. and the ECM will throw stupid codes, sending you in a whirlwind of replacement parts..... that never really fixes them.

Try this:
Check your fuel pressure, or bite the bullet and replace the failing fuel pump. Either way, the regulator (built in toi the pump assembly) is probably shot.

Replace the EGR if you want to, but it wont really effect how the van runs as you say it does...

And don't buy the cheap pump from discount parts stores, buy a bosch assembly if you can find it... worth the extra $20 for the right part.


I don't know for certain about the 3.3 or 3.8, but I have a Caravan with the 3.0 and the fuel pressure regulator is on the fuel rail. I think that this is the case on 99.9% of vehicles. The only vehicles that I have seen that have a regulator in the pump are some of the GM fuel pump modules used on vortec engines with the "spider legs" type electronic injector.

The fuel pump does have a check valve which keeps the fuel from draining back into the tank via the pressure line while the pump is not running. I have seen these go bad quite often. Cycle the key about 4 times and then if it starts and runs better this could be a problem....usually once the engine starts and runs for a few seconds and the fuel pressure is built back up it will not cause you any drivability problems. Been driving my van for about 10 years now with this problem....just have to cycle the key when I try to start it to avoid long cranking times.

Yes, it's on the fuel rail :http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/10/c6/d5/0900823d8010c6d5/repairInfoPages.htm See figure 3.

ok i got it running by replacing the in tank fuel pump, the entire assembly. cleaned the tank the best i could and filled with fresh gas. I have replace the fuel filter now twice in 1 month. im thinking something is cloging the fuel pump strainer. the entire exhaust is brand new. i had a 92 grand caravan with the same everything and used my compuer on this 1 and there was no change so i know the computer is fine. ive running fuel system cleaner, oil change and treatment, coolant flush and treatment and still have the problem.

I read on another post some guy had the same problem.
It took him months to find 2 of the fuel injectors were intermitant.
He had contamination in his gas tank, the junk got into his fuel injectors.
Van worked fine when cold and at the expensive dealer shop, after it warmed up good, it would sputter.
He replaced the 2 bad injectors, problem was solved.

ok i got it running by replacing the in tank fuel pump, the entire assembly. cleaned the tank the best i could and filled with fresh gas. I have replace the fuel filter now twice in 1 month. im thinking something is cloging the fuel pump strainer. the entire exhaust is brand new. i had a 92 grand caravan with the same everything and used my compuer on this 1 and there was no change so i know the computer is fine. ive running fuel system cleaner, oil change and treatment, coolant flush and treatment and still have the problem.

I tend to agree with Bernard that the injectors are going to be your next place to look. You said you ran fuel system cleaner through it....was that simply the dump-in-tank type cleaner? If so, you might consider a pressurized concentrated fuel injector cleaner. You might shop around to see if there is a shop who has a decent price for cleaning your injectors...and weigh that against the cost of new injectors.

I tend to agree with Bernard that the injectors are going to be your next place to look. You said you ran fuel system cleaner through it....was that simply the dump-in-tank type cleaner? If so, you might consider a pressurized concentrated fuel injector cleaner. You might shop around to see if there is a shop who has a decent price for cleaning your injectors...and weigh that against the cost of new injectors.

I use to work with Firestone and ran a fuel system cleaner kit through the motor. (injector cleaner, combustion chamber cleaner, and throttle body cleaner. ) the injector cleaner is almost pure concentrate and its a tank dump.

now on the injectors. i was pulling a 26 code (bad injector circuit or injector) but now I'm not. I've listen to each injector of clicking and they all function.

Update guys. I picked up some STP injector cleaner super concentrate and dumped it into the tank which has next to no fuel in it. Ran it hard and it reved up real good then died to a sputter then reved up and died down to a sputter again. The check engine light came on and I pulled codes. Now I'm pulling a code 41 (open or shrt in the altenator field ciucit). Thus far the computer has thrown a code 25 (fixed), 26 (twice then cleared itself twice), and now a 41.

Why is the computer throwning codes left and right? I'm thinking the computer itself is bad. Anyone agree or disagree? And would that account for the sputtering, poping, and stalling? I'm still going to drop the fuel tank again to ensure the tank is clean and the fuel strainer on the pump isn't clogged.

Just because the injectors are all "clicking" doesn't necessarily mean they are good. If they are stopped up they can click all day long and never let any gas through. How did it look inside the gas tank when you pulled it the first time? Any rust, slime, mud, dirt, sludge, or water, etc?

Did it run any better AT ALL after you ran the STP injector cleaner through it?

The injector cleaner *system* that I am talking about actually hooks directly to the fuel rail or into the fuel line and the engine actually runs directly off of the cleaner. I don't care how "concentrated" the bottle you buy at the auto parts store says it is....the second you dump one pint of "concentrated" fuel injector cleaner into even just a couple gallons of gas that is in your tank (and there was probably more than that) then your cleaner becomes very diluted. For example....a one pint bottle of injector cleaner dumped into 2 gallons of gasoline means you have diluted your "concentrated" injector cleaner to about 6 parts out of 100! Compare that to a pressurized injector cleaner system where you will have 100% cleaner which is usually even stronger stuff than your typical stp type stuff anyway...imo. Plus, you can hook it up and let that concentrate soak in your fuel rail for as long as needed before even starting the process. I have seen this type of fuel system cleaner make a HUGE difference in clogged injectors that pour-in-tank type cleaners weren't even touching. You don't have to take my advice, but just keep in mind I am just trying to help you...unlike your mechanic, I have no reason to recommend high dollar services to you that don't really do anything.

If I were you, I wouldn't buy a computer just yet. Another friendly piece of advice: I don't think it's good for an engine to rev it up to extremely high RPM's with no load on the engine (if I read your post right)...good way to blow one up IMHO.

Good luck and let us know if you find out anything else.

ok guys ill make a video and post it with a link to it ans show you what im talking about maybe that will help a bit more.

ok guys ill make a video and post it with a link to it ans show you what im talking about maybe that will help a bit more.

I had a very similar problem with the engine "surging" and coughing. After a lot of procedures mentioned to you already, my mechanic and good friend got into the van and ran it for 20 seconds. Then, he told me it's either the spark plug wires or the distributor cap. Lo and behold, I started pulling plug wires off the distributor and the very first one I looked at had a green corrosion on the wire end and the distributor end. I replaced all the wires and have never seen the problem again. That was about 10K miles ago.

By the way. It's not really a "distributor cap" but the proper term escapes me at the moment. (I've been having this problem a lot since turning 55!)

the term is DIS (Distribulatorless Ignition System). The plug wires could have a factor in it and i know its not the DIS since if tested spark stright from it and got shocked to shit all 6 times and ran a multimeter on it see the correct voltage. I have it.

Now< I've neglected to mention for a long while that when I replaced the fuel pump, the tank was cleaned to the best i could do. i ran the van from a month straight and the surge and choking started. I had a feeling it was a mechanical fuel problem. i pulled the fuel filter and blow into it. a brand new filter no more than 1 month old was clogged completely.

I feel that the fuel line before the filter is clogged and the tank has stird up the sediment that was in it from sitting for 6+ years. Replacing the fuel line before the filter, the pump strianer and the tank should clear up the problem. would any1 else agree?

I think you found it dragon
bob

I think you found it dragon
bob

i hope so. im goin to drop the tank today and take out the pump. im goin to place it in a seperate bucket away from the tank with some fresh fuel and run it to see it anything runs different. if it runs find im gettin a new tank and fuel lines. (complete, from pump to injector rail.) if this is the problem, can anyone tell me a place to get a 20 gallon tank for the van at a good price? i know of 1 place but id like others.

thanks soo much for the help with this damn van guys.

update gentlemen. i dropped the tank and in it was gas soacked senitment crap. its crushes but i hope it dissolves. ive knocked at the tank with a rubber mallet and got a bunch of this crap out but there is still more in it. besides a wire brush and elbow grease what would get this crap out?

I've read of guys having fuel tanks steam cleaned at radiator shops.

I know this sounds completely obvious and perhaps you have done this, but our 1991 Voyager kept throwing misc codes and driving like crap. It would run rough, stall and refuse to restart etc.- we replaced the EGR, the TPS, the fuel pump... It ended up being the O2 sensor, a lousy $3 part.

I know this sounds completely obvious and perhaps you have done this, but our 1991 Voyager kept throwing misc codes and driving like crap. It would run rough, stall and refuse to restart etc.- we replaced the EGR, the TPS, the fuel pump... It ended up being the O2 sensor, a lousy $3 part.

pump got it running and i replaced the TPS to clear a code. now ive found out that the VIN calls for an EGR valave, the engine has the electircal point for it but there is no port for it what so ever. O2 sensor ive replaced as well.

im possive the problem is fuel

getlemen, the problem is over. it was a mass biuld up of loos sediment in the tank chocking out the fuel. thank you so mucj for the help of the past while.