May we finally have a OT subforum here in the modelling section?

No much more words needed. I'm not for sure the OT spammer/reader but...

I see that often people post here OT questions since our community is the Modelling Forum, not the whole AF. I don't remember, may be the question was also debated yet.

I guess it's a bit frustrating see your thread moved in a community where you know nobody....

PS: obviously this don't mean that I'm against mods that actually done their job following rules ;) :)

We average less than one thread moved a week.

Oh, I thought this was the off topic section.

We average less than one thread moved a week.

Plizzz Ray do housekeeping here, thanks :)

I totally agree with you Gio.

It is a shame that we - as a modeling community - are unable/not allowed to once in a while BS amongst ourselves about something OT to modeling per se. The more so if it's only averaging once in a week.

I know that AF in a wider context is not about modeling but at the same time you can't ignore the fact that whether by accident or design, AF has also spawned one of the largest and most active scale automotive forums around.

I also am not meaning this that the mods are bad, merely that rule they have to enforce could be changed (and an OT sub-forum could be created ;) )

Peace to all and please don't ban me :D

Nice point you got there Gio.

I voted Yes.

off topic does not = bullshit.

the problem is that too many cannot distinguish between the two and end up doing nothing but BS in an off-topic forum. The point still stands, a set of off-topic forums do exist and well, it's not our fault you don't go in there to post off topic discussions. The only reason those same off-topic forums exist is to keep the main forums clean of off topic threads.

off topic does not = bullshit.

the problem is that too many cannot distinguish between the two and end up doing nothing but BS in an off-topic forum. The point still stands, a set of off-topic forums do exist and well, it's not our fault you don't go in there to post off topic discussions. The only reason those same off-topic forums exist is to keep the main forums clean of off topic threads.
:shakehead

Guys, this comes up on a reasonably regularly and I'm just as against it as I've ever been. First off, if a thread has at least something to do with the section but is otherwise off-topic, we tend to leave it here for a while before moving it (and usually leave a redirect too). Secondly, there is no reason not to venture outside the modelling section, could be useful and fun. Remember, this section was added quite a while after AF was set up, and while it's become very popular (thank you everyone for that!), it is still part of AF. And lastly, there is very real danger that the AF CM OT section will eventually or even very soon distract from what people joined this in the first place - building models and sharing one's hobby with others.

it's not our fault you don't go in there to post off topic discussions

Sometime I feel you extreme and irrational, d-monkey (despite I agree with you on the matter LOL) BUT the START was the thought of the modelling community.

Also may be there's a misunderstanding: OT here for me is "modelling OT" , announcements like modelling exibit (that was moved today on the exibit forum.... :nono:) or so. There's skype or the PM system to chat about the girl's lingerie :D :D :evillol: :naughty: :naughty:

Sometime I feel you extreme and irrational, d-monkey (despite I agree with you on the matter LOL) BUT the START was the thought of the modelling community.

Also may be there's a misunderstanding: OT here for me is "modelling OT" , announcements like modelling exibit (that was moved today on the exibit forum.... :nono:) or so. There's skype or the PM system to chat about the girl's lingerie :D :D :evillol: :naughty: :naughty:

I like to keep it brief and to the point as it makes things easier to understand.
If I really was irrational, would you have agreed?

The point still stands, a set of off-topic forums do exist and well, it's not our fault you don't go in there to post off topic discussions. The only reason those same off-topic forums exist is to keep the main forums clean of off topic threads.


I must say, this place seems totally different than the days back when we had just one forum. IMO, I don`t think there should be an agressive effort to "clean up" the main modeling forum. In a cluttered and congested forum, OK. But in this forum, I come here daily and rarely see a half page of new posts in an entire day! Compared to 4 or 5 years ago, this place seems to have nowhere near the vitality it used to.

All IMO, of course.

I am divided on the question of an OT forum though. It seems when the project sub-forums opened up, we became much less of a "community". Will we further alienate builders we are used to seeing post? IMO, if a post has anything to do with modeling, like announcements etc, we should leave in the main modeling forum until we actually have reason to start moving threads.

Well said there, Hawk

I don't think we need an off topic section in here, personally. Rather, a non-automotive topic, but I don't really for-see that ever happening, as this is AUTOMOTIVE FORUMS DOT COM.

There are a lot of us who don't only build cars, and would like to share with the friends we've made here, but I know the die hard car guys would shun this.

oh well I guess this is a worthless post. I'm voting no, because I LIKE how clean it stays in here.

I don't think we need an off topic section in here, personally. Rather, a non-automotive topic, but I don't really for-see that ever happening, as this is AUTOMOTIVE FORUMS DOT COM.


It has happened, just nobody posts there:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1797

I don't understand. Why would you want to talk about anything other than models? :)

It has happened, just nobody posts there:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1797
Maybe you guys could sticky it as a link in the car modeling forum?

Frankly, I feel like the AF modeling forum is my second family. I can ask stupid questions or be a noob without being flamed at too much and will actually get some answers or at least links to answers. BUT this only relates to modeling. If I have a question about say computers or what ever, I have to look for another forum or other data on the internet.
I'm a very stubborn person when it comes to forums or game servers. I stick to those few until they die out or I get too pissed to want to visit. And I settle with the random search results when it comes to OT topics. I found AF some three years ago and haven't participated in any other online forum related to modeling. Sure, I may lurk a few but haven't posted or even registered. I have only once ventured into the other parts of AF..
So, my reply in short would be yes to an OT forum, but no to a BS forum.

Steve

Yes, please.

Even if I don't have the time to build models, i could atleast talk about vaguely model related bullshit.

Let's all talk in a great OT part, we need smalltalk and bullshit forum

I see no need for it, but an OT sub forum is much like a channel on the T.V., I don't have to watch any channel I don't want to. If it is deemed necessary, those who don't want to use it don't have to.

Many other boards have been watered down with OT chatter to the point many of the regulars who visit for the original intended subjects no longer participate. So maybe corralling the B.S. or OT stuff would help keep the clutter down?

My life is full of OT subjects, that is why I come here, to interact with like minded individuals who share this common interest. Otherwise it would be just another forum of whatever, not automotive modeling, or one of the other categories I visit here for the purpose of interacting with the people who are like minded. Just my two cents...

My life is full of OT subjects, that is why I come here, to interact with like minded individuals who share this common interest. Otherwise it would be just another forum of whatever, not automotive modeling, or one of the other categories I visit here for the purpose of interacting with the people who are like minded. Just my two cents...

Well said, Sir!

I most definitely agree we need an OT section. So many of us (including myself) come on AF specifically to talk in this forum, and nowhere else. Yet even motorsports-related or car-related topics get moved from here off to some part of the site I've never been to, and no one who I want to read them reads them. Many of us are friends or at least acquiescences, we should be able to chat about stuff other than models here. Every OTHER modeling board has an OT section. :p

Okay, so lets say we do have an OT subforum.

Firstly, there is no guarantee that the administrator will set it up for us. There were enough cries of anguish and name calling last time new subfolders were added. Why would he want to go through that again?

Next, what exactly will it be for? If a free for all with little or no regulation, then there is a big chance the folder will quickly degenerate into a haven for post whores and time wasters. Even non-modelling people will get in on the act for the purposes of inflating their postcounts and/or egos. Do we want to that in our Car Modelling section?

On the other hand, too many rules will mean the mods have to do a lot of cleanup, which inevitably leads to people becoming outraged and angry that their thread is moved, merged, deleted or their “rights” are somehow infringed. Again, not the sort of thing that creates harmony amongst us.

So what is it meant to be for and can it achieve anything the larger world of AF doesn’t already provide? Personally I’m not against it, but I’m yet to be convinced it will be of any use.

why do we need one here when these (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=715) exist?

why do we need one here when these (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=715) exist?

ROFL, you're whishless drunkenmonkey :wink: : the point is the community, so if you mean that your community is AF you're right: you don't need other subforums: to my side I brought up the question just to let (us) to think about the community point.

Phil: I guess we haven't a NEED, just a desire. And since the Forum, like I said other times isn't done from the admin or the mods team, but from the people's contribution, he'll do what we like: also I believe Twospirit is helpful and accomodating enough to help us, I felt him great when I had to do.

And for rules & Co: Phil, those is your job: you (well I'll say Ray since actually I feel the most job come from him: I'll not agree ever at 100% with Ray but we have to thank him for the huge job, he answer daily to all novice's boring question....) -coming back to the point- you own some simple rules to manage the actual subforums: now you will moderate an hyphotetic OT just with GOOD SENSE & INSIGHT, and I believe you all active mods own enough.

To me OT here should be modelling related OT, so exibits or car's discussions that we want to share with friends here.

Or better: actually we don't need a OT subforum: we need just a bit of elasticity in the mods rule's interpretation: I would like if you don't move stuff like exibits announcements or car news etc. on the general (non-modelling) OT section: to you the job of discriminate what deserve to stay here ;)

I personally vote no. We finally got all of the subforums everyone wanted and nowadays AF seems almost like a wasteland. AF used to be a lot of fun and I couldn't wait to get to my pc after a stressful day at work and see what wonderful projects are being created. Not so anymore; I check in regularly but for the most part AF's model forums have fallen down a notch or two. Don't get me wrong, I still call AF my "model home" but things have slowed a bit. :2cents:

I personally vote no. We finally got all of the subforums everyone wanted and nowadays AF seems almost like a wasteland. AF used to be a lot of fun and I couldn't wait to get to my pc after a stressful day at work and see what wonderful projects are being created. Not so anymore; I check in regularly but for the most part AF's model forums have fallen down a notch or two. Don't get me wrong, I still call AF my "model home" but things have slowed a bit. :2cents:

I agree with you Antonio, I think back 2 years ago at all the cool builds being posted compared to now..and the board has slowed down alot. That and seeing the same 4 or 5 people comment on each others builds and no one else's gets old. I see no need for an OT forum here, for the same reasons Tonio writes.

Pfffffffffrrrt,

fook that... Just noticed there's an Off topic section right there, I was stoked! Gee, they finally listen to us. But turns out it's a lazy and insensitive thing.

pretty lazy and not really sensitive of just merging the big 'off topic' thread in here. Lazy in not even taking the time of considering what people want. Lazy in the term of not doing what's necessary and just putting useless clutter that we don't care about in the main car modeling section.

insensitive in the way you guys decide. Guess it's like in a real dictatorship, we'll just have to do with what we are given and all hail the gods of AF.


What's next?

btw, many thanks for those who put it here, thanks for not listening.
Don't point the finger at me if it doesn't work.
Don't you guys understand that if we don't post in the general off topic thread, that is for a reason?


Power to the people, vive la révolution!


On a lighter note...

Meh.

Oli

LOL Oli :D

Guys I don't care it: I have not so much time lately also to browse the phenomenal thing like the ken's MG Ferrari or Dave&ClayK current threads: I brought up the question just to let all to think about the COMMUNITY thing, so, think another bit LOL what you done is unuseful :D

Guess it's like in a real dictatorship, we'll just have to do with what we are given and all hail the gods of AF.



You can call it whatever you want, but let me point out some things:

AF is a privately owned site.
AF costs money to run, every sub forum increases bandwidth and more bandwidth costs more money - I don't see many people here with purple stars indicating they're paying members of AF.

As for the OT link, it was done as a joke - you obvioulsy didn't get it :smooch:

You can call it whatever you want, but let me point out some things:

AF is a privately owned site.
AF costs money to run, every sub forum increases bandwidth and more bandwidth costs more money - I don't see many people here with purple stars indicating they're paying members of AF.

As for the OT link, it was done as a joke - you obvioulsy didn't get it :smooch:

http://images.google.ca/url?q=http://www.uncov.com/assets/2007/6/29/fry-see-what-you-did-there-scaled.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGpI2WQzLyRUc73tCyWGxkaKgTS2Q

As for the OT link, it was done as a joke - you obvioulsy didn't get it :smooch:That much is true. As for the rest of Rays comments, I couldn't agree more.

The link was my doing, no one else and it was done as a joke and only temporary. Considering the grief/anguish I and some of the CM mods recieved when we were discussing expanding the CM sections the last time (which by the way was first requested by the members themselves), I figure creating a link to AF's Completely Off Topic section, was the best course of action.
But apparently it seems that (much like last time), alot are not happy.

Therefore, lets go down the list...

It is a shame that we - as a modeling community - are unable/not allowed to once in a while BS amongst ourselves about something OT to modeling per se. The more so if it's only averaging once in a week.

I know that AF in a wider context is not about modeling but at the same time you can't ignore the fact that whether by accident or design, AF has also spawned one of the largest and most active scale automotive forums around.
No one is stopping anyone from posting BS posts, so long as its done in the appropiate section. AF already has a massive OT section, and such posts should be done there. (Providing the rules are followed in that section.)And yes, AF has spawn one of the biggest and active CM forums on the net, and creating a OT section, IMO, would be distractive at the least and stop some from posting about their models. If some think the amounts of CM posts are small, imagine with a OT section, there will hardly be any. :eek:

Many of us are friends or at least acquiescences, we should be able to chat about stuff other than models here. Every OTHER modeling board has an OT section. :pThat is true, with one exception, those are Car Modeling Boards. AF is basically for all intent and purposes a Automotive Chat Board, hence its name, not a Car Modeling Board. Plus, AF does have its own OT forum, and a mighty big one at that. There is no reason why the CM members (oh, let me correct that, AF members in CM) cannot venture out to other areas of AF. The way some are talking it seems that AF is part of CM and not the other way around. :screwy:

Just noticed there's an Off topic section right there, I was stoked! Gee, they finally listen to us. But turns out it's a lazy and insensitive thing.
pretty lazy and not really sensitive of just merging the big 'off topic' thread in here. Lazy in not even taking the time of considering what people want. Lazy in the term of not doing what's necessary and just putting useless clutter that we don't care about in the main car modeling section.
Excuse me? I find it quite ironic you calling my temporary solution as lazy and insensitive. Most mods and members alike know that I love making new sections and making the members happy. The moderating staff does take into consideration what the members want, and at the same time weigh all the options and pros and cons of any issue. I take over once called upon or if there is a need for creating sections, or policy.
Also, I also find it quite ironic you saying that my link in the CM section pointing to AF's COT is useless clutter, when in turn creating an OT section bringing lots of useless posts is not. :rolleyes:

Reading this thread, one gathers that alot are saying there is a sense of Community and as such want a OT section for that Community. Yet the reality is that what you guys want is a selected Community. One that has nothing to do with AF. Well I am sorry to break the news, but once again...
and let me spell it out for you all...

C a r...M o d e l i n g ...i s... p a r t ...o f ...A u t o m o t i v e...F o r u m s.

If you all truly believe in that Community spirit, then be a part of the whole community and if you want to post off topic stuff, do so in the appropiate AF COT section. Go out and venture the other areas of AF. You may be surprise as to what you would see.

As for the subject at hand of creating an OT sub section, nothing that has been mentioned has convinced me that creating it would be beneficial. Therefore, it will not be created and the link (which was temporary) to COT, will now stay permanently.

As for allowing announcements, any one of the mods can create a new Sticky thread in which all announcements can be posted to it.

TS out

...the link (which was temporary) to COT, will now stay permanently.
Wow TS, you make that sound like some kind of punishment - sort of permanent "scar" that we will have to carry for the rest of our lives to remind us of the original sin of discussing an OT section :rofl: (I'm sure there's a Biblical parallel in there somewhere ;))

OK, no probs.
End of discussion to me.

Anyone will take his responsability for his done, for what concern other member's forum's life.

Twospirit: you're joking, a community isn't a box, so also a prison would be a community, for sure you're looking from outside the thing.

The matter isn't so important, may be the less important we have to discuss, however the way that gone the discussion is precious to me as a thermometer of people, mods, admin's behavior.

I don't see many people here with purple stars indicating they're paying members of AF.

OK 1 more Sir, may now I order my personal OT section? LOL J/K

The moderating staff does take into consideration what the members want, and at the same time weigh all the options and pros and cons of any issue.

Also, I also find it quite ironic you saying that my link in the CM section pointing to AF's COT is useless clutter, when in turn creating an OT section bringing lots of useless posts is not. :rolleyes:

C a r...M o d e l i n g ...i s... p a r t ...o f ...A u t o m o t i v e...F o r u m s.



Eitherway if I agree or not, thanks for clearing your view out.

I posted my thread as a 'kick in the nuts'-thread; just to know what was your ideas.

I agree on many fronts, CM is part of AF: that's quite true, well, i 'd be a monkeybrain to disagree on that fact. But it's also true that car modeling, albeit a part of the bigger organisation that is AF, is actually quite a niche in carland. Atleast that's how I see it. compared to real car guys, these modelcar aficionado's are, how i see it... very much into cars, but not neccessarily real ones.

They come to AF (and more then often directly towards Car Modeling, because they feel that place is a home. And to be honest, what makes the place so great is not the moderators, is not the infrastructure, is not the icons... No, it's the people. Car modeling is a community, and moreover it's a community based on a common interest. This common interest (scale cars) makes for relations, friendships and creates relationships.

But now, and here comes the point of the story. Car Modeling is a niche, you will surely agree. But the CM-section has grown to be a huge community of interest, with social relations being made.

So, in my opinion (humbly) I think making a separate OT-thread isn't such a big deal, and will keep them (and me) happy.

What's the problem? I think you can still delete it if it doesn't work, right?



Either way. Just saying.