Pro Black-washing????

:alien2: ive done a search end all, but i want to know what you pros out there use for your black washing???:alien2:

On white or light colored cars, I use Tamiya X-66 grey diluted in Tamiya thinners to create a wash, on dark colored cars, I use Tamiya X-18 Satin Black diluted in Tamiya thinnersro create the wash.
If you go to www.tamiya.com and look on the English site, they have a tips section at the bottow left of the screen which explains how to black-wash a car/model.

Ray

i use something called the Detailer its a premixed water based wash available in a ton of colors i use it for panel lines, grill detail, and interior detail.

Lownslow,
where can i find this detailer stuff???:confused:

Fullblood,
www.micromark.com has the detailer weathering and detailing washes.
You should look there.

Ray

Ray
Thanks for the link , but is there anyway that i can just get the BLACK black-wash instead of buying the whole kit:confused:

Maybe it's already obvious, but it should be pointed out that usually an enamel paint is used for the black (or grey) wash on top of a lacquer base color (or lacquer clear coat on top of enamel / acrylic base color).
The reason being enamel thinner (used in the "wash" part) doesn't disturb the lacquer coat.

Acrylic doesn't work well for washing (at least for me) as it's too runny.

Actually, I prefer to use acryllics to create a wash, their thinners for acryllics are nowhere near as hot as enamel thinners when you are washing over lacquers.

Fullblood, I don't know how you will get them separate, why don't you just make your own wash with acryllics?

Ray

thats what im thinking of doing ray. right now all i have is testors acrilycs, will these do and can i use just ordinary water to thin acrylics for blackwashing?

thats what im thinking of doing ray. right now all i have is testors acrilycs, will these do and can i use just ordinary water to thin acrylics for blackwashing?

Well, you won't know until you try. Isopropyl alcohol would be better than water.

Also, some enamel thinners contain lacquer thinners as well. I found out that the hardway using some Model Masters Airbrush Thinner on Tamiya lacquers.

India Drawing Ink can also be used as a wash, it is permanent but it can be rinsed off withwater if done right away if you do not like it. Enamels probably flow a little better than acrylics but mistakes ar easier to clean up with the acrylics.

Originally posted by 935k3
India Drawing Ink can also be used as a wash, it is permanent but it can be rinsed off withwater if done right away if you do not like it. Enamels probably flow a little better than acrylics but mistakes ar easier to clean up with the acrylics.

Oh well, different people different experiences different preferences :D

I use Tamiya spray lacquer and then wash / panel line detail with testor enamel. Cleaning up the enamel or wiping of mistakes is as easy as wetting a microbrush with testor brush cleaner (not thinner) and start wiping.

Then again, I'm thinking about switching to enamel spray in some cases for my body color so I might have to use acrylic for washing. :cool:

Satin/Falt black - Enamel or Acrylic, heavily thinned.

Citadel Black ink

Tamiya XF69 Nato Black is quite useful for some car colours.
XF63 German Grey

For detail parts that u want it to dry really fast, try using smoke acrylic. I use Gunze Sangyo Smoke Gray + a little bit of blue water based pen ink (Pilot G1 blue) for washing engine parts and other small details.:D

ive been trying to do some black washing ut it doesnt seems to be working weel, im using testors bottle paint because thats all i have right now, im using some black testors acrylc paint thinned w/ water and it just seem to beed up on the part i want to black wash???? WTF can some one help me please:bloated:

Usually, you have to use two different kinds of paint for washing.
The body color shouldn't be affected by the solution of the washing paint.
Enamel on lacquer based acrylic works.
Water based acrylic on enamel works, too.
And water based acrylic on lacquer based acrylic also works.

You can't really do washing if you only have one kind, even though completely dried paint isn't supposed to be dissolved so easily.

I'd recommend to buy a fine pen at some of those art supply stores.

Also, you can drop excessively thinned black at corners, and let the capillary action flow the black paint along the grooves. You can obtain even finer lines by doing this.

lol thisi isnt for the car body, im trying to black wash a tranny and engine block:)

Originally posted by fullbloodchop01
ive been trying to do some black washing ut it doesnt seems to be working weel, im using testors bottle paint because thats all i have right now, im using some black testors acrylc paint thinned w/ water and it just seem to beed up on the part i want to black wash???? WTF can some one help me please:bloated:

The problem is surface tension, water is not the proper thinner to use with acrylics although it does certainly thin the paint. In the future get hold of the appropriate thinner, in the mean time use some dishwashing detergent in your watered down paint. You only need a tiny spec, so just dab the end of a cocktail stick into the detergent then dab into the thinned paint, that's it!

Originally posted by flyonthewall


The problem is surface tension, water is not the proper thinner to use with acrylics although it does certainly thin the paint. In the future get hold of the appropriate thinner, in the mean time use some dishwashing detergent in your watered down paint. You only need a tiny spec, so just dab the end of a cocktail stick into the detergent then dab into the thinned paint, that's it!
thanks FOTW but what is the best thinner? do you think that alcohol will work better than water? also i want to know what i should thin my paint in so i can use the right amount of detergent, and by the way what does the detergent do any ways?

Originally posted by hirofkd
Usually, you have to use two different kinds of paint for washing.
The body color shouldn't be affected by the solution of the washing paint.
Enamel on lacquer based acrylic works.
Water based acrylic on enamel works, too.
And water based acrylic on lacquer based acrylic also works.



That's good but what do you do.... when your main body is acrylic?
I like using Tamiya acrylics with the air brush I have some trouble doing panel lines when the paint is thinned down using Isopropyl alcohol.
The paint dries way too fast and if I screw up it pisses me off!:mad:

Help if you can't oh well:)

UI will order some Gundam marker ! but for now, I use some Acrylic Black with Water... easy to wash and make a nice job......

Originally posted by fullbloodchop01

thanks FOTW but what is the best thinner? do you think that alcohol will work better than water? also i want to know what i should thin my paint in so i can use the right amount of detergent, and by the way what does the detergent do any ways?

Best thinner for acrylic paint???...erm...err...:thinkerg: Acrylic paint thinner!!!:finger:

As i say, you only need the tinniest spec of detergent so use the cocktail stick. The detergent breaks the the surface tension - haven't u ever seen that thing with the matchstick? Nevermind! Use things like can lids, bottle top or artist palettes for mixing your paint.

Originally posted by flyonthewall


Best thinner for acrylic paint???...erm...err...:thinkerg: Acrylic paint thinner!!!:finger:

As i say, you only need the tinniest spec of detergent so use the cocktail stick. The detergent breaks the the surface tension - haven't u ever seen that thing with the matchstick? Nevermind! Use things like can lids, bottle top or artist palettes for mixing your paint.
:flipa: :flipa: :flipa: im a little slow today:frog:
and what about the alcohol??? i dont have any ACYLIC PAINT THINNER on hand right now

Originally posted by Mr Mario


That's good but what do you do.... when your main body is acrylic?
I like using Tamiya acrylics with the air brush I have some trouble doing panel lines when the paint is thinned down using Isopropyl alcohol.
The paint dries way too fast and if I screw up it pisses me off!:mad:

Help if you can't oh well:)
I avoid using water based paint for the body, but if I don't have any choice, (like when I was in the U.S., and couldn't get Mr. Color so easily,) I use micron pigma .005, Rotling drawing pen, or even 0.3mm mechanical pencil.

Originally posted by fullbloodchop01

what about the alcohol???


al·co·hol
(lk-hôl, -hl)
n.
A colorless volatile flammable liquid, C2H5OH, synthesized or obtained by fermentation of sugars and starches and widely used, either pure or denatured, as a solvent and in drugs, cleaning solutions, explosives, and intoxicating beverages. Also called ethanol, ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol.
Intoxicating liquor containing alcohol.
Any of a series of hydroxyl compounds, the simplest of which are derived from saturated hydrocarbons, have the general formula CnH2n+1OH, and include ethanol and methanol.
:flipa:

I dont know about using it as a thinner, drink some and see what happens:bloated: :D

Just carry on and use the water for what your doing, i was just pointing out that there is a proper thinner. I do use water to thin acrylics when doing panel lines and sometime with washes as its not going to attack the underlying paint so much. Use the detergent and also experiment with larger ratios of water to paint.

Isopropyl alcohol = rubbing alcohol, go to your local drugstore and ask them for it, if they don't have it I'll buy you a new kit ;)

Mr. Mario, then maybe you should try clearcoating with a lacquer like Tamiya TS-13. Just be careful to lightly mist your first 4-5 coats on to build a barrier for the wet coats.

Originally posted by daggerlee
Mr. Mario, then maybe you should try clearcoating with a lacquer like Tamiya TS-13. Just be careful to lightly mist your first 4-5 coats on to build a barrier for the wet coats.

Hey I never thought of that!!!:)
Have you ever tried it? If so how long do you let the body cure for (using tamiya acrylics) before you apply the lacquer clear coat? I never tried it!

Man you a smart guy!!:sun:

ok thank guys i think i have a pretty goood solution goin but, the main question now is how do i apply the stuff??? do i just brush it onto the part and wait for it to dry????

thats a good tutorial but what im talkin about is on small parts, like engines ans other little pieces like that:)

If I'm understanding you right, you're trying to make the transmission look dirty and greasy, right? For that, I'd get some black pastels and grind it up. Then I mix that with some alcohol and brush it on. Then, try not to handle it, as it will rub off. You can also dust it on with a brush and without the alcohol. Both ways will work. I use this with my military models.

Edit: and I like that avatar fullblood. VERY nice;)

yea i like my avatar also, but im not trying to get the engine to look dit, what im trying to do is acent shadows on parts of a vehicle,(suspension, engine) like litle spaces tha should be shaded in to give it that authentic look

Sorry man. I can't help ya with that.

I see what you mean.
Well, coat the part with sliver, with enough thickness.
After it's completely dry, apply thinned black to cover the entire part.
Then, shortly after, moisten a cloth or cotton swab with water or thinner, and rub the surface. The paint remains, where you can't reach.
Or, moisten a wide and flat brush with thinner, and gently rub the surface to dissolve the black to reviled the underlining color.
Water base acrylic shouldn't be water soluble, after it's completely dry, so this should work. I don't know about using alcohol though. It might be too hot (strong) for this task.

thanks man, now thats what i needed to help
PS how the ITR turbo kit?let me know

MR Mario, probably at LEAST a week. You want your acrylics to form some strong crosslinks before you clearcoat. :)

Originally posted by daggerlee
MR Mario, probably at LEAST a week. You want your acrylics to form some strong crosslinks before you clearcoat. :)

I took your advice and purchased some tamiya and testors lacquer clear coat and asked the guys at my local Hobby Shop and they said
"DON'T SPRAY lacquer clear coat on acrylic or else it will crack and eat away and look like crap"

I was like really.....Don't get me wrong and I mean not to shoot down your help but is this guy blowing air out of his arse or what? I rarley post but I on this board..but I'm on it everyday and respect everyone's opinion.
So can set the record straight....I'm kinda ...well not sure about it. And if you are right :p hooo saves a trip to my local hobby shop.

Thanks:silly2:

He's probably telling you a truth, and so are the people on the forum. There're many acrylic paints, so each responds to clear coat differently.
Mr. Color and Tamiya spray synthetic lacquer acrylics are very strong, and they don't crack.
Mr. Hobby Color and Tamiya acrylics are water soluble and it might crack. Or more specifically, solvent of clear coat will dissolve the paint, reveal the primer and screw up the finish.
I never had a paint being cracked by clear coat. (strange...)
The rule of thumb is to use clear, which is incompatible with the body color, and that's the safest way.
Another way is to spray very light coat for the first 3 coats or so. It has to be extremely light; almost like letting a body go through a mist of clear. That way, solution evaporates before it start attacking the body paint, and after 3 layers or so, body color is coated with clear, and you are ready for more wet and thick coat.
When I'm in doubt, I experiment. Perhaps, that's what you might want to, and you can share the result in the forum. :)

hiro's advice is sound. Basically, what your hobby guy is trying to tell you, is that the solvent in lacquer clear coats is very strong, and could melt the acrylic finish IF you're not careful. The way us modelers get around it is to spray the first 3-5 coats VERY lightly, from a farther distance than you would normally spray a coat. The idea is like hiro said, is for the solvent to evaporate quickly so that it doesn't have too much time to cause serious damage to the paint. Even then, it's tricky, so that's why you need to let your paint be nice and cured before you try it.

Once the initial "barrier" coat of clear is on, you can start spraying on slightly heaver coats until you get to your wetcoats. That barrier of clear you misted on in the first 3-5 coats protects the acrylic paint from the solvent of the later coats. I can't give you a good guideline on how many coats you should use, I think you could try asking jay, who used this technique on his S2000 which was painted in custom mix of Tamiya acrylics and clearcoated in TS13.

You can ask me all you want, but daggerlee just said everything that I would on the matter... ;)

Great thanks for all your guys help "hirofkd & daggerlee" and anyone else. ;)

I'll try that and if it screws up oh well...I can always strip it. I'll first try it on a cheap AMT kit I bought today or maybe I'll feel brave and try it on my Tamiya kits in progress. . I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

:D