Rust/weathering crits, please! VW bus,

I wouldn't be surprised if this gets moved into the WIP section, and I wouldn't really mind in any case. This thread, though, isn't a WIP but more an appeal to the peanut gallery for some crits regarding my rusty, weathered VW bus.

I got this from a good buddy who actually builds models (sometimes) even though he does his damnedest to not admit it. I decided it would be ultra rad to build it as a Hoodride (Google it if you're not hip to exactly what this is). So I wanted to make it rusty and sorta clapped out. Then I thought, it sorta is an emerging style to retain a good patina on an old car; I didn't want to clear over it, though, like some do, but I did want to do something a little innovative. Since the bus has such a well defined separation line between the top and bottom, and they are so often painted two-tone, it would be neat to do it two-tone with rust and fresh paint. To accent the reddish rust, I thought a cream color would be great. So I painted the top Tamiya Racing White, and hit the bottom with some rusty colored paints and pastel chalks and this is what I've got so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/busbucket1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/willimo/busbucket2.jpg

I intend to use some Gundam Markers (if they make an orange one!) to add an orange separation line between the cream and rust.

Anyway, so far comments on it have been:

"The painted top and the rust just looks weird, and bad."

"There should be some paint leftover on the bottom, it's uncommon to find such a uniformly rusted car, especially with no oxidized paint that hasn't come off yet."

"The top is too shiny."

"The painted top and the rust just looks bad, and weird."

What comments do you have? Is it good, bad, what have I done wrong and what can I improve? I am poor at judging my own work, particularly weathering, so I would love some input. Thanks all!

Forget what they say your just at the beging of the project after your dune it will look just right. Just use your rustall kit and some chalk no tha V-dub. Keep working.

How about instead of making us look up 'hoodride', you tell us what it is, or at least what it means to you? There is no Wiki for hoodride. Hoodride.com does not appear to have a definition. A defn on Flickr (of all places) is-

HoodRide - a classic vehicle (mostly aircooled Volkswagen) where the owner has made improvements only in speed, power or suspension (lowered axles, new rims and tires), while preserving as much of the original body and paint as possible (no matter how rusty).

Doesn't that kinda shoot down the fresh white paint?

As for what can you do to make it better, it's all in the pics- get some. If you want opinions and ideas, show us some pics of exactly the look you're trying to recreate with your build. There are so many different appearences of rust that you will have to pick a look and then do your best to recreate it specifically.

Artisticly (and this is nothin' but a useless opinion), I'm totally not diggin' the fresh paint top and rusted bottom. :disappoin Don't know why, but it's just striking me wrong. I can kinda see some validity and coolness to the defn above, but letting half of it be rusted and half of it be pristine seems very halfassed somehow of whoever is looking after this vehicle. :dunno: It seems to me to strike just the same note of coolness as kids who buy the funkiest and cheapest body kit they can for their wannabe tuner car, and then leave the kit parts primer color. :smokin:

But I think also it's an obsicle to the viewer understanding and relating to the build. The viewer perhaps thinks "Well, what's going on here? Why is the top not weathered? Was the builder just not skilled enough to do both? Or did it just not occur to him? He couldn't seriously have intended this look, could he?", and then walks away in confusion or disappointment. :2cents:

(I totally hope this is taken in the spirit it was intended- critique not criticism. I almost never offer an opinion of an idea here, I suppose out of fear that it will be taken the wrong way or that feelings will be hurt.)

Otherwise I like the rust streaking under the window pillars. But I can't say if it looks correct. The even patina seems to suggest that all of the paint was removed before it started rusting- like it had been sandblasted down to bare metal. Would have to see pics.

First, MPWR, I certainly am taking your words in the spirit you wrote them - that's why I posted. If I didn't want anyone to tell me things I didn't want to hear, I'd've shut my door and windows and turned out the lights and yelled at anyone who asked to come in or see my models ;)

Second, I'm not trying to be elitist about what a "Hoodride" is, but I just know there's no way I can do it justice in one post. I guess I should've posted a link to what's exposed me to it the most: http://www.hoodride.com/nucleus/

Third - I'm not really going for anything I've seen before. I'm trying to do something completely different. Frankly - and I understand it's purely a style issue - I'm amazed how many people are against and to what degree people are against my rust/white two tone. I thought it was a rad idea and while I don't think my style fits everyone's taste, I'm usually not so out there I'm met with this kind of response. I don't want to do it differently, so perhaps I just need to figure some way to reconcile the two halves so it's more obvious that it was supposed to be this way. We'll see.\

Thanks for the input!

OK....now I'm slowly getting to what your original idea behind that is :screwy:

Like MPWR mentioned, it looks as if the entire bus was stripped and then the upper half was painted only - leaving the lower part exposed to the elements.

I suggest you should think about the following:

- build a diorama to go with it
>> this could look like: somebody polishing the white paint on the front of the car and another guy sanding the lower part of the car somewhere at the back end. you could make it look like a "poor" owner who can't afford to paint the whole car at once....but then - somebody who can afford to buy a split window bus without BAD rust (especially around the lower part) is not likely to be poor :uhoh:

The rust itself looks pretty good (emphasis on "pretty") - it's just too clean. Grind some holes, tears and scratches in the lower body, detail it and it'll look more convincing...

Hell...make one of the lower panels (e.g. the right rear corner) look like a new part that was just welded in...

The possibilities are endless....I'm really looking forward to what the others have to say :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Good luck with it!

I'm not trying to be elitist about what a "Hoodride" is, but I just know there's no way I can do it justice in one post. I guess I should've posted a link to what's exposed me to it the most: http://www.hoodride.com/nucleus/
Cool, I appreciate your explanation. I realised in retrospect that I perhaps came across more heavyhanded than I otherwise would have- likely because of being a bit peeved about the 'look it up' bit.

Still, it would be usefull to hear what the concept means to you, and what of those ideas you're trying to carry through in this build.

If I didn't want anyone to tell me things I didn't want to hear, I'd've shut my door and windows and turned out the lights and yelled at anyone who asked to come in or see my models ;)
Funny, that's exactly what I usually do. 'Cept I usually throw my empty beer bottles at 'em while I'm yelling. :cya:

Back to the critiquing bit, I do think the idea needs something, as it's not standing up on it's own. Simply put, you may need to come up with a scenerio for why this van is finished the way it is, and find some way to communicate it- it's too damn confusing to look at without some explaination. Voyageur's idea of a diorama has merit- it can be a great venue to express an idea. (Honestly, my thought was something like one of those adverts on late night cable for the magic car restorers-in-a-bottle. Picture a dude in a lab coat in a junkyard: "We're here with this rusted heap and a bottle of new MegaUltra- watch what happens when I rub it on the roof of this beat up van!..." It probably cures male pattern baldness and tastes great on french fries, too.

And while I'm being philisophical-

If a Hoodride is a cared for well maintained VW with original (and possibly rusted finish), what's the difference in 1/24 of a model of a Hoodride and a model of a rusted out POS? Seems like it's not all that different than putting a model of a Ferrari on a table and saying "It's not just a model of a Ferrari- it's a model of a Transforma! It's really a robot that's transformed into a car! You can't tell because his disguise is good." How would you tell?

(Meanwhile, with regards to my philosophy, does it show that it's a thursday night before a holiday weekend, and I'm currently restocking my empty beer bottles to throw at people...? :rolleyes:)

But for better or worse, it does seem a case of having to play to your audience. It may be a cool idea, but for anyone else to get it you may have to decide on what the idea really is, and how to get it across.

My only critique would be to reduce the number of 'surface' rust, show a little more paint on the bottom half, and put some holes and other rough spots in the bottom. I'm seen ships and steel in a construction yard with a surface covered like that, but seldom a car.

Other than that, it looks good.

I've spent hours on the Samba.com website scouring it for pictures of weathered Type 2 Singlecabs; I'm slooooowly doing a "hoodride" style Singlecab. So I kinda know where you're coming from, kinda sorta think I know what you're after. They look killer w/the right weathered patina w/a few mechanical upgrades; a weathered/rusty paint job, slammed suspension and upgraded rolling stock. My singlecab will have one single color, but it will be very faded and there will be some dents, lots of paint that's faded through to surface rust, and perhaps some exposed bondo repairs. And a set of homemade Safari windows :sunglasse I may solder together a brass roofrack as well. My body is a resin AAM; I'm backdating it to a late '50's w/the tiny round taillights, and adding treasure chest doors on both sides (he put only one on the driver's side, which is wrong). I'm getting a Porsche 356 kit for parts (I need the wheels for my RS60) and maybe I'll figure a way to get that engine in my Singlecab. I want it to smell like a rusty old car.

My thoughts on the contrast of the shiny roof vs. the rusty lower section are the same as the others; they don't seem to work together-they look like they're meant for two completely different vehicles or models. There's a trend nowadays towards satin paint; I think if you want to keep it simple, but give it a "quickly reshot hoodride roof" look go w/a satin clear to knock the gloss level down a notch or three. If I owned a rusty 1:1 and I thought about reshooting the roof, and was keeping the rusty lower look at the same time I'd definitely go w/a satin finish. Think like it's 1:1; what would you do w/the real vehicle? Would you really reshoot just the roof and not the rest of the body? Most people would shoot it all one color, or shoot the easier-to-reach lower body. I think. There are no real rules, but you should do as much research as possible to have a roadmap in mind for the project. If you haven't seen Samba.com for all the old VW's for sale, you're missing out. You'll find plenty of weathered VW's to gain inspiration. Could be sensory overload too. Since they are classified ads, you'll always find new stuff there and should check back frequently. You can hone your search for exactly the years/bodystyles you are looking for.

I think it would look most trick if there were patches of faded original paint left on the lower body (or even a few patches of really aged bondo), and the roof paint be wearing very thin; start w/the roof base color the same as the lower body, lay a thin coat of the racing white, and then start sanding it carefully to expose the "rust". Then detail, use a wash, whatever, then perhaps even go over the whole thing w/a flat clear. Weathering should be quick, loose, and fun (there's a joke about women there but it's late and I'm tired :lol: ) Think about getting the "Instant Rust" kit they sell at Michael's, the stuff really works, as it makes real rust w/the iron in the paint. That combined w/washes and pastels really makes for some incredibly realistic weathering.

I like the idea of faded paint shining through...I'm thinking about MAKE LOVE - NOT WAR.

The guy-in-a-lab-coat-idea is great!

Havent posted for a few months but... Will, just so you know, and maybe you do, not to mention everyone else.

Im not familiar with the term "hoodride". But i do know that a German tuning shop built a MKI GTI that had I believe, Olive Green flat paint and used a completely rusted hood. The look went ape shit on VWVortex and others and became all the rage. I wish i wasnt lazy cus id find a pic of this GTI and post it for you. Anyhow, This idea has been taken to all extremes and i believe thats were this "hoodride" thing came from. At H2O and Waterfest last summer i saw a ton of variations of this rust/ paint combo. Pretty cool i think and your bus its reaaly that far from what i saw. To be honest, this trend is very similiar to the plaid headliner, engine cover trend. Blah blah blah, VWs are trendy, i own one now and i fall into trends. Im the smoked glass, stubby, small wheel guy. Anyhow, the point is, yeah, i like it, and its a real thing thats going on in the dub scene. Go with it.

Not my style, but I dig the idea.
As directed to your rusting... I think it looks too uniform.. As if someone striped the paint using a rag wiped big "O's" on the side of the van.
More or less I agree with : "There should be some paint leftover on the bottom, it's uncommon to find such a uniformly rusted car, especially with no oxidized paint that hasn't come off yet."
Suggestions: spray a thick coat of the intended original color on wax paper or what ever and crumple the dried paint. Weather it on where you think there should be some paint left. Dull it down with dull coat or flat clear before you continue rusting.
Holes, dents, metal lifting up are also commonly seen with rusted out cars.

I also agree with the diorama idea, hoodrides... hrm never heard of 'em before this thread.

HTH,
Steve

So, I think I should also give my comment.

First, the term 'hoodride' comes from a game plaid in meetings. You take an old hood from a beetle, put it upside down, attach a cable, put 1 guy to sit on the hood and 2-3 guys to pull the hood. The goal is to run and arrive first at the finish line, reaaalllyyy funny :grinyes: --> 'hood' 'ride'

Everybody here wrote interesting comments, but one thing you didn't think about -> fake rust. Some belgian guys (www.radikalbugz.com and http://radikalbugz.skyblog.com/ ) are into the hoodride scene, lots of their cars are rusted but only the body. Chassis, suspension, engine,... have been completly restored but not the outside (they are specialists in mounting 'airbag' suspension, and shortened front beam) To make it look like it comes out from the barn, they add new options like fender mirrors, fender skirts, robris,... all these parts are bought new and are chromed. They don't wait them to rust but with a secret mixture of paint they simulate rust.
I have a picture where you see them doing, if I find it back I'll post it here.

Also, at 2006 Vw Nat's in France, the shop 'Ocean Corner' had realised a rusted bus but there was not a gram of rust. This was only paint, made by a specialist working for cinema
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images_v2/002/532/923/20060529/dyn005_original_425_319_jpeg_2532923_926135cb4333f fe2efe10ed3fad2bfc0.JPG

This could be the idea for your diorama, someone putting fake rust on his van. You should just raise the rust level on the top and add a figure of a guy painting his van.
This is an idea but not a lot of people will understand, only the pure aircooled fans will understand, and I'm not sure everybody will do...

I would like to say more but my english vocabulary is limited, why you just not learn french :lol:

And last but not least, Radikalbugz fuck purists :devil:

http://radikalbugz.skyblog.com/pics/74571044_small.jpg


PS: the Golf Freakmech is talking about is from a belgian shop www.wolfsburgstore.be and the owner is pilpil (nickname)
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4703/copiededsc0003mh1.jpg

PS: the Golf Freakmech is talking about is from a belgian shop www.wolfsburgstore.be and the owner is pilpil (nickname)
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4703/copiededsc0003mh1.jpg

AH, thanks soooo much Deedlit,I knew you would come through! There are some great pics of this car in front of a falling down barn but yes this IS the car i spoke of. It was definitely the car that started the trend in the US! Thanks for letting us know where the "hoodride" thing comes from also! You are the god of V-dubs!

PS, Note the "stretch-walls" in the rear. Very cool! LOL

I have a picture where you see them doing, if I find it back I'll post it here.


Found them back, from Super Vw Mag - november 06

http://imajr.com/th/Rust_-_Radikal_Bugz_-_1_77536.jpg (http://imajr.com/Rust_-_Radikal_Bugz_-_1_77536)

http://imajr.com/th/Rust_-_Radikal_Bugz_-_2_77537.jpg (http://imajr.com/Rust_-_Radikal_Bugz_-_2_77537)

Click for bigger pics :)

that golf looks badass

"dude" unless you have some helpful advice on how to make rust please dont say anything, i know the golf is badass, its not like its a thread on it, its a thread for VW buses. :smooch:

Thanks everyone else for the input. I'm still considering what I'll do. Suffice to say there'll be considerably more experimenting on the weathering and a lot more thought on the top. We'll see. All input was very appreciated!

Hey willimo.

I'm not a huge fan of hoodride (nor a purist) but I am pretty familiar with the fine patina finish you're after.

You could rough up the plastic and paint it like you did, give that a light sand with medium grit and then hit it again with paint. One of the biggest (toughest) parts of the finish is the texture.

You could also throw some squadron putty on there in some areas, usually where cancerous rust would likely hit an area of a bus (under the tail lights, for example) and give a shot of primer. Just an added detail us VW enthusiasts and owners would appreciate. You know, a little bondo here and there.

I have a really good idea of what you're after, and the colors look great, but the thing that'll really set off the patina-look would be the texture. As for the "recent" paint on the top portion, i'd remove any form of sheen from it to give it the appearance of fading. Rattle canning a car usually looks like crap after being in the sun for a week or 2. A month at best. Faded, lacking any reflective properties whatsoever.

In regards to the comment about the "uniformity" of the rust, it's true. Sorta. I think it looks fantastic (on your model), and there's a few hoodridden buses in my city that have a really uniform patina. Almost as if it were controlled.

I would say, keep it as is, maybe dumb down the finish up top a little. Most hoodrides are so poorly taken care of, they put the money into beer and gas and not so much painting (or masking for that matter) anything on the car.

Looks like it's a great start. Look forward to seeing what you decide to do.

oh, sorry, as far as adding some patina, try wetsanding it with rusty water, that should work, and adding thin peices of rusty steel where plastic is should work, i didnt mean to go off topic like that

as far as adding some patina, try wetsanding it with rusty water, that should work,

How, exactly, should that work?

Will, have you tried Rustall? I tried it on some inconspicuous places on my 2CV chassis and I was pretty impressed with it. The effect builds up slowly with several coats so you can control the weathering process quite well.

I have a spare bottle if you have trouble getting it.

Or better yet, try doing what your doing:screwy: Man, go talk to some Military guys but i think youve got it going on.... whatever i guess:banghead: