10w30 oil vs 20w50


capriceowns
03-19-2007, 12:20 PM
I have a flat tappet cam in my engine, so the zddp additve is important, the shell rotella has a lot from what i heard but is getting changed, so I emailed the valvoline tech place about their street/race oil VR1 for its ZDDP content

they said it has 1200 ppm in each bottle, which is the same as the rotella.

Its sold in 10w-30 and 20w50. Is there any advantage in a performance engine to a thicker oil?

silicon212
03-19-2007, 12:31 PM
Thicker oil is harder to pump than thinner oil, so unless you live in a hot climate, the 10w30 will rob your engine of less power.

capriceowns
03-19-2007, 02:22 PM
Thicker oil is harder to pump than thinner oil, so unless you live in a hot climate, the 10w30 will rob your engine of less power.
so 10w-30 is not good in hot climates? i thought it was the other way around

silicon212
03-19-2007, 04:53 PM
Heavier oil will hold up a little better in high temp extreme use.

hotrod_chevyz
03-19-2007, 04:57 PM
If you run 10w30, by the time your due for an oil change the 10w30 is broken down to the point where you might as well not have any oil in it at all. Depending on the motor, some motors you cant run 20w50 because they have crap for oil circulation.

I wouldnt own a motor that "cant" run on 20w50.

Blue Bowtie
03-19-2007, 05:20 PM
Contrary to what the number might indicate, SAE 20W oil is not twice as viscous as SAE 10W oil. 10W has a Kinematic viscosity of 32 S, while 20W has a Kinematic viscosity of 46 S. That's only one of the significant flaws of the antiquated SAE lubricant viscosity rating system. For example, as you may or may not be aware that 75W gear oil has the SAME viscosity as 10W engine oil. The difference between 75W and 80W gear oil might not sound like a lot due to the misleading SAE numbering, but 80W gear oil has over TWICE the viscosity of 75W gear oil (32 vs. 68). And 85W gear oil has almost FIVE TIMES the viscosity of 75W gear oil (32 vs. 150).

10W30 uses 10W oil as its base stock, and has a base oil Kinematic viscosity of 32. It requires polymer fortifiers to achieve stability of 68 basis points over its expected operating temperature range (32-100 S). 20W50 uses 20W oil as its base stock, and has a base oil Kinematic viscosity of 46. It requires polymer fortifiers to achieve stability of 174 basis points over its expected operating temperature range (46-220 S), or nearly three times as much fortifier.

As we know, thermoelastic polymer fortifiers can seem like they are helpful until they start to break down, and they are usually the first thing to break down in a lubricating oil. They are typically responsible for the majority of sludge formation in an engine, and having three times as much polymer in the oil can result in three times as much sludge by the time you are ready for a change.

If it were my engine, I'd find a PAO synthetic in the appropriate viscosity with zinc/phosphate EP additive and call it done.

Blue Bowtie
03-19-2007, 05:26 PM
What's confusing me is that you have an '87 Caprice, but somehow it ended up with a flat tappet cam. AFAIK, all SBC passenger car engines switched to roller cams in the 1987 model year. 1986 was the last year for the flat tappet in all but trucks (and the first year for the 1-piece RMS).

Did you change the cam or engine?

capriceowns
03-19-2007, 06:10 PM
What's confusing me is that you have an '87 Caprice, but somehow it ended up with a flat tappet cam. AFAIK, all SBC passenger car engines switched to roller cams in the 1987 model year. 1986 was the last year for the flat tappet in all but trucks (and the first year for the 1-piece RMS).

Did you change the cam or engine?

I have a different engine now. Its a 1981 350 that im building. Im kinda wishing it was a roller now...

the one problem I have with synethic is I cant afford all the racing ones that have the right ZDDP there all 11$ a quart and up :crying:

But what your saying BB if i find a synthetic oil in the 10w-30 that I can use go for it? otherwise go with regular 10w-30?

silicon212
03-19-2007, 06:31 PM
Run the Rotella-T oil. It still has the proper ZDDP additive levels and actually costs less than regular oil.

maxwedge
03-19-2007, 07:42 PM
Seconded on Rotella or true racing oil of some brand. Both have the old formula of zinc and phosphate additives, or the expensive synthetics. Used Quaker State racing then Amsoil racing in the pictured race car for 25 years, 7,200 rpm 525 hp engine, no bearing or cam issues during seasonal tear downs.

Blue Bowtie
03-20-2007, 08:13 AM
Standard Oil Delo, Mobil Delvac, and Shell Rotella are some of the oils which still contain over 1,000 ppm zinc and phosphor. Another option is to add a bottle of GM EOS oil additive or Comp Cams #159 Additive at every oil change.

capriceowns
03-21-2007, 11:44 PM
Standard Oil Delo, Mobil Delvac, and Shell Rotella are some of the oils which still contain over 1,000 ppm zinc and phosphor. Another option is to add a bottle of GM EOS oil additive or Comp Cams #159 Additive at every oil change.

is that safe to do, add a additive every oil change? I have 6quarts total for my engine filter is included in that.

silicon212
03-22-2007, 01:23 AM
Yes, it is totally safe. Add a can of EOS to every oil change.

capriceowns
03-22-2007, 01:40 PM
Yes, it is totally safe. Add a can of EOS to every oil change.

the GM EOS comes in 16 oz bottles only is that what your talking about? not the lifter prelube in a little 4 oz container.

silicon212
03-22-2007, 03:30 PM
Correct. As BB said, the Comp Cams stuff works well as well. I believe that comes in 4-oz bottles, but I've never used it for that. I run Rotella, myself.

capriceowns
03-22-2007, 04:45 PM
Correct. As BB said, the Comp Cams stuff works well as well. I believe that comes in 4-oz bottles, but I've never used it for that. I run Rotella, myself.

okay thanks guys. Im going to add the GM EOS 16 oz to my oil every time i change it, we stock it at my work and I can get it easily.

Thanks again. heres to my cam lasting, lol.

that wouldnt be too much additive will it?

daman
03-22-2007, 08:57 PM
If your going to run the RTS 5/40 i wouldn't use a whole bottle of EOS, the RTS alone would be fine it's a great GP III oil.

Here is a VOA from some RTS 5w40, as you can see it's loaded with what
a flat tappet needs;

Iron 1
Silicon 4
Sodium 3
Calcium 2884
Magnesium 10
Phosphorus 1164
Zinc 1311
All others 0
Viscosity 75.6
Flashpoint 410

daman
03-22-2007, 08:59 PM
I remember reading one month's Hot Rod magazine that goes into some pretty good technical detail about cam wear in high performance engines. According to the cam manufacturers they talked to, Rotella is the best oil for these engines due to the high phosporous content.

silicon212
03-22-2007, 09:11 PM
COMP recommends Rotella for all of their flat tappet applications.

capriceowns
03-23-2007, 02:30 AM
Im not using any of the diesel oils, Im using regular oil cause if i order it through my work plus the gm EOS 16oz bottle im still saving 2$ then if I went to autozone bought 7qts of rotella and a oil filter. for some reason the diesel oil is more expensive at wholesale price then reg 10w-30

the one question I need answered is, do I add all 16oz of the GM EOS or just half? im assuming all, but i like to ask questions lol

silicon212
03-23-2007, 03:35 AM
Follow the directions on the can. :D

daman
03-23-2007, 07:35 AM
Im not using any of the diesel oils, Im using regular oil cause if i order it through my work plus the gm EOS 16oz bottle im still saving 2$ then if I went to autozone bought 7qts of rotella and a oil filter. for some reason the diesel oil is more expensive at wholesale price then reg 10w-30

the one question I need answered is, do I add all 16oz of the GM EOS or just half? im assuming all, but i like to ask questions lol
The RTS will be more robust than any PCMO will be..$.02 good luck!!!

silicon212
03-23-2007, 12:02 PM
RTS = Rotella T Synthetic
PCMO = Passenger Car Motor Oil
VOA = Virgin Oil Analysis

comp
03-31-2007, 09:20 AM
Im not using any of the diesel oils, Im using regular oil cause if i order it through my work plus the gm EOS 16oz bottle im still saving 2$ then if I went to autozone bought 7qts of rotella and a oil filter. for some reason the diesel oil is more expensive at wholesale price then reg 10w-30

the one question I need answered is, do I add all 16oz of the GM EOS or just half? im assuming all, but i like to ask questions lol
Walmart sells Rotella here cheaper than the parts stores

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