98 rodeo transmission service or fluid flush?

I have a 98 4x4 Rodeo with 99K. I took the Rodeo to Cottoman's Transmission today and asked them to check flush my ATF. I have not had any problems with the transmission, everything seems to run just fine. But after reading some of the post on AF about transmission problems I figured I better get mine checked.

30 min. after leaving the Rodeo they called back. The mechanic took a sample of the fluid before draining it. It is "black, obviously burned" as the mechanic put it. They recommend not doing a flush, as the new ATF could do more damage due to the "cleaning detergents in the fresh ATF." Instead, they want to drop the transmission and service the entire unit. They also said that the only reason it is running well now is "due to the electronics, once those electronics have a problem your more likely to have serious issues with the rest of the trany." Or at least that is what cottmans says.
I couldn't decide on the spot, so I went in and picked the rodeo up and brought it home. I love this rodeo. Even after I get a new daily driver (someday in the faraway future) I will want to keep this Rodeo so I can put a lift kit on it and use it for what is made for...off road! :) So, those of you out there that know this transmission, should I bite the bullet and get the trans. serviced now? Should I wait till I notice a problem and then fix it? Maybe just give the flush a shot? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. -Derek

:frown: Id just have them do a new filter and replace the fluid lost in that process. Then drive it for a while and take it to a different shop. Just to me seems they are trying to take you:frown: Andie
sorry i missed to where you broght it home. Id take it to another shop and do the above

It's too bad the tranny wasn't better taken care of, but what's done (or not done!) is done. I would drop the pain, swap the filter/gasket, and refill. I'd drive a day or two and drain/refill. If there were no problems then, I think I'd do one more drain/refill in a few thousand miles. The detergents in new fluid will not harm the electronics. I can't see a good reason to drop the tranny if you have no issues, other than old fluid, now. Good luck!

+1 w/what Surferfletch stated.

I'm surprised the transmission has lasted this long. What ever you do I would NOT flush that transmission, but rather do partial fluid swaps with a new filter for sure & clean the pan.

Also, be sure you know (& read) the correct way to refill this transmission, it's very easy to underfill, which will cause more damage on top of what's already happening.

derek, here is what i would do.

yourself, take out the fill plug and check the condition of the fluid yourself. it could very well be *much* better condition than what they are leading you to believe. there are two plugs, one higher than the other, that's the one you want. take it out warmed up, running in neutral, otherwise you will have a bath. put the plug back in before you shut off the engine. depending on what you find, you now know whether to trust those guys or not.

they are right about not doing a flush, but not, imo, about not just doing a dropthepanandchange~3quartsandthefilter service.

want the best advice? imo, read this thread and look for the ALL CAPS of JLEMOND a genuine isuzu expert and ex isuzu tech and tech trainer. he says the regular flush most places do on a trans not having 'regular' fluid changes gives too much cleaning power all of a sudden which supercleans the built up varnish all of a sudden and that is what causes problems. doing partial fluid changes with the filter is better -- and better than not doing anything at all.
here, click on this link for the thread:

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?p=65414 (http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?p=65414)


what did they mean ?"""Instead, they want to drop the transmission and service the entire unit.""" if you don't know for sure, i'd appreciate it if you would call them and ask exactly and specifically what they would do and how much ... and post back with the info.

JLEMOND does say if you do a *complete and thorough* flush where everything is cleaned out totally, that is definitely good, but most don't do that and that's what leads to the problems.

100,000 miles on original fluid is not the end of the world. do some checking of the fluid condition yourself and let's go from there. at least the auto trans shop didn't just sell you a quicky flush on the spot....good for them.

//bc

That's a good discussion. I'll keep doing the partial swaps at 15K with the filter at 30K. I'm doing the torque converter pan this time, too, though.

yes, all the descriptions *should* say
drop the pans

//bc

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I can't believe the number of responses so quick!
TrooperBC, I check out the provided link. Jlemond made some good points. I think i will start with checking the quality of the oil for myself. The mechanic had some in a cup that he said was mine, but something about the situation just seemed fishy. I will then try another mechanic and have them drop the pan and change the filter, and only then just do a partial fluid flush every 10-15k. I believe the oil was last changed at 45k. Hopefully this will do the trick. Like I said, this is a ride I want to keep around even when I replace it with new daily driver. If I didnt rely on it for daily service I would risk doing this myself. I just can't afford the time requried if I make a mistake opposed to having a shop take care of it for me. If I run into any problems I will be sure to post again. Thanks again everyone for your help!

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I can't believe the number of responses so quick!
TrooperBC, I check out the provided link. Jlemond made some good points. I think i will start with checking the quality of the oil for myself. The mechanic had some in a cup that he said was mine, but something about the situation just seemed fishy. I will then try another mechanic and have them drop the pan and change the filter, and only then just do a partial fluid flush every 10-15k. I believe the oil was last changed at 45k. Hopefully this will do the trick. Like I said, this is a ride I want to keep around even when I replace it with new daily driver. If I didnt rely on it for daily service I would risk doing this myself. I just can't afford the carless time requried if I make a mistake opposed to having a shop take care of it for me. If I run into any problems I will be sure to post again. Thanks again everyone for your help!

100,000 miles on original fluid is not the end of the world.

//bc

For THIS particular transmission, I have to disagree. The GM 4L30-E does NOT like to go long between fluid changes, even 60k miles in between changes is way too long for my comfort.

but it's not the end of the world...

:) Hopefully since he wasnt having any problems with the trans, filter and fluid change will be all thats needed. That shop just sounds fishy to me. Seems they would have gone ahead and taken the cover off, and if it was really in need of overhaul, showed you the gunk in the pan and filter. Andie:)

but it's not the end of the world...

No, but it can feel that way if you're on a very tight budget and should something happen.

We lost our job when our late Toyota's headgasket went out for the 3rd time in it's life, along with other issues it was having - that was our work truck, and without it, we couldn't work - I can't even remember how many times in it's last 6 months with us it had to be towed for various reasons, from the job site.

We had no means of fixing it - financially; then, on top of that, the water pump & timing belt tensioner went out on the other work truck, the Rodeo; so, it boiled down to which one got fixed 1st. In the meantime, we both lost our jobs.

If it wouldn't have been for refinancing the house, we would've lost a lot more.

If your truck's are not your means of transportation while working, it's not so bad, but when your tools and everything you need TO work are in your truck, it gets scary when they're down.

Biggest cause of that Toyota's issues, we failed (before the 1st headgasket went) to fully update it's cooling system, it was 10yrs old at the time it 1st blew a cork. The 2nd time was due to the crappy job the mechanic had done in Las Vegas - and the 3rd time, I don't know, we gave up.

Trooperbc, when cottmans said: "they want to drop the transmission and service the entire unit". I asked him what that would include. He said that they would actually remove the trans. and then open it up and start looking for any parts that were too worn. I felt like he was just trying to make a fast buck by offering a job that wasn't really needed.
I took the Rodeo today to a friend of mine who works mainly on european cars. He recomended droping the pan, changing the fluid and pan gasket, then buttoning it back up and flushing the system. If I have problems after that, then get the trans. serviced. I am going to drop the car off sometime this week at a more reputable shop. Hope it doesn't rain while its in service, I will be riding the motorcycle to work the next few days!
Thanks again to everyone's responses. I will be sure to post the results once this is all wraped up.

Trooperbc, when cottmans said: "they want to drop the transmission and service the entire unit". ....He said that they would actually remove the trans. and then open it up and start looking for any parts that were too worn. I felt like he was just trying to make a fast buck by offering a job that wasn't really needed. .....

yeah, well really, the next thing is to tell you that you need a rebuild. you don't just take a thing apart and put it back together with the same parts.

good you're going somewhere else imo. and get them to drop *both* pans, the big main one and the little one that has the electronics in it, that way you get a little more of the old fluid out. did you get to look at the fluid, or are you just going to have the other place save you a sample. i'm real curious if a shop would blow that much smoke...

good luck

//bc

yikes...just caught up with this part........He recomended droping the pan, changing the fluid and pan gasket, then buttoning it back up and flushing the system. ....

i hope you will read or read that info from JLEMOND about engine flushes and these transmissions.


//bc

Yes, if they drop *both* pans, you can get 6 qts out; versus barely 3qts or so, if they just drop the big pan.

6 out of 9qt replacement, is pretty darn good.

FWIW - I've had this tranny flushed twice in it's life (170k+) time, in between partial fluid swaps without issue, BUT, I wouldn't choose to do it again.

Agree, there is NO need what-so-ever to drop the whole transmission, there's nothing wrong, just needs a fluid/filter/gasket swap.

Here was my experience with waiting too long to change the transmission.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=249528&highlight=transmission

And the ongoing problem I've had ever since.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=604594&highlight=transmission

If I had to do it over again...I'd top off the fluid and just let it be. At the very most, I'd drain the transmission, capture the fluid, change the filter and reuse the fluid that came out of it.:2cents:

Well, for the last several days the Rodeo has just been sitting in my driveway waiting for me to take it into a new shop. Good thing my motorcycle is reliable! I made it into a new shop today. I had them drop the pan so i could see what was inside. Black fluid and over a 1/2 inch of metal on the magnet. Plus tons of copper and silver colored 1/16inch flakes scattered all over the rest of the pan. It was a mess. They had the Rodeo on the lift and I was able to see that the seal next at the transfer case had been slowly leaking. I didn't expect to ask them to drop the trans.. but after realllllly debating it I finlay decided to have them drop the trans. and see what had been causing the metal flakes. This is the first time i have ever realy gone against the advice of any topic on this forum, so that just added to making the decision a tough one. There were so many flakes and they were just larger than i have seen in other trans. The shop verified they would use all Isuzu parts and gaskets, and seemed to be be pretty reasonable guys, and they give a 3 year 36K warranty on work/parts. I'll be sure to post more as I know more. I should get car back by Monday.

Oh, I had one more question actually. When it is cold outside, like below 32F, the shifter won't always come out of PARK. I can hear a solenoid like clicking come from under the center console of the car, it is actuated every time i press on the brake. Eventually if i wait till the car warms up it goes into gear fine. Whats up? Is something freezing shut? Where do i tell the mechanic to look? Thanks too anyone who has the ability to read my long ramblings!

Yes, i know this is a way old post, but I got an PM question, so I thought I would post my response.

My torque converter had overheated and burned itself up. In the process it had fried my trans fluid. The fried fluid acted like an acid on all things plastic. In addition, the magnet in the bottom of the trans fluid pan had a very large collection of small metal flakes. I had to have a complete rebuild of the trans. $3K, w/ a two year warranty at a Cottmans (now AAMCO) transmission shop. The warranty was a bit $-x-tra, but worth it, i have had it back twice since the initial work was done, both times due to hard shifting. I recently had the rear end rebuilt as well, that was another $1K with a 3 month warranty. When on the rack you could see the rear end rotate down about 1 1/2 to 2 inches when the accelerator was pressed. Required all new bearings, seals and races. Fortunately the gears were ok, or it could have been another 500-1,000. According to the technician who worked on my vehicle the limited slip in the 4x4 doesn't make these cheap vehicles to fix. Hope this information is helpful. Feel free to ask any follow up questions. The new thing as of recent seems to be an issue with the linkages, it doesn't want to come out of park. It is an intermittent problem, and AAMCO is claiming there is not problem. My warranty expires in April, as much as enjoy driving this vehicle, I may be selling it very soon. Its just too expensive to keep repairing. -Derek

I know it's painful investing that much money in a truck with low market value, but to me it's better than having a car payment. My first choice wouldn't have been Aamco but what's done is done.


I know that TC's can go bad, but I've never read of that happening on your particular year.