99 Windstar battery draining


Tanker06
03-10-2007, 04:01 PM
First post, longtime lurker....

99 Windstar, 3.8L, abt 80K. Battery died a few weeks back of old age, put in a
new one. It ran fine for a few weeks, then it died at church one night. I went,
jumped it, it ran fine on the way home. Next morning when I went out to go to
the trainstation, nada. "Click, click, brrrrr......."

Swapped out the alternator with a known good one, same deal. Would jump,
ran fine, charge showed right around 14.2V on the multimeter while running.
But if it sat for any amount of time, it was back to 'clicky, clicky..."

If the battery is charged up, and the cables disconnected, it holds a charge,
no problem.

Reading here, it sounds like I had a parasitic drain. Hooking up a test light between
the disconnected ground and the terminal, you get a fairly bright light. Start
pulling fuses gets no result until Fuse #6, which dims the light a bit, but it's
still got a healthy glow to it. Get down to Fuse #16, a 10amp, labeled in the
Owner Guide as "Cluster, Rear Electronic Module", and pull that, and the light
drops to a very weak glimmer with a 'clicking' noise coming from the firewall
area.

In the other direction, if you leave Fuse #6 connected, and pull #16, nothing
happens.

I'm getting frustrated - am I going in the completely wrong direction, or what?
Any ideas?

Wife is getting frustrated with having to take me to the train so early in the A.M.
so she'll have a car to get around in since her buggy is offline.

DRW1000
03-10-2007, 04:27 PM
I think you are on the right track.

Are you saying that you need both #6 and 16 pulled to reduce the current?

What is Fuse # 6 for?

catvents
03-10-2007, 06:34 PM
I just had this type of problem recently and this seem to be the brake light switch ( at the brake pedal). While I was not inside of the van, the brake lamps went on and I have also noticed that these lamps went on when I just touch a little bit the brake pedal with my hand. I don't know for you but if you have mentionned that the fuses that you remove are related with the rear electronic module, I would certainly look at the brake switch as the brake lamps circuit pass throught this r.e.m.

Tanker06
03-10-2007, 10:15 PM
I think you are on the right track.
Are you saying that you need both #6 and 16 pulled to reduce the current?
What is Fuse # 6 for?
Yes, both must be pulled to get the circuit to power down.

Fuse #6 is a 15A, and controls the radio, remote keyless entry and rear seat radio controller.

(The other options available - power sliding doors and CD changer aren't on my vehicle.)

Tanker06
03-10-2007, 10:23 PM
I just had this type of problem recently and this seem to be the brake light switch ( at the brake pedal). I don't know for you but if you have mentionned that the fuses that you remove are related with the rear electronic module, I would certainly look at the brake switch as the brake lamps circuit pass throught this r.e.m.
Hmmm.... Good idea, but in looking at my fuse chart, it says that the brake lights
are controlled by Fuse #7.

When I took out that fuse, the light level never changed a bit.

catvents
03-10-2007, 10:41 PM
Hmmm.... Good idea, but in looking at my fuse chart, it says that the brake lights
are controlled by Fuse #7.

When I took out that fuse, the light level never changed a bit.

Positive current is always present to the lamps (99 and up models) and if I'm not wrong this pass throught your #9 fuse which protect that circuit. When you apply the brake, negative go to your lamps via the rear electronic module. (throught fuse 16). You could try to unplugged the brake switch at the pedal and see what happen, before doing other test, and see if you still have this drain.

DRW1000
03-11-2007, 08:42 PM
Yes, both must be pulled to get the circuit to power down.

Fuse #6 is a 15A, and controls the radio, remote keyless entry and rear seat radio controller.

(The other options available - power sliding doors and CD changer aren't on my vehicle.)

Just wonder about the buzzing noise you hear. Is your radio on a timer? IE Does the radio have power for a while after you shut off the engine - until it times out or until you open a door? This could be the relay that is controlling this circuit and perhaps it is in the fuse box under the hood.

Tanker06
03-11-2007, 10:18 PM
You could try to unplugged the brake switch at the pedal and see what happen, before doing other test, and see if you still have this drain.
Hey, it's worth a try.... since I'm not up on the location of this switch, where would it be located?

("Switch-Locations for Dummies" description, please, as I plead not quite 100% ignorance on this
topic, but not too far behind...) :icon16:

Tanker06
03-11-2007, 10:23 PM
Just wonder about the buzzing noise you hear. Is your radio on a timer? IE Does the radio have power for a while after you shut off the engine - until it times out or until you open a door? This could be the relay that is controlling this circuit and perhaps it is in the fuse box under the hood.
Yes, the radio does have the timer that allows the radio to play for a certain amount of time until it either times out, or you
open the door.

I'd considered the fuse box under the hood, but hadn't messed with it yet, as fiddling with the under-dash fuses had yielded
the above results. That'll be next, I guess, if this doesn't pan out.

catvents
03-12-2007, 12:29 AM
Hey, it's worth a try.... since I'm not up on the location of this switch, where would it be located?

("Switch-Locations for Dummies" description, please, as I plead not quite 100% ignorance on this
topic, but not too far behind...) :icon16:
For the brake pedal switch, just follow that brake pedal, you will see this switch, that is in contact with the pedal; you can disconnect the small harness directly from the switch,
BUT DO NOT FORGET TO RECONNECT IT before your drive, it is really a matter of safety.

Tanker06
03-14-2007, 09:21 AM
For the brake pedal switch, just follow that brake pedal, you will see this switch, that is in contact with the pedal; you can disconnect the small harness directly from the switch,...
Well, tried that, and it's a no-go. Current is still being drawn, so that's not it.

This is getting so annoying, and wifey isn't a happy camper about not having her vehicle.... :banghead:

12Ounce
03-14-2007, 10:43 AM
Which fuse box are you working in? The one underhood .... or the one in the cabin?

Tanker06
03-14-2007, 11:34 AM
Which fuse box are you working in? The one underhood .... or the one in the cabin?
So far, just the one in the cabin. As I've stated in my first post above, the only fuses
that get 'results' in reducing draw was #6, which from what I've read is a minor draw
in itself (the manual suggests pulling that fuse if the van is going to be parked for
more than a month)(and pulling that fuse only dims the test light a bit).

Then if you pull #16, which is listed as "Cluster, REM", the light drops to a very low
flickering, but also produces a slight 'clicking/buzz' noise. But if you leave #6 in place,
pulling #16 gets no result.

So I don't know if I'm chasing a non-existent lead, or what. And I don't have the $$
right now to just take it to the dealership and bend over for what I'm afraid they'd
charge me to track down the problem..... :frown:

Any suggestions from those in the know, or who might have a troubleshooting book would
be greatly appreciated. I'm wondering if the REM (where is this located?) might be
bad, or a wiring diagram might tell me what all is connected to this (REM) to enable
me to disconnect/isolate various assemblies, and maybe figure out what the culprit
is here.

Catvents suggested that I disconnect the brake-switch, as it had been a recent cause
for such an issue on his van recently, but that wasn't it.

12Ounce
03-14-2007, 11:46 AM
Fuse #16 (10amp) feeds terminal #11 on the instrument cluster
...and terminal #3 on the rear electronic module (REM).

Fuse #6 (15amp) feeds terminal #1 on right power sliding door module
.... and terminal #1 on left power sliding door module
.... and terminal #10 on rear radio control
..... and terminal #9 on radio
.... and terminal #11 on remote keyless entry module
.
.......................if I read the diagram correctly.

I think the REM is located on the right side underneath, near RR wheelwell (or is that the trailer tow module????).

12Ounce
03-14-2007, 12:42 PM
OK, looking at diagrams again ... the REM is probably located inside the rear quarter trim panel.

... it controls just about "everything" on the rear ... interior/exterior lamps, liftgate locks, fuel pump and sender .... but not the rear wipers.

Tanker06
03-14-2007, 01:32 PM
Fuse #16 (10amp) feeds terminal #11 on the instrument cluster
...and terminal #3 on the rear electronic module (REM).

Fuse #6 (15amp) feeds terminal #1 on right power sliding door module No power slider
.... and terminal #1 on left power sliding door module No power slider
.... and terminal #10 on rear radio control Have
..... and terminal #9 on radio Have
.... and terminal #11 on remote keyless entry module Have
.
.......................if I read the diagram correctly.

I think the REM is located on the right side underneath, near RR wheelwell (or is that the trailer tow module????).
Don't have the tow package (that I know of)

Tanker06
03-14-2007, 01:38 PM
OK, looking at diagrams again ... the REM is probably located inside the rear quarter trim panel.

... it controls just about "everything" on the rear ... interior/exterior lamps, liftgate locks, fuel pump and sender .... but not the rear wipers.

Now that I think about it, I do remember reading something in a Ford Bulletin about the jack (which sits
inside the right rear quarter trim panel) sometimes pinching wires for the fuel pump, that lead to the REM.
So that makes sense, and will make it easier to get to than crawling up underneath... (providing I
don't tear the paneling all to hell and incur the wrath of Mrs. Tanker!) :nono: :rofl:

Damn, I was afraid that it controlled the fuel pump.... As far as leads going into the REM from up front
(not talking about wires going out to lights, etc., is there just one lead, or several?

I'm wondering if I can unplug the wiring harness going into the REM (from the "front" for lack of a better
term) to see if that eliminates the drain?

I'm thinking (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that I can do this, and the light goes out, that'll tell
me that the drain is coming from either the REM, or one of the assemblies that it feeds. (Rear lights
and fuel pump/sender, as you stated above.)

Thoughts? (And MUCH thanks for your help!!!) :grinyes:

12Ounce
03-14-2007, 04:38 PM
I don't see anything wrong with your logit ... as a test. Of course, you can expect the PCM to go crazy and send codes when you disconnect the REM ... but they will go away when you get hooked-up again and a relearning period expires.

The control of the vehicle is very distributed. The "main brain" is the instrument cluster, then the PCM, the key gizmo (for security)... followed by all the other modules. (The REM also controls the rear heat/ac ... I forgot this).

The REM and the FEM each get: a power feed, a ground feed, and a "twisted pair" for communication with the PCM and instrument panel. This saves a lot of copper wire between the front and the rear of the vehicle.

Tanker06
03-22-2007, 09:12 AM
The REM and the FEM each get: a power feed, a ground feed, and a "twisted pair" for communication with the PCM and instrument panel. This saves a lot of copper wire between the front and the rear of the vehicle.
The REM controls the rear lights, heat/ac, etc. - do these assemblies have separate plugs
that connect into the REM, so that they can be individually replaced if faulty, or do they all
plug into a massive wiring harness that must be replaced if one of the wiring assemblies go bad?

(I'd THINK that each assembly could be isolated or replaced individually, but we are talking
about Detroit electrical engineers here.....) :screwy:

Does anybody have a wiring diagram that shows what all plugs into the REM that they could
scan and e-mail me a copy? I would SO appreciate it..... Tanker06@aol.com
Or post it someplace that I could download it.

Trying to find a good source of manuals around here is like trying to find a Slurpee in the Sahara! :banghead:

pwrman
04-25-2007, 09:53 PM
My 2000 is having the same problem. I am pulling about 700mA when it is shut off. This started happening the day after the rear wiper motor stopped working. There was one thread I found with this same problem and the wiper motor was a cold draw trying to set itself in the park position. I changed the battery and disconnected the motor to see if this takes care of the problem.

The second thread was a TSB issued: http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/fordwindstar/1363.html

This may be what you are experiencing. It entails the PCM to be reprogramed $99.00 when I called the dealer to see if it was covered.

aviacionlight
06-16-2007, 12:29 PM
Any news for this tread? i have the same battery drain problem, any help will be apreciated.

Thanks.

aviacionlight
06-19-2007, 01:25 PM
Were the REM is located? on my winstar 2001

Tomb stone
06-24-2007, 12:36 PM
Well, now my 2000 SEL is killing the battery is left for a few days without driving. It will drain the battery completely! The lights won’t even come on dim. I did notice something though; every time I hook the charger up to it, there is a relay clicking under the hood. To me, this would indicate that the circuit is charged, even though the car is off. The book calls this relay # 303 “SSP1 Relay” on page 174 of the Owners Guide. I could not find any information on this circuit in the Haynes. Does anyone know what this relay energizes?

aviacionlight
06-25-2007, 10:47 AM
I also have an ABS and a Brake Light problem on my 2001 windstar. All star one morning six months ago the brake light does not go off wen i unlocked the parking brake handle, i have to stop apply and unlook the parking brake and the light goes off it have to do almost a week then the light still always on.

One month latter the ABS light turns on, i check and clean all wheel sensors and wire connectors, check the brake liquid level, check the brake presure switch, check for leaks and nothing.
It could be the wire that goes to the parking brake switch?
what´s the correct voltage of the wire?
someone have a diagram indicating were that wire goes?

Thanks.

aviacionlight
06-25-2007, 01:00 PM
I also have an ABS and a Brake Light problem on my 2001 windstar. All star one morning six months ago the brake light does not go off wen i unlocked the parking brake handle, i have to stop apply and unlook the parking brake and the light goes off it have to do almost a week then the light still always on.

One month latter the ABS light turns on, i check and clean all wheel sensors and wire connectors, check the brake liquid level, check the brake presure switch, check for leaks and nothing.
It could be the wire that goes to the parking brake switch?
what´s the correct voltage of the wire?
someone have a diagram indicating were that wire goes?

Thanks.

Sorry this message it was for another tread "ABS and Brake Problems" but i have both drain battery an ABS/brake lights problem too.

Checking the inside fuse box i feel the relay #1 and #4 are very hot w/key off, is this normal? the two front doors were open, removing fuse #16 (instruments group) produces clicking noise on these relays, i will close all doors and let one hour to see if the relays turns cold or stay hot.
Please need to know whats the voltage on the parking brake wire switch.

Thanks

michaelcorea
10-27-2008, 07:33 PM
do you have a blown third brake light buld

pwrman
10-28-2008, 02:42 PM
Found the problem, it was a bad rear wiper motor. It was stuck and not seating the wiper blade, so when the van was turned off it was tring to park the wiper thus draining the battery. Replaced the motor and have not had any further problems.

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