Hello to all,

I have an 89' Camry with the 4 banger and I was wondering if that new Mobil 1 5W-20 synthetic oil can be used in the engine with no ill effects?:screwy:

Currently I use M1 5W-30 and have experienced a small amount of oil consumption ( about 1/3 quart per month ) with good results. My goal is getting the best mileage outta the lady.

Any advice is aprreciated.

rimfire,22

rimfire,22,

Your oil consumption will probably increase slightly with the 5W-20 oil. Since you are seeking better fuel mileage, you might achieve about 1/2 mile per gallon more, if that. If the oil consumption increases, you will have to add more oil between oil changes; this at about $6 a quart for the Mobil1. It's really a trade-off. IMHO, I would just continue to do what you are doing.

Mike

rimfire,22,

Your oil consumption will probably increase slightly with the 5W-20 oil. Since you are seeking better fuel mileage, you might achieve about 1/2 mile per gallon more, if that. If the oil consumption increases, you will have to add more oil between oil changes; this at about $6 a quart for the Mobil1. It's really a trade-off. IMHO, I would just continue to do what you are doing.

Mike


Mike,

Thanks for your reply. Here in the city of the angels the gas price is increasing several dents/cents per week instead of the usual couple here n' there. Within the next couple weeks regular gas will be over $3 bucks and it's become not a funny issue anymore. For the money of M1 per quart it's worth the chance/experiment to see if any additional savings can be acheived.:banghead:

Instead of dealing with gas price out Mayor and Governor talk about spending billions on car pool lanes and tow roads.:screwy: :banghead: :evillol: :2cents: What a rip-off for us poor consumers.

rimfire,22

was wondering if that new Mobil 1 5W-20 synthetic oil can be used in the engine
===
Just my 2 cents, but I would not be putting 20 weight oil in an engine designed for 30 weight.
If you do harm the engine, it's going to be to late to change back.
I know synthetic oil has higher film strength but to me wouldn't be worth the risk.

===
Just my 2 cents, but I would not be putting 20 weight oil in an engine designed for 30 weight.
If you do harm the engine, it's going to be to late to change back.
I know synthetic oil has higher film strength but to me wouldn't be worth the risk.

Dan,

Thanks for your reply also. I like to hear it all from as many people as possile before I decide to try this out. According to my manual it should accept this kind of oil of all the ranges depending on the temperature/climate. If you stress caution can you elaborate on why? Constructive please.

rimfire,22

I have used 5W-20 Mobil1 in my '96 5S-FE with no ill effects for around 6,000 miles. My mileage varies so much from tank to tank, depending on how much city driving I do, that I can't tell if it made any difference in my mileage or not. I have been getting quite good mileage when I am on the expressway alot (not positive it was the change in oil weight from 5W-30), but I am not sure of the reason. Might or might not have been the oil weight change.

I have used 5W-20 Mobil1 in my '96 5S-FE with no ill effects for around 6,000 miles. My mileage varies so much from tank to tank, depending on how much city driving I do, that I can't tell if it made any difference in my mileage or not. I have been getting quite good mileage when I am on the expressway alot (not positive it was the change in oil weight from 5W-30), but I am not sure of the reason. Might or might not have been the oil weight change.

Brian R,

Thank you for your posting. I may just decide to give it a try. personally I too don't think 5W-20 synthetic would be too thin for my 89' 4 banger.

I am curious about your last paragraph? "Not positive it was the change in oil weight from 5W-30" Did you mean there's not much difference between the two oil weights? If it was you are right in my mind.

I'll be ready soon for my next oil change so I may just ask about the oil since my dealership carries M1 5W-30.

Take care,

rimfire,22

I meant that I have done other things to my car to increase the gas mileage and I haven't tried to modify one thing at a time to give good assignment to any changes I measure. The oil weight change probably had some effect, but I don't know that it did or how much.

I meant that I have done other things to my car to increase the gas mileage and I haven't tried to modify one thing at a time to give good assignment to any changes I measure. The oil weight change probably had some effect, but I don't know that it did or how much.


Brian,

I understand where your coming from now :-) Here in Los Angeles I need all the help I can get. Again I just may decide to give it a try. Thanks for the reply.

rimfire,22

Just remember that Toyota doesn't advocate using 5W-20 in your engine.

Just remember that Toyota doesn't advocate using 5W-20 in your engine.


Brian R,

OK then is there a really big difference between 5W-20 weight oil and 5W-30?

rimfire,22

I don't know what you would consider "a big difference". There is some difference. To me, the 5W-20 is a superior oil since it has a smaller difference between the cold and hot viscosities and thus employs less VI improver (polymer that imparts the multi-vis rating). The less VI improver, the more base oil in the formulation, which makes it more stable.

There is a significant difference in hot viscosities also, but it is a matter of opinion as to whether it is a big difference or not.

I don't know what you would consider "a big difference". There is some difference. To me, the 5W-20 is a superior oil since it has a smaller difference between the cold and hot viscosities and thus employs less VI improver (polymer that imparts the multi-vis rating). The less VI improver, the more base oil in the formulation, which makes it more stable.

There is a significant difference in hot viscosities also, but it is a matter of opinion as to whether it is a big difference or not.


Brian R,

I know something about what you talked about in your last statement. Personally since Toyota doesn't advocate using this oil it's just better I stayed with the M1 5W-30 instead of the other. Thanks for your posting.


rimfire,22:wink:

I don't feel the oil change will increase a lot of the mileage. According to my research experience with the oil formulation, as long as the cold cranking and pumping test(5W or 0W) are passed and kinecmatic viscosity (30 or 40)at 100C is in the reange, you can use the oil for your car. the thing you are considering is how this lubricant protect you engine from varnish forming, soot forming and wearing. the gas mileage is not directly related to the oil you added.
One good thing about the synthetic oil is that it's viscosity index is high, which means that the viscosity of the oil doesn't change that much when your engine gets warm and this will keep the antiwear film between the metal surface.

I don't feel the oil change will increase a lot of the mileage. According to my research experience with the oil formulation, as long as the cold cranking and pumping test(5W or 0W) are passed and kinecmatic viscosity (30 or 40)at 100C is in the reange, you can use the oil for your car. the thing you are considering is how this lubricant protect you engine from varnish forming, soot forming and wearing. the gas mileage is not directly related to the oil you added.
One good thing about the synthetic oil is that it's viscosity index is low, which means that the viscosity of the oil doesn't change that much when your engine gets warm and this will keep the antiwear film between the metal surface.

arfa1980,

I understand a little about what your saying. Most of it goes over my head. I'm more of a try it and see what happens guy. :wink: I like synthetic oil since I tried it in this car. It appears to stay cleaner longer than dino oil for sure. Why I can't say but it does.:grinyes: Since my quest for better mileage is not directly related I guess it's just better to driver slower and smoothly. I'm starting to wonder if different brands of gasoline might have some impact. Hmmm maybe?

rimfire,22

My goal is getting the best mileage

There's a lot of focus on fuel economy these days, but actually is a small component of the overall cost of the car.
I've found it better to just keep up with traffic and not worry too much about mileage. Works out better than becoming a hindrance to other cars by accelerating gently and coasting to stops. I average around 22 mpg on the '94 4 cyl. with mostly city and some highway and I wind up the engine as needed. Your '89 should do a bit better with the smaller engine.

Synthetic oils tend to perform well at extremely low tempertures and they are stable at extremely high temperatures. they will have longer life time. The viscosity index is high which may give less viscous drag during starting and provide thicker oil film for better sealing and wear prevention. . If you are in a cold area, synthetic oil will perhaps reduce the fuel consumption. But if you don't have a frequent cold start, you only need to assure sufficient viscosity at normal operating T to provide suitable lubricating film.
SInce your engine is pretty old, the condition inside the engine could be not as good as a new one. And you already are using 5W, which can perform at
-25C. I will say the fuel type maybe have more impact on the gas mileage. it is a very complicated issue. you can try to see if it works better.
Thanks

Synthetic oils tend to perform well at extremely low tempertures and they are stable at extremely high temperatures. they will have longer life time. The viscosity index is high which may give less viscous drag during starting and provide thicker oil film for better sealing and wear prevention. . If you are in a cold area, synthetic oil will perhaps reduce the fuel consumption. But if you don't have a frequent cold start, you only need to assure sufficient viscosity at normal operating T to provide suitable lubricating film.
SInce your engine is pretty old, the condition inside the engine could be not as good as a new one. And you already are using 5W, which can perform at
-25C. I will say the fuel type maybe have more impact on the gas mileage. it is a very complicated issue. you can try to see if it works better.
Thanks

arfa1980,

Here in California I'll try anything minus driving to get better mileage. Currently gas is over $3 bucks and still rising.

My main reason I sue synthetic oil is to keep the oil as clean as possible before changing it during the scheduled oil change. I don't extend my driving miles but instead use the oil and change it as per the maintenance schedule. The inner workings/cleaniness is also important too me. I was told that synthetic oil keeps the inner parts cleaner compared to conventional dino oil.

Like I said before I'll have to slow down and keep the tires and filter proper. Branded gasoline is very high in price. I currently use Costco gasoline as it's usually a dime cheaper than Chevron, Conoco 76, Shell etc. These gaolines are much better BUT terribly expensive. Here in California were all in pretty bad shape. I'm even considering driving more during the nighttime just to see if the cold air might have some small impact on MPG.

rimfire,22

Am I to conclude from all this discussion that thinner oil helps improve gas mileage? Or is it more a function of the synthetic oil as opposed to the viscosity?

I've been using 20W-50 conventional oil with changes every 2500-3000 miles in my high mileage gen 1 Camry to reduce leakage.

Occasionally I've used Castrol Syntec 15W-40 blend in the past and I didn't notice much of a difference in anything. The car performed normally in every observable way with that oil.

here are my suggestions since you are really worried about overall cost of maintaining your car:
stop using synthetic oil for oil changes. My opinion on the matter is that since you are changing at the regular interval anyway, you won't see any difference with using regular oil. Synthetic is great and all, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with regular oil. The only reason I would consider using synthetic (keeping cost in mind) is if I wanted to extend oil change intervals. Aside from that, I think it to be unnecessary in most applications.

Stop using cheap gas. I think quality gas does make a difference. Fuel injectors, to me, are more important to fuel economy than the type of oil you are using. 'Bad' gas=dirty injectors. Save our money on the synthetic oil, spend it on quality gas, run a bottle of injector cleaner through it every oil change. I honestly think you'll see a difference.

Also, if you have a lot of extra weight in your car, take it out. makes a HUGE difference.

for reference, my 98 2.2L with ~145k will still get at least 25 city, average 26-27. With a gentle foot I can get 31-35 highway, average 32.

here are my suggestions since you are really worried about overall cost of maintaining your car:
stop using synthetic oil for oil changes. My opinion on the matter is that since you are changing at the regular interval anyway, you won't see any difference with using regular oil. Synthetic is great and all, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with regular oil. The only reason I would consider using synthetic (keeping cost in mind) is if I wanted to extend oil change intervals. Aside from that, I think it to be unnecessary in most applications.

Stop using cheap gas. I think quality gas does make a difference. Fuel injectors, to me, are more important to fuel economy than the type of oil you are using. 'Bad' gas=dirty injectors. Save our money on the synthetic oil, spend it on quality gas, run a bottle of injector cleaner through it every oil change. I honestly think you'll see a difference.

Also, if you have a lot of extra weight in your car, take it out. makes a HUGE difference.

for reference, my 98 2.2L with ~145k will still get at least 25 city, average 26-27. With a gentle foot I can get 31-35 highway, average 32.


xfeejayx,

I use synthetic oil for longevity. My question was the weight of the newer generation oils that go light. 5W-20 is what I wonder will save me a few bucks. Perhaps yes...perhaps not. Currently I use M1 5W-30 weight. Mainly I check my tires for proper pressure and keep the air filter checked when the oils changes. As for cheap gas here in Los Angeles there is no such thing. Gas cost so much that off brand gasoline cost just a few cents lower than good branded versions. No matter what I may have to tank up with I always run a bottle of "Techron" through my cars every couple months as a precaution.

rimfire,22

Am I to conclude from all this discussion that thinner oil helps improve gas mileage? Or is it more a function of the synthetic oil as opposed to the viscosity?

Any increase in gas mileage will be due to the change in viscosity. There is also a significant difference between synthetic and dino oil in oil lubrication quality as the oil ages and degrades. The synthetic oil is still new at 3k miles after the oil change. The dino oil is more viscous at this mileage, and has lost some of its lubricating properties due to shear break-down and oxidation. The anti-oxidants protect it for the most part, but not totally. Synthetic oil is vastly superior to dino oil in resisting oxidation and shear.

Any increase in gas mileage will be due to the change in viscosity. There is also a significant difference between synthetic and dino oil in oil lubrication quality as the oil ages and degrades. The synthetic oil is still new at 3k miles after the oil change. The dino oil is more viscous at this mileage, and has lost some of its lubricating properties due to shear break-down and oxidation. The anti-oxidants protect it for the most part, but not totally. Synthetic oil is vastly superior to dino oil in resisting oxidation and shear.

Brian R,

Thanks for your posting. This is one of the reasons why I prefer to use a synthetic oil instead of dino.

rimfire,22

I'm even considering driving more during the nighttime just to see if the cold air might have some small impact on MPG.

rimfire,22

The cold air would likely have a negative impact on your MPG. :frown: :disappoin
the engine would take longer to heat up to normal operating temperature in cool weather than in warm weather.
an engine running at normal operating temperature gets better MPG than a cold engine.:2cents:

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY (1989 Camry owner)

The cold air would likely have a negative impact on your MPG. :frown: :disappoin
the engine would take longer to heat up to normal operating temperature in cool weather than in warm weather.
an engine running at normal operating temperature gets better MPG than a cold engine.:2cents:

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY (1989 Camry owner)


JOET/CAMRY,

You could be right. I heard that since cold air is denser than hot it mixes better in the combustion chamber. Maybe it's just a wild guess/old wives tale or not.

rimfire,22